Top fighters out of every country

[Spicoli]

You lost me at Julio C. Gonzalez should be higher than Ricardo lopez. That is just flat glue sniffing talk. Lopez quality shined through regardless of 'the no names' he fought and the ease with which you dismiss him is just flip. Forget that ten or so were former or future world champions and others ranked in the alphabet soup. Lopez did what your supposed to do vs top available comp if you a top p4p fighter...beat them all.Can people even name 10 strawweights? A division that wasn't even recongnized until the 90's fully. Not knowing a guy or the network not knowing how to pronounce his name doesn't equate to them being a no name.

I love me some Carbajal. Always have, back to the Olympics until the end. He literally in company with Gonzalez put the division on near equal footing and respect to main stream fans. Carbajal was tied up in a needed triology after signing with King...who had Lopez stuffed under large ppv cards and the two on same bill a few times. I blame a King if anyone. Lopez wasn't quaking in his boots after watching Gonzalez turn boxer and pull off two albeit close bloody wins over Carbajal. They put him into full blown rebuild mode after that and IF those two had any chance of meeting it was around here. To think that Carbajal just goes out and flattens Lopez is wrong. It never happened, we'll never know but I think Lopez gets him. Lopez was just that damn good.

[ElTerribleMorales]

You lost me at Julio C. Gonzalez should be higher than Ricardo lopez. That is just flat glue sniffing talk. Lopez quality shined through regardless of 'the no names' he fought and the ease with which you dismiss him is just flip. Forget that ten or so were former or future world champions and others ranked in the alphabet soup. Lopez did what your supposed to do vs top available comp if you a top p4p fighter...beat them all.Can people even name 10 strawweights? A division that wasn't even recongnized until the 90's fully. Not knowing a guy or the network not knowing how to pronounce his name doesn't equate to them being a no name.

I love me some Carbajal. Always have, back to the Olympics until the end. He literally in company with Gonzalez put the division on near equal footing and respect to main stream fans. Carbajal was tied up in a needed triology after signing with King...who had Lopez stuffed under large ppv cards and the two on same bill a few times. I blame a King if anyone. Lopez wasn't quaking in his boots after watching Gonzalez turn boxer and pull off two albeit close bloody wins over Carbajal. They put him into full blown rebuild mode after that and IF those two had any chance of meeting it was around here. To think that Carbajal just goes out and flattens Lopez is wrong. It never happened, we'll never know but I think Lopez gets him. Lopez was just that damn good.

don't bother with the guy, the fact that he basically has a fighter as the winner if he drops his opponent regardless if he dominates afterwards just shows how little he really knows, he's using some of that heavy duty shit

[frankenfrank]

You lost me at Julio C. Gonzalez should be higher than Ricardo lopez. That is just flat glue sniffing talk. Lopez quality shined through regardless of 'the no names' he fought and the ease with which you dismiss him is just flip. Forget that ten or so were former or future world champions and others ranked in the alphabet soup. Lopez did what your supposed to do vs top available comp if you a top p4p fighter...beat them all.Can people even name 10 strawweights? A division that wasn't even recongnized until the 90's fully. Not knowing a guy or the network not knowing how to pronounce his name doesn't equate to them being a no name.

I love me some Carbajal. Always have, back to the Olympics until the end. He literally in company with Gonzalez put the division on near equal footing and respect to main stream fans. Carbajal was tied up in a needed triology after signing with King...who had Lopez stuffed under large ppv cards and the two on same bill a few times. I blame a King if anyone. Lopez wasn't quaking in his boots after watching Gonzalez turn boxer and pull off two albeit close bloody wins over Carbajal. They put him into full blown rebuild mode after that and IF those two had any chance of meeting it was around here. To think that Carbajal just goes out and flattens Lopez is wrong. It never happened, we'll never know but I think Lopez gets him. Lopez was just that damn good.

after RLopez watched Carbajal-Gonzalez 2&3 it is even supposedly more troubling Y didn't Lopez try 2 take on Carbajal or any of d names in d division above him . It's not that i consider weight jumping as d only thing that counts , but he fought no1 so he's only 1-2 notches above d nobodies that he fought . At least as far as proven facts go . This is what he proved , and u r speculating wildly if u think that his achievements against nobodies suggest anything on how he'd have done vs Carbajal / Gonzalez / Melchor Cob Castro . All of these names he did not fight . Yes they probably were "bigger" than him , but he proved himself less than JCGonzalez had . Gonzalez at least proved 2b durable against good opponents . RLopez had no good opponents , his best being Rosendo Alvarez , and it's circular . Or did u mean that Carbajal's management ducked RLopez ? they still had all d rest of those names that i mentioned 2 pick on .
Light flyweight was far more interesting than strawweight back then but he stirred away from it while fighting nobody . Beating nobodies can only maybe put 1 in d top 15 of his division during 1's time , but #3 all times p4p of his quite heritage loaded country ? R U serious ? I didn't list Gonzalez in my top 10 Mexicans , but he was tested and proven more than RLopez was . Did Gonzalez lose 2 nobodies ? no , just like Lopez had . So Y does Lopez deserve a higher ranking ? Maybe if Lopez fought fighters even on d caliber that Gonzalez fought , he could have been crushed by them . But u'll never know , b/c he never had . But u still ignore all my arguments and rank RLopez higher .

