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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
Old Guard
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Cotto took the history making fight with Martinez, which turned out to be an exceptional business decision. He only turned it down the 2nd time because of his promotional situation. You're twisting facts again. Like I've said, I'm a huge fan of Canelo but lets not pretend he's even achieved anything on the level of Cotto. Also, I don't see Canelo negotiating with Golovkin, instead he fought the mediocre, steamrolled James Kirkland.
Damn straight!
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
Fact 1, Cotto was offered 10 million plus to fight Alvarez.What bullshit. Cotto has been fighting at the top for a long time, has fought everyone you would ask of him. It took Canelo long enough to fight a genuine junior-middleweight and even now he's fighting them at a slight catchweight. I'm a massive fan of both fighters, but you're twisting your hatred on Puerto Rican fighters to have you misjudge a situation. Cotto will take the best money fight next, and that'll be Canelo.Ha! Fucking hilarious and pretty fucking sad trying to group them together. Alvarez has no problem saying he welcomes a fight again Golovkin. Cotto doesn't even dare say Golovkin's name and does his best to avoid any questions about fighting him.
Saul Alvarez: Yes no problem. If the fans want the fight they will get the fight. He's strong and would be a big challenge. He's in our plans for the future. First Cotto. Than Golovkin
Miguel Cotto: Cotto gonna fight who Cotto wants to fight. Cotto fighting the great Daniel Geale next. Cotto knows he need to be at the his best when facing an ATG like Geale. So he not worry about no one but future HOF Daniel Geale. If Triple G and Canelo want to fight Cotto they need to earn the right to fight Cotto. They need to fight each other 3 times to see who is most worthy. Than Cotto will do whats right. He will give former champion Sergio Martinez his rematch
That's been the case twice already. And he still turned the fight down. You wanna call it hate. Everybody else calls it facts.
You can repeat the same shit 100 times. It still doesn't make it true. I'll say this one more time. You say "twice". What a laugh. The first time, each fighter wanted different things. Neither budged. Cotto stuck to his guns and his plans, basically telling the upstart to "shove it". Cotto wanted to fight in June, as his custom lately, fighting around the time of the P.R. parade in NYC. Canelo wanted to fight in March. Cotto also wanted to go for the MW title, rather than fighting Canelo in a non-title fight. As I've said countless times before.... it is Cotto who calls the shots.... not the upstart. Kudos to Cotto for not caving to GDP and their coddled ginger-head. It IS hate, whereas everyone else just deals in facts.
Fact 2, Cotto takes 7 million to fight Sergio Martinez instead.
Fact 3, Cotto is guaranteed 12 million to fight Alvarez in May.
Fact 4, The Golovkin camp express interest in fighting Cotto
Fact 5, Cotto doesn't sign to fight Alvarez and refuses to negotiate with Golovkin
Fact 6, Cotto signs to face the mediocre, recently steamrolled Daniel Geale
Fake, wannabe boxing fans always confuse facts with hate.
Ok... first I commend you because for the first time in history you're taking the high road in an argument, and not resorting to childish insults.
Having said that, I feel compelled to differentiate between "ducking", which of course you're implying that Cotto is doing with Canelo..... and business decisions.
"Ducking" is avoiding another fighter because of fear. Everything is in favor of your facing the other fighter..... EVERYTHING. But you choose not to. There's no other reason other than fear. You may even choose to give up a title because you don't want to face so-and-so.
Business decisions come from negotiations. In the end, you choose to do what is best for YOUR career, at the time you're making the decision. No pressure.... no coercing from anybody else is going to change your mind. On the contrary. If you allow yourself to get pressured.... you're actually weak-minded.... something Cotto has demonstrated he's not.
Beyond all that, Cotto has never ducked anyone in his career. To insist he's ducking Canelo is an affront to all the really great fighters Cotto's fought in the past. Why would he fight the hit parade of great fighters he's fought..... only to now duck Canelo?? It makes no sense, and you know it.
Therefore, your list of so-called "facts" are nothing more than an empty argument trying to prove something that isn't there. And as you like to say....... knowledgeable fans know that. Haters don't.
