Top fighters out of every country

[Peter Som]

Another interesting and informative thread, thank you for the posts.

[frankenfrank]

so fucking what? boxrec has Yoan Pablo Hernandez as the 13th best fighter in the world, ahead of Miguel Cotto, Orlando Salido, Amir Khan, Gamboa, Nonito Donaire, and Tomasz Adamek, meaning their ranking system is pure shit, as I said keep rambling with your clueless bullshit, you're just making yourself look like a bigger dumbass

I disagree about Hernandez being ranked ahead of Donaire , and i doubt him being ranked ahead of Cotto & Adamek even though i don't clearly rule it out like u do . It is completely plausible that he is better than Khan even though i m not sure at it yet , don't know about Gamboa & Salido and don't feel like checking it right now , and i do agree that boxrec's rankings r Xtremely flawed as they don't consider d facts behind d records . But i do consider these facts whenever i know them , and u just couldn't give me 1 fact indicating RLopez' quality Xcept that he looked really good beating bums .
So did Carlos Zarate and Alfonso Zamora . And in Zarate's case i don't even count his losses 2 Pintor (not a real loss , i guess that it was a robbery) and Gomez (Gomez should have been DQed but since it was in his homeland he wasn't) , Zarate at least has 1 mediocre win over Zamora whom himself has a mediocre win over Pedroza . medicore in that Pedroza was not what he's made 2b due 2 him being 1 of d dirtiest ever and not winning big against his good opponents , and Zamora only has that 1 win that counts . So both Zarate and Zamora can b considered 1 hit wonders . RLopez does not even have that 1 hit . only 2 draws against Rosendo Alvarez .

back 2 boxrec and d main problem in its scoring system it is wrong but objective due 2 it being computerized so think Y does it has d "undefeated" Lopez ranked so low ?
True it shouldn't b treated as a reliable source 4 ranking but just try guessing d answer .
D answer is that it's because Lopez hadn't fought nobody and even a dumb computer could figure it out . Otherwise u'd Xpect d computer 2 count a seemingly flawless record in a more rewarding manner .

Their system is shit but not pure shit .
My way is less naive and yields different results as 1 can verify by comparing my top 10s of Mexico , Puerto Rico & Panama all of which i currently listed in d 2nd post of this thread .
I , boxrec and those other ppl that i in4med u about got 2 different results than each other , sometimes drastically different , but none of us has him in his/its top 10 of Mexico .

D problem with u is that u r all like 1 person using d same account , no judgement , only imitation of some role model "Xperts" who in reality r true dumbasses .
Stop imitating and replying like a bot , start reading d thread and my replies 2u because in some cases here it was obvious that u ignored my questions and my replies 2u .
U keep arguing about n unknown quantity needing 2b ranked higher than proven warriors .
when u were asked and then proven about both "El Nene" and Rosendo Alvarez u failed yet again at defending them and succeeded only at seemingly replying by simply posting a reply post . Based on content of replies in some of d cases it's like u quoted me and answered with a blank post .
Start acknowledging d truth because it is here 4u 2 read .

[ElTerribleMorales]

so fucking what? boxrec has Yoan Pablo Hernandez as the 13th best fighter in the world, ahead of Miguel Cotto, Orlando Salido, Amir Khan, Gamboa, Nonito Donaire, and Tomasz Adamek, meaning their ranking system is pure shit, as I said keep rambling with your clueless bullshit, you're just making yourself look like a bigger dumbass

I disagree about Hernandez being ranked ahead of Donaire , and i doubt him being ranked ahead of Cotto & Adamek even though i don't clearly rule it out like u do . It is completely plausible that he is better than Khan even though i m not sure at it yet , don't know about Gamboa & Salido and don't feel like checking it right now , and i do agree that boxrec's rankings r Xtremely flawed as they don't consider d facts behind d records . But i do consider these facts whenever i know them , and u just couldn't give me 1 fact indicating RLopez' quality Xcept that he looked really good beating bums .
So did Carlos Zarate and Alfonso Zamora . And in Zarate's case i don't even count his losses 2 Pintor (not a real loss , i guess that it was a robbery) and Gomez (Gomez should have been DQed but since it was in his homeland he wasn't) , Zarate at least has 1 mediocre win over Zamora whom himself has a mediocre win over Pedroza . medicore in that Pedroza was not what he's made 2b due 2 him being 1 of d dirtiest ever and not winning big against his good opponents , and Zamora only has that 1 win that counts . So both Zarate and Zamora can b considered 1 hit wonders . RLopez does not even have that 1 hit . only 2 draws against Rosendo Alvarez .

back 2 boxrec and d main problem in its scoring system it is wrong but objective due 2 it being computerized so think Y does it has d "undefeated" Lopez ranked so low ?
True it shouldn't b treated as a reliable source 4 ranking but just try guessing d answer .
D answer is that it's because Lopez hadn't fought nobody and even a dumb computer could figure it out . Otherwise u'd Xpect d computer 2 count a seemingly flawless record in a more rewarding manner .