[ElTerribleMorales]

You lost me at Julio C. Gonzalez should be higher than Ricardo lopez. That is just flat glue sniffing talk. Lopez quality shined through regardless of 'the no names' he fought and the ease with which you dismiss him is just flip. Forget that ten or so were former or future world champions and others ranked in the alphabet soup. Lopez did what your supposed to do vs top available comp if you a top p4p fighter...beat them all.Can people even name 10 strawweights? A division that wasn't even recongnized until the 90's fully. Not knowing a guy or the network not knowing how to pronounce his name doesn't equate to them being a no name.

I love me some Carbajal. Always have, back to the Olympics until the end. He literally in company with Gonzalez put the division on near equal footing and respect to main stream fans. Carbajal was tied up in a needed triology after signing with King...who had Lopez stuffed under large ppv cards and the two on same bill a few times. I blame a King if anyone. Lopez wasn't quaking in his boots after watching Gonzalez turn boxer and pull off two albeit close bloody wins over Carbajal. They put him into full blown rebuild mode after that and IF those two had any chance of meeting it was around here. To think that Carbajal just goes out and flattens Lopez is wrong. It never happened, we'll never know but I think Lopez gets him. Lopez was just that damn good.

after watching that it is even supposedly more troubling Y didn't Lopez try 2 take on Carbajal or any of d names in d division above him . It's not that i consider weight jumping as d only thing that counts , but he fought no1 so he's only 1-2 notches above d nobodies that he fought . At least as far as proven facts go . This is what he proved , and u r speculating wildly if u think that his achievements against nobodies suggest anything on how he'd have done vs Carbajal / Gonzalez / Melchor Cob Castro . All of these names he did not fight . Yes they probably were "bigger" than him , but he proved himself less than JCGonzalez had . Gonzalez at least proved 2b durable against good opponents . RLopez had no good opponents , his best being Rosendo Alvarez , and it's circular . Or did u mean that Carbajal's management ducked RLopez ? they still had all d rest of those names that i mentioned 2 pick on .
Light flyweight was far more interesting than strawweight back then but he stirred away from it while fighting nobody . Beating nobodies can only maybe put 1 in d top 15 of his division during 1's time , but #3 all times p4p of his quite heritage loaded country ? R U serious ? I didn't list Gonzalez in my top 10 Mexicans , but he was tested and proven more than RLopez was . Did Gonzalez lose 2 nobodies ? no , just like Lopez had . So Y does Lopez deserve a higher ranking ? Maybe if Lopez fought fighters even on d caliber that Gonzalez fought , he could have been crushed by them . But u'll never know , b/c he never had . But u still ignore all my arguments and rank RLopez higher .

dude your "arguments" only put you in a deeper hole exploiting how clueless you are, FFS you don't even know who Alex "El Nene" Sanchez is when he was one of the more well known names at 105/108 in the early 2000's, he fought the likes of Lopez, Burgos, Dieppa, Cazares, and Calderon all of those names well known, yet you'll probably try and discredit that as well with some fake logic or FAKE "facts", Lopez fought the best that was available at his weight class, no different from the likes of the Klitschko's, in terms of that if there isn't much available in big names yet that's your best weight, you just take on the top 10 guys or other champions and dominate, which is exactly what Lopez did his ENTIRE career, there's a reason why you wont find a list from any person who REALLY knows boxing that doesn't have Ricardo "Finito" Lopez in the top 3 or at worst top 5 of greatest Mexican fighters, you claim you're a student of the game well buddy you better go back to class especially when it comes to latino fighters cause you're flunking out bad

[frankenfrank]

dude your "arguments" only put you in a deeper hole exploiting how clueless you are, FFS you don't even know who Alex "El Nene" Sanchez is when he was one of the more well known names at 105/108 in the early 2000's, he fought the likes of Lopez, Burgos, Dieppa, Cazares, and Calderon all of those names well known, yet you'll probably try and discredit that as well with some fake logic or FAKE "facts", Lopez fought the best that was available at his weight class, no different from the likes of the Klitschko's, in terms of that if there isn't much available in big names yet that's your best weight, you just take on the top 10 guys or other champions and dominate, which is exactly what Lopez did his ENTIRE career, there's a reason why you wont find a list from any person who REALLY knows boxing that doesn't have Ricardo "Finito" Lopez in the top 3 or at worst top 5 of greatest Mexican fighters, you claim you're a student of the game well buddy you better go back to class especially when it comes to latino fighters cause you're flunking out bad

