A little Secret

[Scrap]

Weve seen PBF on the pads looking at the camera looks effective, and in a way it is. When hes on the flash stuff basicaly hes doing Plyometrics working on feel and touch his coach is working just as hard by hittings Floyds gloves at different distace ,feel reaction.Now the good bit, you feel that he could do it with his eyes shut, and he could. If he did thats the next step to becoming even faster Thought this would be of interest

[Chris Nagel]

It reminds me of Wing Chun/Kung fu practitioners going through their 'sticky hands' drills.

Why close both eyes instead of just the dominant eye?

[Andre]

It is to me ;
as you know we used to practice chi sao 'set moves' nose to nose with the least amount of rection or movment so we could simultaniously defend and attack off of very slight movements; after it becomes a reaction you do it closed eyes or blindfolded just on feeling the oppositions intent. That builds your contact reflexes between your forearms into your brain faster and you naturally deal with it in the shortest fastest moves.Controling when theres a threat releasing with a strike up any holes you feel in their defence.
Its great for flowing around grappling arms like in a clinch on the ropes allowing you to feel your way out and flow with the force then explode out.

[Andre]

Hi CHris ,
thats a good point.specially for boxing stuck in a one sided stance.
The kung fu exercize as you know has many stages of progression;
We used to start the exersize off with only one stance or one body side facing out like boxing and fencing.for a few months
But would then go onto both sides
then nose to nose square shouldere so that both arms are stiking range and both are a threat
then to slight shifts in stance which would change contact range when going from square into a half facing stance so that the sublties of one handed range and two handed range are covered fully,
then it went further utilizing full footwork into full front stances in and out from square nose to nose
into full free fighting.

But you know we never covered the dominant or the weaker eye

[Chris Nagel]

I think I can now see where you got some of your ideas about closing the distance right off a duck, slip or when your opponent is bringing back their hand while keeping your shoulders square to your opponent.

[Von Milash]

Chris,

Kung fu is a joke. Bunch of slap happy morons that look like two pigeons fighting over the same stoop.

[Chris Nagel]

Hey Von,

I see it differently. I think that a lot of its' concepts and techniques translate very well into boxing. I guess you could say the same thing about anything. eg. "Wrestling is stupid. It's just a bunch of sweaty idiots trying to hug each other into submission."

See what I mean, it just a matter of how you look at it.

[Von Milash]

id rather get into it with a kung fu guy with zero force behind his shots than a wrestler who can slam your head into the pavement.

most combat arts experts will say the same thing about kung fu. that and karate always distill down to very crude boxing.

[Andre]

Chris,

Kung fu is a joke. Bunch of slap happy morons that look like two pigeons fighting over the same stoop.

Thats funny and only looking at it from one perspective.
I can see where you are comming from to a degree especially in the ring with rules and gloves for protection .
Im not going to hang it on anyone for anything cause there was a karate master who killed so many bulls with his bear hands yet at the same time his style is limited in some applications.
Boxing has its limits as do all other styles .
Honestly my mate tore off someones knee cap who took a swing at him on the street he was practicing a northern kung fu style.
For a wing chun practitioner to be able to fight at his limit at the higher end of the art you have be fighting with finger tips to outreach someone who can only think in fists and you go for their eyes and all the soft targets so in reality you are off to jail if you use it.That is why you dont see it used in movies or in the titles.
I agree others in general hit much harder and thats relavent to many of the controlled fights with gloves and rules.
I cant dismiss anything , the mind is like an umbrella it only works properly when its open.

[Scrap]

Chris Youre shutting down the sense that slows you down. Andre, I like the umbrella very true

[StrictlySP]

Hi Scrap,
You wrote:

Weve seen PBF on the pads looking at the camera looks effective, and in a way it is. When hes on the flash stuff basicaly hes doing Plyometrics working on feel and touch his coach is working just as hard by hittings Floyds gloves at different distace ,feel reaction.Now the good bit, you feel that he could do it with his eyes shut, and he could. If he did thats the next step to becoming even faster Thought this would be of interest

No offense, but I disagree. When Mayweather works the pads like that with his uncle, it's simply "flash stuff" with no fight-functional application (sportive or otherwise). As far as this pad drill having any plyometric effect, there is none whatsoever. Plyometrics refers to exercise that enables a muscle to reach maximum force in the shortest possible time. Creating a plyometric contraction first involves a rapid eccentric movement (i.e. a muscle lengthening action) , followed by a short amortization phase (i.e. a brief transition period from stretching to contracting), then an explosive concentric movement (i.e. a muscle shortening action), which enables the synergistic muscles to engage in the myotatic-stretch reflex during the stretch-shortening cycle.

