So why did JMM fight Chris John for 30k instead of Pac for 750k in '05?

[Violent Demise]

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

Who are you talking about? "They" Marquez was under Top Rank at the time. Nacho was Marquez's adviser. Murad Muhammad was Pacquiao promoter/manager. Pacquiao had a number of advisors and among them was Roach. The "purse" was 1.8 Million split between the parties. i.e. $900K each. Pacquiao ended up with a little over $300K from the purse. If Marquez only ended up with $100K, it went to his people. After that fight Marquez left Top Rank. After the Chris John fight Marquez was with GBP. Perhaps you have read what Pacquiao made from the first fight where people included his Philippine television rights and the like. I read a number of inaccurate figures quoteing Pacquiao earned $750k not the $650K you state. The reason I know this is because I followed some articles when Pacquiao was suing Murad Muhammad for screwing him out of his purse money. Murad Muhammad posted a lot and HBO also posted the purse split which was a first. (sorry don't have the link) I never believed what Murad Muhammad was saying because after that, they split up even though Murad Muhammad had an exclusive contract with Pacquiao.

I watched that fight with Chris John and there was no robbery. Marquez relies on counter punching for his offense. Chris John is an outside boxer and did exactly that beating Marquez in a points fight. It was a horribly boring fight. Marquez didn't do squat to earn a victory. He lost just as he lost to Mayweather.

What the hell are you talking about is more like it? I ain't talking about there purses in the first fight. I'm talking about why the 2nd fight didn't happen right away. Marquez was promised over a million dollars. They try to short him almost half a million. For a fight that was gonna be on PPV. And he was the champion.

And the John fight was a robbery. If you think those point deductions were legit than you need to go buy some muthafukkin glasses.

[UKPH]

VD no doubt that Beristein is not a good Manager then a Trainer, they could beat Pacquiao for the second time, and it could stop the Pac express if they were really confident to beat this guy they should accept the P750K rather going to Chris Johns turf and losing.

remember prior to Pac-Marquez I, Marquez cant even get a $650K purse without Pacquiao even with his 2 championpionship belts, he defeated Medina and Gainer still on that time Marquez is virtually unknown than Barrera and Morales, Team Marques should take the 750k.

[Hornfinger]

i think the weight will be the main stumbling block in why this fight doesn't happen. Pac will insist 147, Marquez will want 140 or lower.

I personallty think the fight should be at 140.

I would expact pac to win even though I am a marquez fan. Jaun has been in a lot of wars and is getting older.

I think the fight could happen but to make it happen I think Jaun will have to agree to pacquiao's terms which will make the fight unfair in Pac's favour. But why would that surprise anyone?

[fan johnny]

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

Who are you talking about? "They" Marquez was under Top Rank at the time. Nacho was Marquez's adviser. Murad Muhammad was Pacquiao promoter/manager. Pacquiao had a number of advisors and among them was Roach. The "purse" was 1.8 Million split between the parties. i.e. $900K each. Pacquiao ended up with a little over $300K from the purse. If Marquez only ended up with $100K, it went to his people. After that fight Marquez left Top Rank. After the Chris John fight Marquez was with GBP. Perhaps you have read what Pacquiao made from the first fight where people included his Philippine television rights and the like. I read a number of inaccurate figures quoteing Pacquiao earned $750k not the $650K you state. The reason I know this is because I followed some articles when Pacquiao was suing Murad Muhammad for screwing him out of his purse money. Murad Muhammad posted a lot and HBO also posted the purse split which was a first. (sorry don't have the link) I never believed what Murad Muhammad was saying because after that, they split up even though Murad Muhammad had an exclusive contract with Pacquiao.

I watched that fight with Chris John and there was no robbery. Marquez relies on counter punching for his offense. Chris John is an outside boxer and did exactly that beating Marquez in a points fight. It was a horribly boring fight. Marquez didn't do squat to earn a victory. He lost just as he lost to Mayweather.

What the hell are you talking about is more like it? I ain't talking about there purses in the first fight. I'm talking about why the 2nd fight didn't happen right away. Marquez was promised over a million dollars. They try to short him almost half a million. For a fight that was gonna be on PPV. And he was the champion.

And the John fight was a robbery. If you think those point deductions were legit than you need to go buy some muthafukkin glasses.

The "They", is the crap Bernstain is trying to sell which comes from Marquez' Promoter. Shaw was just trying to get Marquez pants. Since Marquez wouldn't fight Pacquiao, Arum was trying to get Marquez to fight Morales. But the fools went off on their own to Indonesia and would still have lost without point deductions. The negotiation failure was all on Marquez and really had little to do with Pacquiao.