Boxrec's computerized system has him @ #64 p4p of all times of Mexico alone .
BoxRec Boxing Records
I doubt if he even deserves that .
I already in4med u that there r ppl with more knowledge on Mexican fighters than i have and those ppl don't have him in their top 10 of Mexico .
From them i learnt 2 doubt his record , and when i tried 2 look deep in2 it , i found that it has no depth .
That "El Nene" must have been a monster because :
1) he had n alias which is a rarity among cab drivers
2) he was stopped by every name opponent that he fought , Xcept from Calderon whom had 2 settle 4 a decision .
3) he had a cool sounding alias
4) he was from Puerto Rico , which already makes a great out of him
5) his last name was Sanchez
6) his 1st name was Alex , as in Alex Stewart , Alex Schulz and Alex Gonzales
, yes , and Alex Ramos , Sascha Dimitrenko and Sascha Povetkin .
That puts him in a tremendous company .
7) only now i came 2 recognition that he actually held d WBO minimumweight title , won (d vacant title) and defended Xclusively vs bums .


Now i really know who "El Nene" was . Your posts inspired me 2 make a research about him .


And i don't have either Klitschko in my top 100 p4p , and unlike u i actually compiled such a list .
I now feel ashamed that i 1ce included Lopez in it , because d more i learn / know / think about him , d lower i think of him .

[ElTerribleMorales]

dude your "arguments" only put you in a deeper hole exploiting how clueless you are, FFS you don't even know who Alex "El Nene" Sanchez is when he was one of the more well known names at 105/108 in the early 2000's, he fought the likes of Lopez, Burgos, Dieppa, Cazares, and Calderon all of those names well known, yet you'll probably try and discredit that as well with some fake logic or FAKE "facts", Lopez fought the best that was available at his weight class, no different from the likes of the Klitschko's, in terms of that if there isn't much available in big names yet that's your best weight, you just take on the top 10 guys or other champions and dominate, which is exactly what Lopez did his ENTIRE career, there's a reason why you wont find a list from any person who REALLY knows boxing that doesn't have Ricardo "Finito" Lopez in the top 3 or at worst top 5 of greatest Mexican fighters, you claim you're a student of the game well buddy you better go back to class especially when it comes to latino fighters cause you're flunking out bad

Boxrec's computerized system has him @ #64 p4p of all times of Mexico alone .
BoxRec Boxing Records
I doubt if he even deserves that .
I already in4med u that there r ppl with more knowledge on Mexican fighters than i have and those ppl don't have him in their top 10 of Mexico .
From them i learnt 2 doubt his record , and when i tried 2 look deep in2 it , i found that it has no depth .
That "El Nene" must have been a monster because :
1) he had n alias which is a rarity among cab drivers
2) he was stopped by every name opponent that he fought , Xcept from Calderon whom had 2 settle 4 a decision .
3) he had a cool sounding alias
4) he was from Puerto Rico , which already makes a great out of him
5) his last name was Sanchez
6) his 1st name was Alex , as in Alex Stewart , Alex Schulz and Alex Gonzales
, yes , and Alex Ramos , Sascha Dimitrenko and Sascha Povetkin .
That puts him in a tremendous company .
7) only now i came 2 recognition that he actually held d WBO minimumweight title , won (d vacant title) and defended Xclusively vs bums .


Now i really know who "El Nene" was . Your posts inspired me 2 make a research about him .


And i don't have either Klitschko in my top 100 p4p , and unlike u i actually compiled such a list .
I now feel ashamed that i 1ce included Lopez in it , because d more i learn / know / think about him , d lower i think of him .

so fucking what? boxrec has Yoan Pablo Hernandez as the 13th best fighter in the world, ahead of Miguel Cotto, Orlando Salido, Amir Khan, Gamboa, Nonito Donaire, and Tomasz Adamek, meaning their ranking system is pure shit, as I said keep rambling with your clueless bullshit, you're just making yourself look like a bigger dumbass

[Peter Som]

Another interesting and informative thread, thank you for the posts.