Their system is shit but not pure shit .
My way is less naive and yields different results as 1 can verify by comparing my top 10s of Mexico , Puerto Rico & Panama all of which i currently listed in d 2nd post of this thread .
I , boxrec and those other ppl that i in4med u about got 2 different results than each other , sometimes drastically different , but none of us has him in his/its top 10 of Mexico .

D problem with u is that u r all like 1 person using d same account , no judgement , only imitation of some role model "Xperts" who in reality r true dumbasses .
Stop imitating and replying like a bot , start reading d thread and my replies 2u because in some cases here it was obvious that u ignored my questions and my replies 2u .
U keep arguing about n unknown quantity needing 2b ranked higher than proven warriors .
when u were asked and then proven about both "El Nene" and Rosendo Alvarez u failed yet again at defending them and succeeded only at seemingly replying by simply posting a reply post . Based on content of replies in some of d cases it's like u quoted me and answered with a blank post .
Start acknowledging d truth because it is here 4u 2 read .

Hernandez doesn't deserve to be ahead of any of the fighters I named, so you can't use Boxrec as evidence of Lopez being overrated then go ahead and say that the Boxrec rankings are flawed, they're flawed in every sense especially if they have Ricardo Lopez that low, as for blasting Sanchez, well he's basically IMO on the same level of someone like Ramirez, always fought the best but didn't beat the best, and I do read your posts and stop half way cause it's not the truth all I read is biased ignorant bullshit, all you seem to post is farfetched opinions that are based on opinions rather than FACT, ffs you said that Morales given his resume doesn't belong in the top 10 due to the fact that he has 2 stoppage losses, regardless of the fact that A) it was against Manny Pacquiao and B) that Morales was passed his best, you seriously need to LEARN what you're trying to talk about cause you're just coming off sounding clueless

[frankenfrank]

Hernandez doesn't deserve to be ahead of any of the fighters I named, so you can't use Boxrec as evidence of Lopez being overrated then go ahead and say that the Boxrec rankings are flawed, they're flawed in every sense especially if they have Ricardo Lopez that low, as for blasting Sanchez, well he's basically IMO on the same level of someone like Ramirez, always fought the best but didn't beat the best, and I do read your posts and stop half way cause it's not the truth all I read is biased ignorant bullshit, all you seem to post is farfetched opinions that are based on opinions rather than FACT, ffs you said that Morales given his resume doesn't belong in the top 10 due to the fact that he has 2 stoppage losses, regardless of the fact that A) it was against Manny Pacquiao and B) that Morales was passed his best, you seriously need to LEARN what you're trying to talk about cause you're just coming off sounding clueless

Sanchez' not like Ramirez , because Sanchez lost always by stoppage (Xcept 4 Calderon when he uncharacteristically lost by decision) . Ramirez won against Rosario and Whitaker and deserved 2 win vs Arguello as well and at least a draw in d 1st Rosario fight . "El Nene" always got his S drilled then handed 2 him . Ramirez was only stopped 1ce when he still was a novice from n Olivares body punch (and no1 2 verify if it was legit and not low) . "El Nene" made himself a name by being Sascha Grey like if u know what i mean . Then consider that d "best" that Ramirez fought were much better than d "best" that "El Nene" fought , sometimes beat and was never humiliated , except maybe 1 time , and "El Nene" , well , he was d Bukkake of his division .


Show me where i claimed that Morales does not belong in Mexico's top 10 so i can edit and fix it .
Would u ?

Whose posts r u replying 2 ? seemingly not some1 who posted in this thread .