[milmascaras1]

who gives a fuck who is "running the show". pacquiao uses this "running the show" crap to get unfair advantages at catchweights. this is bullshit and most of you pactards know it!!! all pacquiao is, is a prima donna who has to have advantages over his opponents. by the way, when has he ever faced a younger, fast, in his prime boxer? he's slowly beginning to get recognized as a damn fraud along with freddie roach and bob arum. deceiving the public with these fantastic wins over weight drained fighters but won't fight fighters like marquez, alexander, bradley or other fast, young fighters.

[:::PSL:::]

who gives a fuck who is "running the show". pacquiao uses this "running the show" crap to get unfair advantages at catchweights. this is bullshit and most of you pactards know it!!! all pacquiao is, is a prima donna who has to have advantages over his opponents. by the way, when has he ever faced a younger, fast, in his prime boxer? he's slowly beginning to get recognized as a damn fraud along with freddie roach and bob arum. deceiving the public with these fantastic wins over weight drained fighters but won't fight fighters like marquez, alexander, bradley or other fast, young fighters.

Seems to me Juanita is giving a fuck about it. If Pacquiao says "bow down and beg like a lil' bitch that you are", Juanita will do it in a heartbeat. Yes, right now, he is that desperate. And the other thing, Manny won a flyweight championship for christ sake. I'm sure his larger opponents wouldn't mind climbing down a pound or two for multi-million dollar deal ey?

Common sense compadre.

[generalbulldog]

who gives a fuck who is "running the show". pacquiao uses this "running the show" crap to get unfair advantages at catchweights. this is bullshit and most of you pactards know it!!! all pacquiao is, is a prima donna who has to have advantages over his opponents. by the way, when has he ever faced a younger, fast, in his prime boxer? he's slowly beginning to get recognized as a damn fraud along with freddie roach and bob arum. deceiving the public with these fantastic wins over weight drained fighters but won't fight fighters like marquez, alexander, bradley or other fast, young fighters.

Easy, if his opponents think it's unfair. Then don't sign the deal. Simple as.

And Pac is doing the same thing of "running the show" that legends such as De La Hoya and Chavez did. You know weight draining their opponents for the titles. Must have learned it from them.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Pacquiao has been on the other end when someone else was "running the show". He had to agree to the terms of ODLH and go up two weight divisions in order to have the chance to fight him. And he was at a disadvantage with regards to the purse split which was understandable. Now that he is THAT MAN, I can't blame him for taking advantage of it.

If his opponents agree to the terms of the Pacquiao camp, then so be it. But the rewards will be several-fold if they manage to defeat him. Manny can't stay on top forever. At some point, he will fade and another boxer will emerge on top and will continue the same behavior. That's the cycle of life in boxing.

[hardcore_crash]

Does anyone have a link to the post fight interview??
Because if I remember correctly, the interpreter did not do so good a job.

[Violent Demise]

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

Who are you talking about? "They" Marquez was under Top Rank at the time. Nacho was Marquez's adviser. Murad Muhammad was Pacquiao promoter/manager. Pacquiao had a number of advisors and among them was Roach. The "purse" was 1.8 Million split between the parties. i.e. $900K each. Pacquiao ended up with a little over $300K from the purse. If Marquez only ended up with $100K, it went to his people. After that fight Marquez left Top Rank. After the Chris John fight Marquez was with GBP. Perhaps you have read what Pacquiao made from the first fight where people included his Philippine television rights and the like. I read a number of inaccurate figures quoteing Pacquiao earned $750k not the $650K you state. The reason I know this is because I followed some articles when Pacquiao was suing Murad Muhammad for screwing him out of his purse money. Murad Muhammad posted a lot and HBO also posted the purse split which was a first. (sorry don't have the link) I never believed what Murad Muhammad was saying because after that, they split up even though Murad Muhammad had an exclusive contract with Pacquiao.

I watched that fight with Chris John and there was no robbery. Marquez relies on counter punching for his offense. Chris John is an outside boxer and did exactly that beating Marquez in a points fight. It was a horribly boring fight. Marquez didn't do squat to earn a victory. He lost just as he lost to Mayweather.

What the hell are you talking about is more like it? I ain't talking about there purses in the first fight. I'm talking about why the 2nd fight didn't happen right away. Marquez was promised over a million dollars. They try to short him almost half a million. For a fight that was gonna be on PPV. And he was the champion.

And the John fight was a robbery. If you think those point deductions were legit than you need to go buy some muthafukkin glasses.

The "They", is the crap Bernstain is trying to sell which comes from Marquez' Promoter. Shaw was just trying to get Marquez pants. Since Marquez wouldn't fight Pacquiao, Arum was trying to get Marquez to fight Morales. But the fools went off on their own to Indonesia and would still have lost without point deductions. The negotiation failure was all on Marquez dd really had little to do with Pacquiao.