[frankenfrank]

so fucking what? boxrec has Yoan Pablo Hernandez as the 13th best fighter in the world, ahead of Miguel Cotto, Orlando Salido, Amir Khan, Gamboa, Nonito Donaire, and Tomasz Adamek, meaning their ranking system is pure shit, as I said keep rambling with your clueless bullshit, you're just making yourself look like a bigger dumbass

I disagree about Hernandez being ranked ahead of Donaire , and i doubt him being ranked ahead of Cotto & Adamek even though i don't clearly rule it out like u do . It is completely plausible that he is better than Khan even though i m not sure at it yet , don't know about Gamboa & Salido and don't feel like checking it right now , and i do agree that boxrec's rankings r Xtremely flawed as they don't consider d facts behind d records . But i do consider these facts whenever i know them , and u just couldn't give me 1 fact indicating RLopez' quality Xcept that he looked really good beating bums .
So did Carlos Zarate and Alfonso Zamora . And in Zarate's case i don't even count his losses 2 Pintor (not a real loss , i guess that it was a robbery) and Gomez (Gomez should have been DQed but since it was in his homeland he wasn't) , Zarate at least has 1 mediocre win over Zamora whom himself has a mediocre win over Pedroza . medicore in that Pedroza was not what he's made 2b due 2 him being 1 of d dirtiest ever and not winning big against his good opponents , and Zamora only has that 1 win that counts . So both Zarate and Zamora can b considered 1 hit wonders . RLopez does not even have that 1 hit . only 2 draws against Rosendo Alvarez .

back 2 boxrec and d main problem in its scoring system it is wrong but objective due 2 it being computerized so think Y does it has d "undefeated" Lopez ranked so low ?
True it shouldn't b treated as a reliable source 4 ranking but just try guessing d answer .
D answer is that it's because Lopez hadn't fought nobody and even a dumb computer could figure it out . Otherwise u'd Xpect d computer 2 count a seemingly flawless record in a more rewarding manner .

Their system is shit but not pure shit .
My way is less naive and yields different results as 1 can verify by comparing my top 10s of Mexico , Puerto Rico & Panama all of which i currently listed in d 2nd post of this thread .
I , boxrec and those other ppl that i in4med u about got 2 different results than each other , sometimes drastically different , but none of us has him in his/its top 10 of Mexico .

D problem with u is that u r all like 1 person using d same account , no judgement , only imitation of some role model "Xperts" who in reality r true dumbasses .
Stop imitating and replying like a bot , start reading d thread and my replies 2u because in some cases here it was obvious that u ignored my questions and my replies 2u .
U keep arguing about n unknown quantity needing 2b ranked higher than proven warriors .
when u were asked and then proven about both "El Nene" and Rosendo Alvarez u failed yet again at defending them and succeeded only at seemingly replying by simply posting a reply post . Based on content of replies in some of d cases it's like u quoted me and answered with a blank post .
Start acknowledging d truth because it is here 4u 2 read .

[ElTerribleMorales]

so fucking what? boxrec has Yoan Pablo Hernandez as the 13th best fighter in the world, ahead of Miguel Cotto, Orlando Salido, Amir Khan, Gamboa, Nonito Donaire, and Tomasz Adamek, meaning their ranking system is pure shit, as I said keep rambling with your clueless bullshit, you're just making yourself look like a bigger dumbass

I disagree about Hernandez being ranked ahead of Donaire , and i doubt him being ranked ahead of Cotto & Adamek even though i don't clearly rule it out like u do . It is completely plausible that he is better than Khan even though i m not sure at it yet , don't know about Gamboa & Salido and don't feel like checking it right now , and i do agree that boxrec's rankings r Xtremely flawed as they don't consider d facts behind d records . But i do consider these facts whenever i know them , and u just couldn't give me 1 fact indicating RLopez' quality Xcept that he looked really good beating bums .
So did Carlos Zarate and Alfonso Zamora . And in Zarate's case i don't even count his losses 2 Pintor (not a real loss , i guess that it was a robbery) and Gomez (Gomez should have been DQed but since it was in his homeland he wasn't) , Zarate at least has 1 mediocre win over Zamora whom himself has a mediocre win over Pedroza . medicore in that Pedroza was not what he's made 2b due 2 him being 1 of d dirtiest ever and not winning big against his good opponents , and Zamora only has that 1 win that counts . So both Zarate and Zamora can b considered 1 hit wonders . RLopez does not even have that 1 hit . only 2 draws against Rosendo Alvarez .

back 2 boxrec and d main problem in its scoring system it is wrong but objective due 2 it being computerized so think Y does it has d "undefeated" Lopez ranked so low ?
True it shouldn't b treated as a reliable source 4 ranking but just try guessing d answer .
D answer is that it's because Lopez hadn't fought nobody and even a dumb computer could figure it out . Otherwise u'd Xpect d computer 2 count a seemingly flawless record in a more rewarding manner .