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
Cotto took the fight against Martinez cuz it was easy pick-ins. Everybody knew Martinez knee was gone. Cotto don't give a damn about the middleweight title. If he did he would be defending it against the best middleweights out there. Or at least against the best opponent available. But he's not. For someone who says there a fan of Alvarez you sure are selling him short. Facts don't lie. And the facts are Alvarez is on a accelerated pace to surpass Cotto and several other superstar accomplishments. Alvarez has already beaten Lara, Kirkland, Angulo, Trout and has been in the ring against the best fighter in the world (Mayweather). And all he's trying to do now is get in ring against the middleweight champion (and he gets hated on for that). And he's only 24 years old. Aside from Japanese monster Naoya Inoue name me a fighter that has beaten that level of opposition at 24 years old. At 24 years old Cotto was fighting Demetrio Ceballos and Rocky Martinez. Mediocre fighters nowhere near the level of Lara or Trout. Now tell me. What facts did I twist now?Cotto took the history making fight with Martinez, which turned out to be an exceptional business decision. He only turned it down the 2nd time because of his promotional situation. You're twisting facts again. Like I've said, I'm a huge fan of Canelo but lets not pretend he's even achieved anything on the level of Cotto. Also, I don't see Canelo negotiating with Golovkin, instead he fought the mediocre, steamrolled James Kirkland.
Old Guard
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
Cotto took the fight against Martinez cuz it was easy pick-ins. Everybody knew Martinez knee was gone. Cotto don't give a damn about the middleweight title. If he did he would be defending it against the best middleweights out there. Or at least against the best opponent available. But he's not. For someone who says there a fan of Alvarez you sure are selling him short. Facts don't lie. And the facts are Alvarez is on a accelerated pace to surpass Cotto and several other superstar accomplishments. Alvarez has already beaten Lara, Kirkland, Angulo, Trout and has been in the ring against the best fighter in the world (Mayweather). And all he's trying to do now is get in ring against the middleweight champion (and he gets hated on for that). And he's only 24 years old. Aside from Japanese monster Naoya Inoue name me a fighter that has beaten that level of opposition at 24 years old. At 24 years old Cotto was fighting Demetrio Ceballos and Rocky Martinez. Mediocre fighters nowhere near the level of Lara or Trout. Now tell me. What facts did I twist now?Cotto took the history making fight with Martinez, which turned out to be an exceptional business decision. He only turned it down the 2nd time because of his promotional situation. You're twisting facts again. Like I've said, I'm a huge fan of Canelo but lets not pretend he's even achieved anything on the level of Cotto. Also, I don't see Canelo negotiating with Golovkin, instead he fought the mediocre, steamrolled James Kirkland.
Cotto wanted to be the first Puerto Rican fighter to win titles in four different weight divisions. Martinez was there and available. Cotto took it. Canelo would've done exactly the same thing if in Cotto's place, and to say otherwise is to insult the intelligence of everyone here.
... and again with the age thing.
Once again... I'll rehash the same thing for the millionth time. You can't compare ages between Cotto and Canelo. Cotto turned pro at 21. That same year he suffered a serious car accident that produced career-threatening injuries, which he overcame to continue fighting. He won his first title (albeit regional) in his 14th fight against Cesar Bazan, and in his 21st fight beat Kelson Pinto for the WBO super lightweight title. His list of opponents has, and always will, put Canelo's list to shame.
Meanwhile, Canelo turned pro at 15, fattening his pro record with a long series of bums. I told you what Cotto did for his 21st fight. What was Canelo doing at the same stage? His 20th fight was against the great Francisco Villanueva (5-17-2), who Canelo had already knocked out 3 months earlier!! I guess they ran out of fresh bums, so they decided to retread some used ones. He stayed comfortably within the friendly confines of Mexico until finally venturing out to Las Vegas for his 33rd fight, against Miguel's brother, Jose Miguel.
What facts did you twist now? ALL of them.
You keep lobbing half-truths this way....... I keep bashing them over the center field wall.
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
And after the Villanueva fight Alvarez faced for the 2nd time future champion Miguel Vazquez. The first time he faced him was in his 3rd fight. Cotto faced Waklimi Young in his 3rd fight. What the fuck is a Waklimi? You know the hate is strong in someone when they bad mouthed the opposition a fighter faced when he was 17, 18 years old.Cotto took the fight against Martinez cuz it was easy pick-ins. Everybody knew Martinez knee was gone. Cotto don't give a damn about the middleweight title. If he did he would be defending it against the best middleweights out there. Or at least against the best opponent available. But he's not. For someone who says there a fan of Alvarez you sure are selling him short. Facts don't lie. And the facts are Alvarez is on a accelerated pace to surpass Cotto and several other superstar accomplishments. Alvarez has already beaten Lara, Kirkland, Angulo, Trout and has been in the ring against the best fighter in the world (Mayweather). And all he's trying to do now is get in ring against the middleweight champion (and he gets hated on for that). And he's only 24 years old. Aside from Japanese monster Naoya Inoue name me a fighter that has beaten that level of opposition at 24 years old. At 24 years old Cotto was fighting Demetrio Ceballos and Rocky Martinez. Mediocre fighters nowhere near the level of Lara or Trout. Now tell me. What facts did I twist now?Cotto took the history making fight with Martinez, which turned out to be an exceptional business decision. He only turned it down the 2nd time because of his promotional situation. You're twisting facts again. Like I've said, I'm a huge fan of Canelo but lets not pretend he's even achieved anything on the level of Cotto. Also, I don't see Canelo negotiating with Golovkin, instead he fought the mediocre, steamrolled James Kirkland.