[ElTerribleMorales]

Hernandez doesn't deserve to be ahead of any of the fighters I named, so you can't use Boxrec as evidence of Lopez being overrated then go ahead and say that the Boxrec rankings are flawed, they're flawed in every sense especially if they have Ricardo Lopez that low, as for blasting Sanchez, well he's basically IMO on the same level of someone like Ramirez, always fought the best but didn't beat the best, and I do read your posts and stop half way cause it's not the truth all I read is biased ignorant bullshit, all you seem to post is farfetched opinions that are based on opinions rather than FACT, ffs you said that Morales given his resume doesn't belong in the top 10 due to the fact that he has 2 stoppage losses, regardless of the fact that A) it was against Manny Pacquiao and B) that Morales was passed his best, you seriously need to LEARN what you're trying to talk about cause you're just coming off sounding clueless

Sanchez' not like Ramirez , because Sanchez lost always by stoppage (Xcept 4 Calderon when he uncharacteristically lost by decision) . Ramirez won against Rosario and Whitaker and deserved 2 win vs Arguello as well and at least a draw in d 1st Rosario fight . "El Nene" always got his S drilled then handed 2 him . Ramirez was only stopped 1ce when he still was a novice from n Olivares body punch (and no1 2 verify if it was legit and not low) . "El Nene" made himself a name by being Sascha Grey like if u know what i mean . Then consider that d "best" that Ramirez fought were much better than d "best" that "El Nene" fought , sometimes beat and was never humiliated , except maybe 1 time , and "El Nene" , well , he was d Bukkake of his division .


Show me where i claimed that Morales does not belong in Mexico's top 10 so i can edit and fix it .
Would u ?

Whose posts r u replying 2 ? seemingly not some1 who posted in this thread .

hahaha so now without seeing a single fight of his you can determine just on paper that Sanchez was no good, he was far from great just like Ramirez but was decent enough and only lost to top guys, difference though his wins were all his, unlike the gift given to Ramirez in France against Whitaker, the fact that you try to build up Ramirez to be better than Morales in any sense is an insult, seeing how Morales was a notch higher in every department, skill, talent, and resume, Vargas lost every fight he had by TKO (besides his loss to Mayorga), does that make him a bum? simply put I'm done going in circles cause well there's no point in arguing with someone who has no logic, and sir that's exactly what you are =/

[frankenfrank]

Hernandez doesn't deserve to be ahead of any of the fighters I named, so you can't use Boxrec as evidence of Lopez being overrated then go ahead and say that the Boxrec rankings are flawed, they're flawed in every sense especially if they have Ricardo Lopez that low, as for blasting Sanchez, well he's basically IMO on the same level of someone like Ramirez, always fought the best but didn't beat the best, and I do read your posts and stop half way cause it's not the truth all I read is biased ignorant bullshit, all you seem to post is farfetched opinions that are based on opinions rather than FACT, ffs you said that Morales given his resume doesn't belong in the top 10 due to the fact that he has 2 stoppage losses, regardless of the fact that A) it was against Manny Pacquiao and B) that Morales was passed his best, you seriously need to LEARN what you're trying to talk about cause you're just coming off sounding clueless

Sanchez' not like Ramirez , because Sanchez lost always by stoppage (Xcept 4 Calderon when he uncharacteristically lost by decision) . Ramirez won against Rosario and Whitaker and deserved 2 win vs Arguello as well and at least a draw in d 1st Rosario fight . "El Nene" always got his S drilled then handed 2 him . Ramirez was only stopped 1ce when he still was a novice from n Olivares body punch (and no1 2 verify if it was legit and not low) . "El Nene" made himself a name by being Sascha Grey like if u know what i mean . Then consider that d "best" that Ramirez fought were much better than d "best" that "El Nene" fought , sometimes beat and was never humiliated , except maybe 1 time , and "El Nene" , well , he was d Bukkake of his division .


Show me where i claimed that Morales does not belong in Mexico's top 10 so i can edit and fix it .
Would u ?

Whose posts r u replying 2 ? seemingly not some1 who posted in this thread .

hahaha so now without seeing a single fight of his you can determine just on paper that Sanchez was no good, he was far from great just like Ramirez but was decent enough and only lost to top guys, difference though his wins were all his, unlike the gift given to Ramirez in France against Whitaker, the fact that you try to build up Ramirez to be better than Morales in any sense is an insult, seeing how Morales was a notch higher in every department, skill, talent, and resume, Vargas lost every fight he had by TKO (besides his loss to Mayorga), does that make him a bum? simply put I'm done going in circles cause well there's no point in arguing with someone who has no logic, and sir that's exactly what you are =/

Xactly , "El Nene" was no good , and trying 2 seriously equate him 2 Ramirez is n insult .
Ramirez was rightfully awarded d decision over Whitaker .
Vargas was not a bum but far from great . I'd consider Vargas a lot better than Alex Sanchez and a lot worse than Ramirez .