Their system is shit but not pure shit .
My way is less naive and yields different results as 1 can verify by comparing my top 10s of Mexico , Puerto Rico & Panama all of which i currently listed in d 2nd post of this thread .
I , boxrec and those other ppl that i in4med u about got 2 different results than each other , sometimes drastically different , but none of us has him in his/its top 10 of Mexico .

D problem with u is that u r all like 1 person using d same account , no judgement , only imitation of some role model "Xperts" who in reality r true dumbasses .
Stop imitating and replying like a bot , start reading d thread and my replies 2u because in some cases here it was obvious that u ignored my questions and my replies 2u .
U keep arguing about n unknown quantity needing 2b ranked higher than proven warriors .
when u were asked and then proven about both "El Nene" and Rosendo Alvarez u failed yet again at defending them and succeeded only at seemingly replying by simply posting a reply post . Based on content of replies in some of d cases it's like u quoted me and answered with a blank post .
Start acknowledging d truth because it is here 4u 2 read .

Hernandez doesn't deserve to be ahead of any of the fighters I named, so you can't use Boxrec as evidence of Lopez being overrated then go ahead and say that the Boxrec rankings are flawed, they're flawed in every sense especially if they have Ricardo Lopez that low, as for blasting Sanchez, well he's basically IMO on the same level of someone like Ramirez, always fought the best but didn't beat the best, and I do read your posts and stop half way cause it's not the truth all I read is biased ignorant bullshit, all you seem to post is farfetched opinions that are based on opinions rather than FACT, ffs you said that Morales given his resume doesn't belong in the top 10 due to the fact that he has 2 stoppage losses, regardless of the fact that A) it was against Manny Pacquiao and B) that Morales was passed his best, you seriously need to LEARN what you're trying to talk about cause you're just coming off sounding clueless

[Spicoli]

You lost me at Julio C. Gonzalez should be higher than Ricardo lopez. That is just flat glue sniffing talk. Lopez quality shined through regardless of 'the no names' he fought and the ease with which you dismiss him is just flip. Forget that ten or so were former or future world champions and others ranked in the alphabet soup. Lopez did what your supposed to do vs top available comp if you a top p4p fighter...beat them all.Can people even name 10 strawweights? A division that wasn't even recognized until the 90's fully. Not knowing a guy or the network not knowing how to pronounce his name doesn't equate to them being a no name.

I love me some Carbajal. Always have, back to the Olympics until the end. He literally in company with Gonzalez put the division on near equal footing and respect to main stream fans. Carbajal was tied up in a needed trilogy after signing with King...who had Lopez stuffed under large ppv cards and the two on same bill a few times. I blame a King if anyone. Lopez wasn't quaking in his boots after watching Gonzalez turn boxer and pull off two albeit close bloody wins over Carbajal. They put him into full blown rebuild mode after that and IF those two had any chance of meeting it was around here. To think that Carbajal just goes out and flattens Lopez is wrong. It never happened, we'll never know but I think Lopez gets him. Lopez was just that damn good.

after RLopez watched Carbajal-Gonzalez 2&3 it is even supposedly more troubling Y didn't Lopez try 2 take on Carbajal or any of d names in d division above him . It's not that i consider weight jumping as d only thing that counts , but he fought no1 so he's only 1-2 notches above d nobodies that he fought . At least as far as proven facts go . This is what he proved , and u r speculating wildly if u think that his achievements against nobodies suggest anything on how he'd have done vs Carbajal / Gonzalez / Melchor Cob Castro . All of these names he did not fight . Yes they probably were "bigger" than him , but he proved himself less than JCGonzalez had . Gonzalez at least proved 2b durable against good opponents . RLopez had no good opponents , his best being Rosendo Alvarez , and it's circular . Or did u mean that Carbajal's management ducked RLopez ? they still had all d rest of those names that i mentioned 2 pick on .
Light flyweight was far more interesting than strawweight back then but he stirred away from it while fighting nobody . Beating nobodies can only maybe put 1 in d top 15 of his division during 1's time , but #3 all times p4p of his quite heritage loaded country ? R U serious ? I didn't list Gonzalez in my top 10 Mexicans , but he was tested and proven more than RLopez was . Did Gonzalez lose 2 nobodies ? no , just like Lopez had . So Y does Lopez deserve a higher ranking ? Maybe if Lopez fought fighters even on d caliber that Gonzalez fought , he could have been crushed by them . But u'll never know , b/c he never had . But u still ignore all my arguments and rank RLopez higher .