Cotto wanted to be the first Puerto Rican fighter to win titles in four different weight divisions. Martinez was there and available. Cotto took it. Canelo would've done exactly the same thing if in Cotto's place, and to say otherwise is to insult the intelligence of everyone here.
... and again with the age thing.
Once again... I'll rehash the same thing for the millionth time. You can't compare ages between Cotto and Canelo. Cotto turned pro at 21. That same year he suffered a serious car accident that produced career-threatening injuries, which he overcame to continue fighting. He won his first title (albeit regional) in his 14th fight against Cesar Bazan, and in his 21st fight beat Kelson Pinto for the WBO super lightweight title. His list of opponents has, and always will, put Canelo's list to shame.
Meanwhile, Canelo turned pro at 15, fattening his pro record with a long series of bums. I told you what Cotto did for his 21st fight. What was Canelo doing at the same stage? His 20th fight was against the great Francisco Villanueva (5-17-2), who Canelo had already knocked out 3 months earlier!! I guess they ran out of fresh bums, so they decided to retread some used ones. He stayed comfortably within the friendly confines of Mexico until finally venturing out to Las Vegas for his 33rd fight, against Miguel's brother, Jose Miguel.
What facts did you twist now? ALL of them.
You keep lobbing half-truths this way....... I keep bashing them over the center field wall.
It boggles the mind what some people will say and embarrass themselves in the process just to hate. Think about it. Fighter A (Alvarez) is a 16, 17 year old kid fighting as a pro against grown men twice his age. At 16, 17 years old fighter B (Cotto) is fighting fellow 16, 17 year old kids wearing head gear and using pillow sized gloves. Yet some how fighter A gets hated on. Un fucking believable.
Walk off grandslam
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
Alvarez may well surpass Cotto, but you're slagging Cotto because of his nationality not because of his record. To say Cotto should be fighting the best middleweights out there is fair enough, but hardly any fighter does that nowadays. Cotto already beat the lineal middleweight champ and the majority of people on here thought he'd lose that. When Alvarez won his light-middleweight title he defended against a string of mediocre welterweights like Gomez & Cintron.Cotto took the fight against Martinez cuz it was easy pick-ins. Everybody knew Martinez knee was gone. Cotto don't give a damn about the middleweight title. If he did he would be defending it against the best middleweights out there. Or at least against the best opponent available. But he's not. For someone who says there a fan of Alvarez you sure are selling him short. Facts don't lie. And the facts are Alvarez is on a accelerated pace to surpass Cotto and several other superstar accomplishments. Alvarez has already beaten Lara, Kirkland, Angulo, Trout and has been in the ring against the best fighter in the world (Mayweather). And all he's trying to do now is get in ring against the middleweight champion (and he gets hated on for that). And he's only 24 years old. Aside from Japanese monster Naoya Inoue name me a fighter that has beaten that level of opposition at 24 years old. At 24 years old Cotto was fighting Demetrio Ceballos and Rocky Martinez. Mediocre fighters nowhere near the level of Lara or Trout. Now tell me. What facts did I twist now?Cotto took the history making fight with Martinez, which turned out to be an exceptional business decision. He only turned it down the 2nd time because of his promotional situation. You're twisting facts again. Like I've said, I'm a huge fan of Canelo but lets not pretend he's even achieved anything on the level of Cotto. Also, I don't see Canelo negotiating with Golovkin, instead he fought the mediocre, steamrolled James Kirkland.
You're looking at little things to pick at the career of a great fighter purely because he's from Puerto Rico. I didn't catch you slagging Juan Manuel Marquez when people said he was ducking Provodnikov and he chose to fight Alvarado instead. If Cotto was Mexican you'd be licking his bollocks and you know it.