[Spicoli]

You lost me at Julio C. Gonzalez should be higher than Ricardo lopez. That is just flat glue sniffing talk. Lopez quality shined through regardless of 'the no names' he fought and the ease with which you dismiss him is just flip. Forget that ten or so were former or future world champions and others ranked in the alphabet soup. Lopez did what your supposed to do vs top available comp if you a top p4p fighter...beat them all.Can people even name 10 strawweights? A division that wasn't even recognized until the 90's fully. Not knowing a guy or the network not knowing how to pronounce his name doesn't equate to them being a no name.

I love me some Carbajal. Always have, back to the Olympics until the end. He literally in company with Gonzalez put the division on near equal footing and respect to main stream fans. Carbajal was tied up in a needed trilogy after signing with King...who had Lopez stuffed under large ppv cards and the two on same bill a few times. I blame a King if anyone. Lopez wasn't quaking in his boots after watching Gonzalez turn boxer and pull off two albeit close bloody wins over Carbajal. They put him into full blown rebuild mode after that and IF those two had any chance of meeting it was around here. To think that Carbajal just goes out and flattens Lopez is wrong. It never happened, we'll never know but I think Lopez gets him. Lopez was just that damn good.

after RLopez watched Carbajal-Gonzalez 2&3 it is even supposedly more troubling Y didn't Lopez try 2 take on Carbajal or any of d names in d division above him . It's not that i consider weight jumping as d only thing that counts , but he fought no1 so he's only 1-2 notches above d nobodies that he fought . At least as far as proven facts go . This is what he proved , and u r speculating wildly if u think that his achievements against nobodies suggest anything on how he'd have done vs Carbajal / Gonzalez / Melchor Cob Castro . All of these names he did not fight . Yes they probably were "bigger" than him , but he proved himself less than JCGonzalez had . Gonzalez at least proved 2b durable against good opponents . RLopez had no good opponents , his best being Rosendo Alvarez , and it's circular . Or did u mean that Carbajal's management ducked RLopez ? they still had all d rest of those names that i mentioned 2 pick on .
Light flyweight was far more interesting than strawweight back then but he stirred away from it while fighting nobody . Beating nobodies can only maybe put 1 in d top 15 of his division during 1's time , but #3 all times p4p of his quite heritage loaded country ? R U serious ? I didn't list Gonzalez in my top 10 Mexicans , but he was tested and proven more than RLopez was . Did Gonzalez lose 2 nobodies ? no , just like Lopez had . So Y does Lopez deserve a higher ranking ? Maybe if Lopez fought fighters even on d caliber that Gonzalez fought , he could have been crushed by them . But u'll never know , b/c he never had . But u still ignore all my arguments and rank RLopez higher .

Honestly man, and everyones entitled to an opinion, but as they say across the pond you've lost the plot. You strike me as someone who literally keeps Boxrec as a screen saver and I'm not sure you have seen even half of the guys you so flippingly label as bums and no bodies. Watch Ohashi fight or Sorjaturong fight and tell me their bums. Not knowing a fighter and not recognizing a name are very different. I too wanted a Lopez "dream match" sooner and history is littered with guys you wanted to move up. Carbajal and Lopez were two that missed each other not from avoidance but the sport playing through as it were. Finito had yet to even make his U.S audience debut by the time Michael had beaten and then lose to Gonzalez and frankly peak. Up until that point Lt Fly and Minimum were very much in the same boat. They were indeed the adopted red headed step child of boxing and still to this day get scoffed at. Carbajal AND Lopez did nothing but give it a shot in he arm and demand over due respect in the lower weights. Wide speculation as you say is based on the history and style, ability, skill fighters have displayed and would work far better to boost your case than scanning through some stat sheet records and fast forwarding over you tube. I mean why didn't a Lopez "challenge" a Melchor Cob Castro Dear God man, thats just winging it. To think a Gonzalez, God rest his soul, should rank higher than the calibur and skill of a Lopez based on simply being durable, lasting the rounds albeit in a losing effort to some and springing an upset is just loony tunes bro. For fuck sakes your describing half the journeymen in the sport. What next, Iran Barkely top 10-15? How about an Oliver McCall? You can think what you want bud, keep keeping on, but the way you generalize and dismiss fighters is unfortunate and short sighted.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Hernandez doesn't deserve to be ahead of any of the fighters I named, so you can't use Boxrec as evidence of Lopez being overrated then go ahead and say that the Boxrec rankings are flawed, they're flawed in every sense especially if they have Ricardo Lopez that low, as for blasting Sanchez, well he's basically IMO on the same level of someone like Ramirez, always fought the best but didn't beat the best, and I do read your posts and stop half way cause it's not the truth all I read is biased ignorant bullshit, all you seem to post is farfetched opinions that are based on opinions rather than FACT, ffs you said that Morales given his resume doesn't belong in the top 10 due to the fact that he has 2 stoppage losses, regardless of the fact that A) it was against Manny Pacquiao and B) that Morales was passed his best, you seriously need to LEARN what you're trying to talk about cause you're just coming off sounding clueless