Honestly man, and everyones entitled to an opinion, but as they say across the pond you've lost the plot. You strike me as someone who literally keeps Boxrec as a screen saver and I'm not sure you have seen even half of the guys you so flippingly label as bums and no bodies. Watch Ohashi fight or Sorjaturong fight and tell me their bums. Not knowing a fighter and not recognizing a name are very different. I too wanted a Lopez "dream match" sooner and history is littered with guys you wanted to move up. Carbajal and Lopez were two that missed each other not from avoidance but the sport playing through as it were. Finito had yet to even make his U.S audience debut by the time Michael had beaten and then lose to Gonzalez and frankly peak. Up until that point Lt Fly and Minimum were very much in the same boat. They were indeed the adopted red headed step child of boxing and still to this day get scoffed at. Carbajal AND Lopez did nothing but give it a shot in he arm and demand over due respect in the lower weights. Wide speculation as you say is based on the history and style, ability, skill fighters have displayed and would work far better to boost your case than scanning through some stat sheet records and fast forwarding over you tube. I mean why didn't a Lopez "challenge" a Melchor Cob Castro Dear God man, thats just winging it. To think a Gonzalez, God rest his soul, should rank higher than the calibur and skill of a Lopez based on simply being durable, lasting the rounds albeit in a losing effort to some and springing an upset is just loony tunes bro. For fuck sakes your describing half the journeymen in the sport. What next, Iran Barkely top 10-15? How about an Oliver McCall? You can think what you want bud, keep keeping on, but the way you generalize and dismiss fighters is unfortunate and short sighted.

[frankenfrank]

Honestly man, and everyones entitled to an opinion, but as they say across the pond you've lost the plot. You strike me as someone who literally keeps Boxrec as a screen saver and I'm not sure you have seen even half of the guys you so flippingly label as bums and no bodies. Watch Ohashi fight or Sorjaturong fight and tell me their bums. Not knowing a fighter and not recognizing a name are very different. I too wanted a Lopez "dream match" sooner and history is littered with guys you wanted to move up. Carbajal and Lopez were two that missed each other not from avoidance but the sport playing through as it were. Finito had yet to even make his U.S audience debut by the time Michael had beaten and then lose to Gonzalez and frankly peak. Up until that point Lt Fly and Minimum were very much in the same boat. They were indeed the adopted red headed step child of boxing and still to this day get scoffed at. Carbajal AND Lopez did nothing but give it a shot in he arm and demand over due respect in the lower weights. Wide speculation as you say is based on the history and style, ability, skill fighters have displayed and would work far better to boost your case than scanning through some stat sheet records and fast forwarding over you tube. I mean why didn't a Lopez "challenge" a Melchor Cob Castro Dear God man, thats just winging it. To think a Gonzalez, God rest his soul, should rank higher than the calibur and skill of a Lopez based on simply being durable, lasting the rounds albeit in a losing effort to some and springing an upset is just loony tunes bro. For fuck sakes your describing half the journeymen in the sport. What next, Iran Barkely top 10-15? How about an Oliver McCall? You can think what you want bud, keep keeping on, but the way you generalize and dismiss fighters is unfortunate and short sighted.

Those i label as bums and nobodies i indeed haven't seen because i usually don't have interest at watching those .
I watched hundreds of fights , never fast 4warding and dismissing highlights and partial fights almost every time along deeply browsing boxrec , PPL's posts , some interviews read and a few interviews watched and a few articles as well .
JCGonzalez not only lasted d rounds but also won decisions against Glen Johnson and Dariusz Michalczewski (in Germany (!!) nonetheless) .
RLopez never foght anybody near that level . Then i did not repeat d names of d men JCGonzalez fought overall which is quite n impressing list .
It's Chris Eubanks who listed Barkley in his top 10 p4p of all times , not I . I will b much less eccentric in this 1 and just state that Barkley won ("(respected) world") titles @ 3 consecutive weights : 160 , 168 , 175 . Should i even start going through his list of wins and list of fought opponents overall ? Barkley is universes above RLopez in terms of warriorness , and by just d same Xtent more tested and proven , even if I don't have him in my top 70 of all times , nor even d top 40 of since 1980 . Wherever I have Barkley I have Lopez lower .
"Skill" means shit when it's untested and unproven . I can shadowbox beautifully . Maybe U all start ranking me ahead of Lopez .
Oliver McCall was a great fighter . A world champion who really beat d #1 in order 2 become a world champion , but it doesn't stop there . His "loss" 2 Lewis doesn't mean even shit , because McCall was just not in a condition 2 fight , he signed d fight while still in a rehabilitation institute and had withdrawal syndrome while in d ring and not enough time 2 train , and was not given d appropriate sparing partners . And then Lewis is not his only big win , Akinwande , Maskaev , Bruce Seldon and then Francesco Damiani come 2 mind , and a decision win over Jesse Fegusson , a younger , better fresher Jesse Fergusson than d 1 who beat Ray Mercer twice and James Douglas once , stopped Reggie Gross and was robbed against Larry Holmes . I also doubt d validity of McCall's decision losses 2 both Tony Tucker and Orlin Norris . U certainly haven't done your homework and demonstrate d knowledge of a casual , limited only 2d highest profile fights and d popular consensus . And u mentioned short sightedness . Your posts in this thread r d epitome of short sightedness among other things .