Nacho is known as an honorable man. He does not bullshit around. His words carry more weight than Mr. Yesterday I was lying today Im telling the truth Bob Arum. Only a fool takes Arums word as truth. The man lies so much its damn near language to him. Facts are very clear in this matter. Basking in the glow of a great fight which was Marquez-Pacquiao 1. Arum HBO and the Marquez camp quickly agreed to a rematch where both fighters would get 1.2 million. It was than that the Pacquiao people approached Arum and told him he didnt wish to fight Marquez again so quickly. He instead wanted to face Erik Morales who was coming off a loss in his 3rd fight with Barrera and who many believe was on the decline. Thats when Arum went back on his word and low balled Marquez. Knowing that the proud Marquez was not gonna let himself be lied to and would most likely decline. Which he did.

[KananKrus]

To find out why JMM fought Chris John offshore in Indonesia for 30K rather than fight Pac for 750K after the first fight, one would be better off going straight to the horse's mouth.

Checking out the post fight interview gives you an insight unto the minds of the horses themselves! (pardon the pun) The interview is the one Larry Merchant conducted for both fighters... and with little imagination, you get a real feel for emotions that goes with the responses that both Pac and JMM were saying regarding a rematch right after their brutal encounter.

Anyone a bit techie (I am not one) or maybe PacStraightLeft, can provide for a viewable version... perhaps

The video tho' that I have viewed was an HBO telecast included in a Filipino broadcast/ABS CBN and had bits with Chino Trinidad in it.

Both men then had interpreters with them handling their responses for the HBO telecast. I zoomed in to the bit were both men were asked about their willingness for a rematch. Pac and JMM both said yes to a rematch but it is in the verbiage where the telltale is.


It goes as follows...

Pac VS JMM Post Fight Interviews

Larry Merchant to Pacquiao: You were supposed to fight Erik Morales if you won this fight, since it’s a draw, do you want to do a rematch?

Manny Pacquiao through an interpreter: There should really be a rematch! so they will know who really is the best between the two of us, who really is the winner between the two of us!

Larry Merchant to Marquez: Do you want a rematch?

Juan Manuel Marquez through an interpreter: Yes. I don’t feel I need a rematch, because I feel I won this fight! But if we need to do it again, I feel I want it, let’s do it!

Curiously, it was JMM who actually said that he did not need a rematch since he felt he'd already won it, while Pac on the other hand was itching to get it on again, just to establish once and for all who really won the fight. At that moment, (IMO), he felt that he was robbed of a win, and he was not alone with that thought, Harold Lederman, providing HBO's unofficial scorecard, had Pacquiao winning, seven rounds to five, 115-110.

Draw your own conclusion, as to mine... my impression is that one was angry (Pac), while the other one was relieved (JMM).

[Fenster]

To find out why JMM fought Chris John offshore in Indonesia for 30K rather than fight Pac for 750K after the first fight, one would be better off going straight to the horse's mouth.

Checking out the post fight interview gives you an insight unto the minds of the horses themselves! (pardon the pun) The interview is the one Larry Merchant conducted for both fighters... and with little imagination, you get a real feel for emotions that goes with the responses that both Pac and JMM were saying regarding a rematch right after their brutal encounter.

Anyone a bit techie (I am not one) or maybe PacStraightLeft, can provide for a viewable version... perhaps

The video tho' that I have viewed was an HBO telecast included in a Filipino broadcast/ABS CBN and had bits with Chino Trinidad in it.

Both men then had interpreters with them handling their responses for the HBO telecast. I zoomed in to the bit were both men were asked about their willingness for a rematch. Pac and JMM both said yes to a rematch but it is in the verbiage where the telltale is.


It goes as follows...

Pac VS JMM Post Fight Interviews

Larry Merchant to Pacquiao: You were supposed to fight Erik Morales if you won this fight, since it’s a draw, do you want to do a rematch?

Manny Pacquiao through an interpreter: There should really be a rematch! so they will know who really is the best between the two of us, who really is the winner between the two of us!

Larry Merchant to Marquez: Do you want a rematch?

Juan Manuel Marquez through an interpreter: Yes. I don’t feel I need a rematch, because I feel I won this fight! But if we need to do it again, I feel I want it, let’s do it!

Curiously, it was JMM who actually said that he did not need a rematch since he felt he'd already won it, while Pac on the other hand was itching to get it on again, just to establish once and for all who really won the fight. At that moment, (IMO), he felt that he was robbed of a win, and he was not alone with that thought, Harold Lederman, providing HBO's unofficial scorecard, had Pacquiao winning, seven rounds to five, 115-110.

Draw your own conclusion, as to mine... my impression is that one was angry (Pac), while the other one was relieved (JMM).