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
So that just makes it OK, than right? Anyway for you to say I'm "slagging" Cotto cuz of his nationality is 100% inaccurate. I'm "slagging" him for refusing to face Alvarez. You make Cotto Japanese or from the UK and I promise you I'm coming down on him just the same for not facing Alvarez.Alvarez may well surpass Cotto, but you're slagging Cotto because of his nationality not because of his record. To say Cotto should be fighting the best middleweights out there is fair enough, but hardly any fighter does that nowadays. Cotto already beat the lineal middleweight champ and the majority of people on here thought he'd lose that. When Alvarez won his light-middleweight title he defended against a string of mediocre welterweights like Gomez & Cintron.Cotto took the fight against Martinez cuz it was easy pick-ins. Everybody knew Martinez knee was gone. Cotto don't give a damn about the middleweight title. If he did he would be defending it against the best middleweights out there. Or at least against the best opponent available. But he's not. For someone who says there a fan of Alvarez you sure are selling him short. Facts don't lie. And the facts are Alvarez is on a accelerated pace to surpass Cotto and several other superstar accomplishments. Alvarez has already beaten Lara, Kirkland, Angulo, Trout and has been in the ring against the best fighter in the world (Mayweather). And all he's trying to do now is get in ring against the middleweight champion (and he gets hated on for that). And he's only 24 years old. Aside from Japanese monster Naoya Inoue name me a fighter that has beaten that level of opposition at 24 years old. At 24 years old Cotto was fighting Demetrio Ceballos and Rocky Martinez. Mediocre fighters nowhere near the level of Lara or Trout. Now tell me. What facts did I twist now?Cotto took the history making fight with Martinez, which turned out to be an exceptional business decision. He only turned it down the 2nd time because of his promotional situation. You're twisting facts again. Like I've said, I'm a huge fan of Canelo but lets not pretend he's even achieved anything on the level of Cotto. Also, I don't see Canelo negotiating with Golovkin, instead he fought the mediocre, steamrolled James Kirkland.
You're looking at little things to pick at the career of a great fighter purely because he's from Puerto Rico. I didn't catch you slagging Juan Manuel Marquez when people said he was ducking Provodnikov and he chose to fight Alvarado instead. If Cotto was Mexican you'd be licking his bollocks and you know it.
All this hating on Alvarez opposition is ridiculous. And it shows ignorance. True boxing fans regard his early opposition as on the job training. Once he learned what he had to learn he's done what he can to take on the best. Alvarez wanted to face Cotto back in 2002. The fight failed to materialize cuz Cotto lost to Austin Trout. So what did Alvarez do? He took on Trout. Than it was the best fighter in the world, Mayweather. That was followed by a get well fight not against a D level opponent like Delvin Rodriguez. But a B fighter in Alfredo Angulo. Than came a fight against the best fighter in the division Erislandy Lara. After trying and failing to make a fight against Cotto he settles for a fight against Kirkland. And he's still gets hated on. Un fucking believable
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
Not sure how any Cotto fan can defend this horseshit. I'm one or was. They will need another hotel room just for his head. So a non-middleweight, middleweight champion will now demand that no middleweight can weigh in at 160 as long as he is the middleweight champion.By Miguel Rivera
WBC middleweight champion Miguel Cotto (39-4, 32KOs) is not concerned with any weight related complaints that are coming from his opponents.
This Saturday night at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, Cotto will make the first defense of his world title against former champion Daniel Geale (31-3, 16KOs).
Last June, Cotto challenged Sergio Martinez for the WBC title with a catch-weight of 159-pounds in place. For the fight with Geale, a catch-weight of 157-pounds was demanded and set in motion.
Cotto was asked about the scenario of a potential opponent, like WBA/IBO champion Gennady 'GGG' Golovkin or otherwise, rejecting a catch-weight request.
"I had to do [a catch-weight] at this particular time and anyone who wants to fight me must accept a catch-weight or otherwise there is no fight," Cotto said.
Geale did not agree with Cotto's catch-weight demand, but he was forced to accept it or there wouldn't have been a fight.
“I have to be honest—if it’s not a title fight, then a catchweight is not a problem. But if you’re fighting for a middleweight title, then weight limit is 160 for that fight,” Geale said. “I find it funny. It should be at 160 but I’m not going to complain.”
Pathetic. And the WBC are such scabs. And one more And. All the A-side crap is starting to give me a headache. It’s a quantity over quality allowance for fools. Cotto is making a fool out of himself, the sport and the middleweight division PERIOD!
Just drop the strap. You dont need it anyway hostage taker.
Last edited by IamInuit; 06-02-2015 at 10:32 AM.
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
Cotto needs the belt and status as the middlewight champion to maximise his income. If he moved down to light middle, which he rightfuly should, he would earn less money against Canelo. So as long as he keeps the strap he can make unnecessary demands.
Cotto will drop GGG names in interviews to pretend that he is on Cotto's list of fighters but in reality he will not go there at all. Cotto will either lose his crown, relinquish/stripped of the belt or retire.
Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.