Two exercise examples that elicit a plyometric effect are clapping push-ups and vertical jump squats. In both these exercises, the targeted muscles are stretched before a concentric contraction thus "creating" more forceful and rapid contractions.

Anyway, take Mayweather's "no-look" pad work for what it is, a slick "parlor trick" for the cameras that's cool to watch...

Take Care,
Lito

[Andre]

Hi Scrap,
You wrote:

Weve seen PBF on the pads looking at the camera looks effective, and in a way it is. When hes on the flash stuff basicaly hes doing Plyometrics working on feel and touch his coach is working just as hard by hittings Floyds gloves at different distace ,feel reaction.Now the good bit, you feel that he could do it with his eyes shut, and he could. If he did thats the next step to becoming even faster Thought this would be of interest

No offense, but I disagree. When Mayweather works the pads like that with his uncle, it's simply "flash stuff" with no fight-functional application (sportive or otherwise). As far as this pad drill having any plyometric effect, there is none whatsoever. Plyometrics refers to exercise that enables a muscle to reach maximum force in the shortest possible time. Creating a plyometric contraction first involves a rapid eccentric movement (i.e. a muscle lengthening action) , followed by a short amortization phase (i.e. a brief transition period from stretching to contracting), then an explosive concentric movement (i.e. a muscle shortening action), which enables the synergistic muscles to engage in the myotatic-stretch reflex during the stretch-shortening cycle.

Two exercise examples that elicit a plyometric effect are clapping push-ups and vertical jump squats. In both these exercises, the targeted muscles are stretched before a concentric contraction thus "creating" more forceful and rapid contractions.

Anyway, take Mayweather's "no-look" pad work for what it is, a slick "parlor trick" for the cameras that's cool to watch...

Take Care,
Lito

Probably with the word polymetrics removed from the post the real intent behind it would imerge better as polymetrics may account for a snippet of what could go on.

Not that I understand all the meanings behind these new words.
do polymetrics stop when you close your eyes

I took the real issue behind the post to mean the links behind sight and reaction opposed to non -thought reactive speed and seeing -thought reactive speed; without any real mention of what can be achieved if other things are incorperated into it.

I tried to take the post one stage further into contact reflex /speed of reaction built up by taking away your sight.

Turns out I shouldnt have slipped the word Kungfu in there either

[Chris Nagel]

I'd have to disagree with you too SP. Notice that Floyd brings his right hand up to block everytime Roger throws a left at his head. The same is when he slips and uses his shoulder, etc. It's all responses, and Floyd and his uncle play off each other so well that it seems like just another parlor trick.

Though I agree that a lot of trainers will use the pads just to make their fighter's look good, when Roger and Floyd play off of each other with the pads, it transitions very well into FLoyd's fights. All those moves and reactions are being reinforced during the pad work. Now on the flipside in regards to those other fighters that are made to look good on the pads, that pad work doesn't carry into their fights.

Now if you look closely you can see a lot of subtle things that Floyd does. Those precise little shifts in his footwork, exit strategies, and flowing from one movement to another is brought out in that training. I'm not saying this to be patronizing, I'm saying that there's a lot more to it than what it looks like on the surface. Roger is a big contributing factor with Floyd's performance, because it's the man with the pads that determines the situation that is to be practiced.

[Scrap]

Sp, thanks for the response, but what they are doing is plometricaly based different psychodinamics but the same princable. Plyometrics cover a wide field. Theres the ones that as a rule give long term injuries, or another type implementing dynamic stretch routines with touch. Which I with the help of The institute of Sport hope to have on the market this year.They tell me it will put Sheffield in the forefront of Sports Science lets see, when all the dots are covered Saddos will be 1st with the news

[ThomasTabin]

Plyometrics, Psychodynamics? Now I'm dizzy.

I guess I tend to agree with Chris. The thing with pad work is that, to my mind, the objective is not to be a cardio work out but to sharpen response and reaction. For that reason I think pad work is best when its primarily intended to work on defensive reactions i.e he throws a hook, you block the hook. I think its less effective when its just hey punch over here, okay now punch over there. Is that how you plan on fighting? Everything you do in the ring is in reaction to what the opponent does. So therefore pad work should simulate the opponent's output as realistically as possible.

So I think Floyd's pad work is geared toward that philosophy. I think Roger should act more like a real opponent however. But at least the goal of it is to sharpen Floyd's ability to see things and react to them.

But if you want to see some real padwork. Check out Hopkins and Naasim Richardson. They do it better than anybody else I've seen. Its basically sparring and Richardson offers real targets that are based on actual in-the-ring situations. They move aorund and use the ring and they even clinch! Its not surpprising why Hopkins is so comfortable when he actually fights.