Sanchez' not like Ramirez , because Sanchez lost always by stoppage (Xcept 4 Calderon when he uncharacteristically lost by decision) . Ramirez won against Rosario and Whitaker and deserved 2 win vs Arguello as well and at least a draw in d 1st Rosario fight . "El Nene" always got his S drilled then handed 2 him . Ramirez was only stopped 1ce when he still was a novice from n Olivares body punch (and no1 2 verify if it was legit and not low) . "El Nene" made himself a name by being Sascha Grey like if u know what i mean . Then consider that d "best" that Ramirez fought were much better than d "best" that "El Nene" fought , sometimes beat and was never humiliated , except maybe 1 time , and "El Nene" , well , he was d Bukkake of his division .


Show me where i claimed that Morales does not belong in Mexico's top 10 so i can edit and fix it .
Would u ?

Whose posts r u replying 2 ? seemingly not some1 who posted in this thread .

hahaha so now without seeing a single fight of his you can determine just on paper that Sanchez was no good, he was far from great just like Ramirez but was decent enough and only lost to top guys, difference though his wins were all his, unlike the gift given to Ramirez in France against Whitaker, the fact that you try to build up Ramirez to be better than Morales in any sense is an insult, seeing how Morales was a notch higher in every department, skill, talent, and resume, Vargas lost every fight he had by TKO (besides his loss to Mayorga), does that make him a bum? simply put I'm done going in circles cause well there's no point in arguing with someone who has no logic, and sir that's exactly what you are =/

Xactly , "El Nene" was no good , and trying 2 seriously equate him 2 Ramirez is n insult .
Ramirez was rightfully awarded d decision over Whitaker .
Vargas was not a bum but far from great . I'd consider Vargas a lot better than Alex Sanchez and a lot worse than Ramirez .

yea Ramirez was as rightfully rewarded the decision as Bradley was against Pacquiao, as Casamayor was against Santa Cruz, and as Chavez was against well Whitaker, again you're saying that Sanchez was "no good" without having seen a single fight of his yet you try to build yourself up as an expert on Mexican and Puerto Rican fighters because you've seen a couple Ramirez fights, claiming that we haven't seen the fights you've mentioned just cause well we don't agree with your claims that Ramirez is anywhere close to being top 5 best at anything, keep fooling yourself bro cause the fact that no one here agrees with you just speaks volumes

[THE THIRD MAN]

It's early morning here in OZ and i haven't had a drink in a week, so i'm sober, no hangover, i've got a bit of a head cold, but apart from that i feel pretty good until i read some of these posts by frankenfrank about Ramirez beating Whitaker!!
Now unless you are downing a bottle of Jack a day there is no possible sane way you could lay claim to Ramirez beating Whitaker in that first fight. It is one of the worst decisions ever, Whitaker won at least 9 maybe 10 rounds, it's on a par with the Chavez draw as a bad decision.