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Cotto's attitude and actions are 100% indefensible. You can fight at whatever catchweight you like but call yourself middleweight champ, and put a road block in the middle of the division, don't be surprised when people call a spade a spade. Fake, phony BS from Cotto who has clearly bottled it. Rare for a professional prize fighter but the guy is running around with his tail between his legs.
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
Everybody agrees Manny against Floyd would have been a much better fight in 2009. But it was a far bigger and more profitable event in 2015.So that just makes it OK, than right? Anyway for you to say I'm "slagging" Cotto cuz of his nationality is 100% inaccurate. I'm "slagging" him for refusing to face Alvarez. You make Cotto Japanese or from the UK and I promise you I'm coming down on him just the same for not facing Alvarez.Alvarez may well surpass Cotto, but you're slagging Cotto because of his nationality not because of his record. To say Cotto should be fighting the best middleweights out there is fair enough, but hardly any fighter does that nowadays. Cotto already beat the lineal middleweight champ and the majority of people on here thought he'd lose that. When Alvarez won his light-middleweight title he defended against a string of mediocre welterweights like Gomez & Cintron.Cotto took the fight against Martinez cuz it was easy pick-ins. Everybody knew Martinez knee was gone. Cotto don't give a damn about the middleweight title. If he did he would be defending it against the best middleweights out there. Or at least against the best opponent available. But he's not. For someone who says there a fan of Alvarez you sure are selling him short. Facts don't lie. And the facts are Alvarez is on a accelerated pace to surpass Cotto and several other superstar accomplishments. Alvarez has already beaten Lara, Kirkland, Angulo, Trout and has been in the ring against the best fighter in the world (Mayweather). And all he's trying to do now is get in ring against the middleweight champion (and he gets hated on for that). And he's only 24 years old. Aside from Japanese monster Naoya Inoue name me a fighter that has beaten that level of opposition at 24 years old. At 24 years old Cotto was fighting Demetrio Ceballos and Rocky Martinez. Mediocre fighters nowhere near the level of Lara or Trout. Now tell me. What facts did I twist now?Cotto took the history making fight with Martinez, which turned out to be an exceptional business decision. He only turned it down the 2nd time because of his promotional situation. You're twisting facts again. Like I've said, I'm a huge fan of Canelo but lets not pretend he's even achieved anything on the level of Cotto. Also, I don't see Canelo negotiating with Golovkin, instead he fought the mediocre, steamrolled James Kirkland.
You're looking at little things to pick at the career of a great fighter purely because he's from Puerto Rico. I didn't catch you slagging Juan Manuel Marquez when people said he was ducking Provodnikov and he chose to fight Alvarado instead. If Cotto was Mexican you'd be licking his bollocks and you know it.
All this hating on Alvarez opposition is ridiculous. And it shows ignorance. True boxing fans regard his early opposition as on the job training. Once he learned what he had to learn he's done what he can to take on the best. Alvarez wanted to face Cotto back in 2002. The fight failed to materialize cuz Cotto lost to Austin Trout. So what did Alvarez do? He took on Trout. Than it was the best fighter in the world, Mayweather. That was followed by a get well fight not against a D level opponent like Delvin Rodriguez. But a B fighter in Alfredo Angulo. Than came a fight against the best fighter in the division Erislandy Lara. After trying and failing to make a fight against Cotto he settles for a fight against Kirkland. And he's still gets hated on. Un fucking believable
Cotto is going to fight Alvarez. There's no two ways about it. It's going to happen if he beats Geale at the weekend. And the fight will be a massiv ePPV event, bigger than it would haven been a few years ago. It won't be Floyd-Manny but it'll make a ton of money more than it would have done before, and that's mainly why Cotto has waited to make the fight now.
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
If Cotto beats Geale and Canelo, I can see Cotto fight Floyd next year for the middleweight title.
Sickening.
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
Chances are he (Geale) won't. But Cotto has to stop Canelo if he wants to win. Let's face it, Cotto is on the way out. Quicker if he were to fight GGG, then there would be nothing left after he gets dominated by GGG. If Cotto wants his last big win, then knocking out Canelo would be the best bet.
Let's face it: Canelo is the upside, post-marketable name.
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Re: Cotto vs. Canelo verbal deal reached (if Cotto beats Geale)
Generally I don't have a problem with catchweights but even I think this is frigging bollocks. If you're gonna masquerade as the middleweight champ then the opponent should at least be allowed to weigh 160.
There's no penalty clause if Geale comes in above 157. So if he weighs in at 160 the WBC would still have to recognize the fight. Would Cotto/Roc Nation pull the plug? (stolen from Steve Kim)
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