I don't think you've read this situation right. Marquez was champion. So it's simply a case of - Pac needed a rematch because he came away with NOTHING. Marquez didn't need a rematch because he still held his titles, and believed he won the fight. Simple as that

[KananKrus]

I don't think you've read this situation right. Marquez was champion. So it's simply a case of - Pac needed a rematch because he came away with NOTHING. Marquez didn't need a rematch because he still held his titles, and believed he won the fight. Simple as that

I understand that Marquez held two belts at that time... but with Pac, there was never a need for him to win belts in order for him to get big fights.

The belts only became important for Pac once he was in the pursuit of attaining the novelty of having the most belts in multi-weight categories. Marquez' belts were meaningless to Pacquiao, and actually, Michael Buffet introduced Pac as the recognized people's featherweight champion (whatever that means).

After the announcement of the draw, Buffet even mentioned that both protagonists keep their own respective belts. By all intents and purposes, Pac was the draw, and "the one" being groomed to further boxing, than it was the other way around. Marquez, if he had won, would have easily taken Pac's place and possibly a match win against Morales', Pac's prospective next opponent, could have cemented his niche in the pay-per-view market.

Likewise, at this point in time, it was Marquez who needed to painstakingly add aggressiveness to his staple counter style fighting, not only to get this fight hitched against hot prospect Pacquiao, but also in order for him to increase marketability for future interests.

Getting back, JMM was the minor star in this affair, only his huge ego made him think otherwise. This ego up to now, is also part of the reason that JMM rubs Pac the wrong way. Pac in a poor attempt at humor, once said that the reason Marquez lost to PBF despite his drinking his own pee was because he didn't eat his poo to go with it! LOL. Obviously the attempt at humor had pangs of viciousness to it that is almost always less revealed in public.

So the crown meant nothing really if any of neither Pac nor JMM had the bigger thing in mind for a juicier progression into the future. The win was the most coveted in order to stake the bigger claim in the PPV arena in the sport.

Hence, a rematch was first and foremost!

That is if you get the drift...

[hardcore_crash]

That dumb mother***er interpreting did a bad job.
Marquez immediately said ,"YES i want a rematch, i feel i won; there is no "revenge" in a fight i won scored as a draw" roughly like that.

Same interpreter getting Chavez REALLY upset backstage Chavez/DLH 2 post fight.
For guess what.... misinterpreting.

[KananKrus]

The reason JMM chose the Chris John fight over a rematch with Pacquiao (IMO) is the flawed vision of Nacho over-riding that of Juan! Huh?

The manager was pulling rank above the worker! Huh?

Perplexing!

Initially from the translation of Juan’s responses in the after-fight interview of HBO’s Merchant, it seemed that his response to the question for a rematch lacked the intensity to qualify it as a “determined” positive response, hence the wrongly perceived JMM reluctance for an immediate rematch.

It turns out, the Spanish language translator was inadequate at his job and misquoted big-time! Good thing… an enlightening explanation was supplied for by “hardcore crash”, one of our esteemed forum members here, and quoted as follows:

That dumb mother***er interpreting did a bad job.
Marquez immediately said ,"YES i want a rematch, i feel i won; there is no "revenge" in a fight i won scored as a draw" roughly like that.

Same interpreter getting Chavez REALLY upset backstage Chavez/DLH 2 post fight.
For guess what.... misinterpreting.

I am now leaning to, that Beristain firmly believed that it was a brilliant management move fighting Chris John in Indonesia cause beating him should potentially establish Juan Manuel as “the” powerhouse in the lower-weight classes in the sport!

How brilliant a move is it? Or was it at all…

Was it because the Indon was the biggest name out there…
Would a convincing win against unbeaten Chris John, getting this “particular” name on his resume translate into JMM getting all the US pay-per-view action he needs in the future…

Now if you’re Juan Manuel Marquez, would it not be your best interest, if you have come to reflect on this, to resist this madness the stringiest just to avoid a possible case of futility?

Did he actually see wisdom despite all of Nacho Beristain’s seemingly “unsound” reasoning that he as the fighter who shall “labor” to pull all of this off, saw that should they win was a small price for the “potential” upside career- wise that it will unfold?

If true as regarded that wise as any, Juan Manuel is*, he probably chose the seemingly harder route with the $30K paycheck than the Pacquiao fight with $750k “insult” of a price tag, just to spite Bob Arum. Was that big of a treat…the ability to show Bob Arum off that rewarding to have done this just for spite!

This seem all baffling and yet all but the accepted affirmative on this account!

Is it not easier for many, and reasoning-friendly, to just think that for a radical change, the real reason was simply that Juan Manuel was unenthused to face Pacquiao… too soon.

A career move destined to hell, if unfruitful. Too close a call that the potential upside is not even worth the looming risk!

Well, we know that is not true...

I'd leave the experts and insiders to enlighten the "all walks of life Joe". Unbaffle the baffled, LOL!


* (college degree in accounting?)