[TitoFan]

my Puerto Rico list goes something like this

Puerto Rico :

1. "El Radar" Wilfredo Benitez
2. Carlos Ortiz
3. Wilfredo "Bazooka" Gomez
4. Felix "Tito" Trinidad
5. Sixto Escobar (for historical reasons)
6. Miguel Cotto
7. Esteban DeJesus
8. Hector "Macho" Camacho
9. Edwin "Chapo" Rosario
10. Jose "Chegui" Torres
11. Wilfredo Vazquez
12. "The Iron Boy" Ivan Calderon
13. Alfredo "El Salsero" Escalera
14. Juan Laporte
15. Sammy "El Torbellino" Serrano
16. Carlos De Leon
17. John John Molina
18. Ossie Ocasio
19. Angel Manfredy
20. John Ruiz (again only historical reasons)

Ranking is tough for me beyond top 5, but my top 15 would look something like this:


1. Wilfredo Benitez
2a. Felix Trinidad
2b. Wilfredo Gomez
4. Carlos Ortiz
5. Esteban De Jesus
6. Miguel Cotto
7. "Chegui" Torres
8. Hector Camacho (grudgingly)
9. Edwin Rosario
10. Ivan Calderon
11. Wilfredo Vazquez
12. Carlos De Leon
13. Alfredo Escalera
14. Sammy Serrano
15. Juan Laporte

[ElTerribleMorales]

my Puerto Rico list goes something like this

Puerto Rico :

1. "El Radar" Wilfredo Benitez
2. Carlos Ortiz
3. Wilfredo "Bazooka" Gomez
4. Felix "Tito" Trinidad
5. Sixto Escobar (for historical reasons)
6. Miguel Cotto
7. Esteban DeJesus
8. Hector "Macho" Camacho
9. Edwin "Chapo" Rosario
10. Jose "Chegui" Torres
11. Wilfredo Vazquez
12. "The Iron Boy" Ivan Calderon
13. Alfredo "El Salsero" Escalera
14. Juan Laporte
15. Sammy "El Torbellino" Serrano
16. Carlos De Leon
17. John John Molina
18. Ossie Ocasio
19. Angel Manfredy
20. John Ruiz (again only historical reasons)

Ranking is tough for me beyond top 5, but my top 15 would look something like this:


1. Wilfredo Benitez
2a. Felix Trinidad
2b. Wilfredo Gomez
4. Carlos Ortiz
5. Esteban De Jesus
6. Miguel Cotto
7. "Chegui" Torres
8. Hector Camacho (grudgingly)
9. Edwin Rosario
10. Ivan Calderon
11. Wilfredo Vazquez
12. Carlos De Leon
13. Alfredo Escalera
14. Sammy Serrano
15. Juan Laporte

some of the fighters are moved around a bit but they're more or less all there

[TitoFan]

JuanMa was on his way to that list, when he crashed and burned.

[frankenfrank]

Honestly man, and everyones entitled to an opinion, but as they say across the pond you've lost the plot. You strike me as someone who literally keeps Boxrec as a screen saver and I'm not sure you have seen even half of the guys you so flippingly label as bums and no bodies. Watch Ohashi fight or Sorjaturong fight and tell me their bums. Not knowing a fighter and not recognizing a name are very different. I too wanted a Lopez "dream match" sooner and history is littered with guys you wanted to move up. Carbajal and Lopez were two that missed each other not from avoidance but the sport playing through as it were. Finito had yet to even make his U.S audience debut by the time Michael had beaten and then lose to Gonzalez and frankly peak. Up until that point Lt Fly and Minimum were very much in the same boat. They were indeed the adopted red headed step child of boxing and still to this day get scoffed at. Carbajal AND Lopez did nothing but give it a shot in he arm and demand over due respect in the lower weights. Wide speculation as you say is based on the history and style, ability, skill fighters have displayed and would work far better to boost your case than scanning through some stat sheet records and fast forwarding over you tube. I mean why didn't a Lopez "challenge" a Melchor Cob Castro Dear God man, thats just winging it. To think a Gonzalez, God rest his soul, should rank higher than the calibur and skill of a Lopez based on simply being durable, lasting the rounds albeit in a losing effort to some and springing an upset is just loony tunes bro. For fuck sakes your describing half the journeymen in the sport. What next, Iran Barkely top 10-15? How about an Oliver McCall? You can think what you want bud, keep keeping on, but the way you generalize and dismiss fighters is unfortunate and short sighted.