[Spicoli]

Honestly man, and everyones entitled to an opinion, but as they say across the pond you've lost the plot. You strike me as someone who literally keeps Boxrec as a screen saver and I'm not sure you have seen even half of the guys you so flippingly label as bums and no bodies. Watch Ohashi fight or Sorjaturong fight and tell me their bums. Not knowing a fighter and not recognizing a name are very different. I too wanted a Lopez "dream match" sooner and history is littered with guys you wanted to move up. Carbajal and Lopez were two that missed each other not from avoidance but the sport playing through as it were. Finito had yet to even make his U.S audience debut by the time Michael had beaten and then lose to Gonzalez and frankly peak. Up until that point Lt Fly and Minimum were very much in the same boat. They were indeed the adopted red headed step child of boxing and still to this day get scoffed at. Carbajal AND Lopez did nothing but give it a shot in he arm and demand over due respect in the lower weights. Wide speculation as you say is based on the history and style, ability, skill fighters have displayed and would work far better to boost your case than scanning through some stat sheet records and fast forwarding over you tube. I mean why didn't a Lopez "challenge" a Melchor Cob Castro Dear God man, thats just winging it. To think a Gonzalez, God rest his soul, should rank higher than the calibur and skill of a Lopez based on simply being durable, lasting the rounds albeit in a losing effort to some and springing an upset is just loony tunes bro. For fuck sakes your describing half the journeymen in the sport. What next, Iran Barkely top 10-15? How about an Oliver McCall? You can think what you want bud, keep keeping on, but the way you generalize and dismiss fighters is unfortunate and short sighted.

Those i label as bums and nobodies i indeed haven't seen because i usually don't have interest at watching those . I watched hundreds of fights , never fast 4warding and dismissing highlights and partial fights almost every time along deeply browsing boxrec , PPL's posts , some interviews read and a few interviews watched and a few articles as well .
JCGonzalez not only lasted d rounds but also won decisions against Glen Johnson and Dariusz Michalczewski (in Germany (!!) nonetheless) .
RLopez never foght anybody near that level . Then i did not repeat d names of d men JCGonzalez fought overall which is quite n impressing list .
It's Chris Eubanks who listed Barkley in his top 10 p4p of all times , not I . I will b much less eccentric in this 1 and just state that Barkley won ("(respected) world") titles @ 3 consecutive weights : 160 , 168 , 175 . Should i even start going through his list of wins and list of fought opponents overall ? Barkley is universes above RLopez in terms of warriorness , and by just d same Xtent more tested and proven , even if I don't have him in my top 70 of all times , nor even d top 40 of since 1980 . Wherever I have Barkley I have Lopez lower .
"Skill" means shit when it's untested and unproven . I can shadowbox beautifully . Maybe U all start ranking me ahead of Lopez .
Oliver McCall was a great fighter . A world champion who really beat d #1 in order 2 become a world champion , but it doesn't stop there . His "loss" 2 Lewis doesn't mean even shit , because McCall was just not in a condition 2 fight , he signed d fight while still in a rehabilitation institute and had withdrawal syndrome while in d ring and not enough time 2 train , and was not given d appropriate sparing partners . And then Lewis is not his only big win , Akinwande , Maskaev , Bruce Seldon and then Francesco Damiani come 2 mind , and a decision win over Jesse Fegusson , a younger , better fresher Jesse Fergusson than d 1 who beat Ray Mercer twice and James Douglas once , stopped Reggie Gross and was robbed against Larry Holmes . I also doubt d validity of McCall's decision losses 2 both Tony Tucker and Orlin Norris . U certainly haven't done your homework and demonstrate d knowledge of a casual , limited only 2d highest profile fights and d popular consensus . And u mentioned short sightedness . Your posts in this thread r d epitome of short sightedness among other things .

So my man, you rag on fighters and ranked challengers you have never seen actually fight in regards to a hof'r and a guy you dimiss but then use a Jesse fuckin Fergusson and Akinwande to legitimize a "great fighter" in Oliver McCall. Point of a McCall, Barkley and Gonzalez is all guys of that nature have a few suprises, but also let downs. Don't you see the total foley in what you speak? You can watch boxers box to see great talent or a worthy fighter but it doesn't jump off of pages or chat rooms by itself. I can say pretty safely I've spent more years watching fighters begin, peak and end than the years you have collectivly spent Googling and "browsin boxrec" to judge fighters you really cannot.

[IamInuit]

On the QUESTION at hand. A more subjective topic does not exist.

Anyway I'll play and start off with my own country and then the rest of the continent as an exercise in futility.

Top 10

Canada:
Langford
Dixon
Lewis. If I were to include him.
McClarnin came here as a toddler from Ireland.
Brouillard
Durelle
Burns
Chuvalo
Smith
Delaney

U.S.:
Greb
Robinson
Armstrong
Gans
Ali
Louis
Charles
Burley
Pep
Ketchel

Mex:
Zarate
Sanchez
Canto
Olivares
Saldivar
Lopez
Azteca
Morales
Marquez
Mab

[frankenfrank]

On the QUESTION at hand. A more subjective topic does not exist.

Anyway I'll play and start off with my own country and then the rest of the continent as an exercise in futility.

Top 10

Canada:
Langford
Dixon
Lewis. If I were to include him.
McClarnin came here as a toddler from Ireland.
Brouillard
Durelle
Burns
Chuvalo
Smith
Delaney

I'd put Bob Cleroux ahead of Smith and Durelle if not ahead of some of d rest as well .
I don't even know who is d Smith u referred 2 here.
BTW , do u know that Langford's fight against Jack Blackburn was verified as fixed ?
It's just d "edge of d iceberg" if u ask me .
I believe that until d 1970s , a large portion of d fights were fixed in this way or another .
Larger than u'll ever recognize .

U.S.:
Greb
Robinson
Armstrong
Gans
Ali
Louis
Charles
Burley
Pep
Ketchel

Very bad and ignorant . I'd put Eddie Booker close 2 Burley , but ignorant ppl only hear of Burley and barely if at all recognize d name Eddie Booker .
Ali , Louis , Pep , Ketchell , Gans and even Charles and Greb do not belong in this list .
WSJ was huge 4 a welterweight and even enjoyed big height &B reach advantages as a middleweight , was stopped by d only bigger man whom he ever fought in Joey Maxim and additionally was KOd by Artie Levine and outpointed by d midget Carmen Basilio .
i read that in addition 2 these he also enjoyed a gift decision over Georgie Abrahams , and 4 all of his huge size advantages and sometimes even youth advantages over opponents which unsurprisingly resulted in KO wins over dwarfed opponents (not something i consider as greatness) he failed 3 times at stopping a smaller and older Sammy Angott . He also avoided d "Black Murderes Row" .


I think that this 1 is not my final or even close 2 final list 4d US , but a huge advance from your list :
USA (improvement from your list) :

Charles Burley
Eddie Booker
Henry Armstrong
James Toney
Oliver McCall
Reggie Johnson
Willie Joyce
Orlin Norris
Chris Byrd
Shane Mosley


This list is possibly not perfect but is so much better than yours .

Mex:
Zarate
Sanchez
Canto
Olivares
Saldivar
Lopez
Azteca
Morales
Marquez
Mab

Where is Chavez ? Zarate ahead of Sanchez ? 4 what ?
and how do u separate Olivares from Herera and Castillo whom deserve 2b ranked above him at least as far as their fights between each other went ?
And Lopez again ? 4 what ?
Saldivar , another bad pick 4 a top 10 .

[frankenfrank]

So my man, you rag on fighters and ranked challengers you have never seen actually fight in regards to a hof'r and a guy you dimiss but then use a Jesse fuckin Fergusson and Akinwande to legitimize a "great fighter" in Oliver McCall. Point of a McCall, Barkley and Gonzalez is all guys of that nature have a few suprises, but also let downs. Don't you see the total foley in what you speak? You can watch boxers box to see great talent or a worthy fighter but it doesn't jump off of pages or chat rooms by itself. I can say pretty safely I've spent more years watching fighters begin, peak and end than the years you have collectivly spent Googling and "browsin boxrec" to judge fighters you really cannot.

Since u'r questioning my hundreds of fights multiple viewing Xperience , praising bums and dissing very good and sometimes great fighters i have 2 ask u if u watched Jesse Fergusson in his winning efforts or just d losing 1s ? same with Akinwande . admittedly i haven't managed 2 get all of their interesting winning efforts so that's Y i haven't watched them all , but since u diss them , have u watched Ferguson outpoint Douglas and then Mercer (*2 probably) ? r u even aware of these accomplishments when u diss them d way u do while at d same spirit praising bums ? Ferguson and Akinwande at least proved themselves by winning fights against good opponents and lasting d distance against others . Did Alex Sanchez ever managed such a feat besides losing a decision 2 Ivan Calderon ? which is his (Sanchez') greatest achievement by far BTW .
And since u've seen d great "El Nene" at work , as opposed 2 I , can u educate me a bit on his achievements ? since i couldn't figure any .