Those i label as bums and nobodies i indeed haven't seen because i usually don't have interest at watching those .
I watched hundreds of fights , never fast 4warding and dismissing highlights and partial fights almost every time along deeply browsing boxrec , PPL's posts , some interviews read and a few interviews watched and a few articles as well .
JCGonzalez not only lasted d rounds but also won decisions against Glen Johnson and Dariusz Michalczewski (in Germany (!!) nonetheless) .
RLopez never foght anybody near that level . Then i did not repeat d names of d men JCGonzalez fought overall which is quite n impressing list .
It's Chris Eubanks who listed Barkley in his top 10 p4p of all times , not I . I will b much less eccentric in this 1 and just state that Barkley won ("(respected) world") titles @ 3 consecutive weights : 160 , 168 , 175 . Should i even start going through his list of wins and list of fought opponents overall ? Barkley is universes above RLopez in terms of warriorness , and by just d same Xtent more tested and proven , even if I don't have him in my top 70 of all times , nor even d top 40 of since 1980 . Wherever I have Barkley I have Lopez lower .
"Skill" means shit when it's untested and unproven . I can shadowbox beautifully . Maybe U all start ranking me ahead of Lopez .
Oliver McCall was a great fighter . A world champion who really beat d #1 in order 2 become a world champion , but it doesn't stop there . His "loss" 2 Lewis doesn't mean even shit , because McCall was just not in a condition 2 fight , he signed d fight while still in a rehabilitation institute and had withdrawal syndrome while in d ring and not enough time 2 train , and was not given d appropriate sparing partners . And then Lewis is not his only big win , Akinwande , Maskaev , Bruce Seldon and then Francesco Damiani come 2 mind , and a decision win over Jesse Fegusson , a younger , better fresher Jesse Fergusson than d 1 who beat Ray Mercer twice and James Douglas once , stopped Reggie Gross and was robbed against Larry Holmes . I also doubt d validity of McCall's decision losses 2 both Tony Tucker and Orlin Norris . U certainly haven't done your homework and demonstrate d knowledge of a casual , limited only 2d highest profile fights and d popular consensus . And u mentioned short sightedness . Your posts in this thread r d epitome of short sightedness among other things .

[frankenfrank]

yea Ramirez was as rightfully rewarded the decision as Bradley was against Pacquiao, as Casamayor was against Santa Cruz, and as Chavez was against well Whitaker, again you're saying that Sanchez was "no good" without having seen a single fight of his yet you try to build yourself up as an expert on Mexican and Puerto Rican fighters because you've seen a couple Ramirez fights, claiming that we haven't seen the fights you've mentioned just cause well we don't agree with your claims that Ramirez is anywhere close to being top 5 best at anything, keep fooling yourself bro cause the fact that no one here agrees with you just speaks volumes

Bradley against Pacquiao was a bad decision , d rest u mentioned i haven't watched yet but i doubt that u had , because i don't count watching highlights , skipping parts and fast 4warding as watching a fight . A man who systematically proven as being unable 2 defend himself is not good . I haven't seen just a couple of Ramirez fights , but u obviously haven't even watched "a couple" of Ramirez' fights . I M flattered 2 being disagreed with with PPL whom post such ignorant replies . It's a positive feedback 4 me .

[ElTerribleMorales]

yea Ramirez was as rightfully rewarded the decision as Bradley was against Pacquiao, as Casamayor was against Santa Cruz, and as Chavez was against well Whitaker, again you're saying that Sanchez was "no good" without having seen a single fight of his yet you try to build yourself up as an expert on Mexican and Puerto Rican fighters because you've seen a couple Ramirez fights, claiming that we haven't seen the fights you've mentioned just cause well we don't agree with your claims that Ramirez is anywhere close to being top 5 best at anything, keep fooling yourself bro cause the fact that no one here agrees with you just speaks volumes

Bradley against Pacquiao was a bad decision , d rest u mentioned i haven't watched yet but i doubt that u had , because i don't count watching highlights , skipping parts and fast 4warding as watching a fight . A man who systematically proven as being unable 2 defend himself is not good . I haven't seen just a couple of Ramirez fights , but u obviously haven't even watched "a couple" of Ramirez' fights . I M flattered 2 being disagreed with with PPL whom post such ignorant replies . It's a positive feedback 4 me .

unlike you buddy I actually know boxing, am on here pretty much for every meaningful fight posting while watching the fight live, thing is the only one here rambling on like an ignorant retard is you , if the only thing you base as being a great fighter is durability then fuck me you must have Tommy Hearns at the bottom of the barrel, Bradley/Pacquiao decision was just as bad as Whitaker/Ramirez I, if anything less so because at least Bradley was competitive with Manny, Ramirez at no point was competitive against the man who boxed circles around him and made him look like an amateur or as you put it a cab driver