Ronald Wilson Reagan=Scumball

[CFH]

Give more credit to Elton John Records,and smuggled Levi's
It was more the desire for western freedoms,then anything that Reagan did that brought down the USSR
Not to mention the Berlin Wall actually fell during Bush Sr's Precidency,not Reagans
Even then,how much better off are we?
Between the unsecured nukes,a Russian economy that doesnt have the resources to support capatilism,and the now huge Russian Mob.
At least before Reagan,we knew who had their finger on the button over there,now we dont even know who has the button

It was a calculated program of sustained military expansion that the U.S government knew the U.S.S.R. had no choice but to attempt to keep up with, while knowing that the economic situation of the U.S.S.R. would not allow for it.
The Russian's desire for "western freedoms", while no doubt playing a minor role, could not have toppled the Soviet Union. There was absolutely no history of democracy in Russia, and many would argue that there isn't democracy in Russia now.

[Trainer Monkey]

It was a calculated program of sustained military expansion that the U.S government knew the U.S.S.R. had no choice but to attempt to keep up with, while knowing that the economic situation of the U.S.S.R. would not allow for it.
The Russian's desire for "western freedoms", while no doubt playing a minor role, could not have toppled the Soviet Union. There was absolutely no history of democracy in Russia, and many would argue that there isn't democracy in Russia now.

No it wasnt,but that is the myth
We were actually pulling missiles under SALT
Its a myth,Reagan either couldnt find his ass with both hands and a map,or he blaimed all his failings on everyone else
Sorry,Reagan is a fairytale
If you were actually paying attention in the 80's,Reagan was like Bush but without the Senates rubber stamp,and a better ability to deliver his lines

[CFH]

No it wasnt,but that is the myth
We were actually pulling missiles under SALT
Its a myth,Reagan either couldnt find his ass with both hands and a map,or he blaimed all his failings on everyone else
Sorry,Reagan is a fairytale
If you were actually paying attention in the 80's,Reagan was like Bush but without the Senates rubber stamp,and a better ability to deliver his lines

In interviews I've seen Gorbachev himself say that was the principle cause of the collapse of the USSR. Most historians agree that it was economics which led to the collapse. How is it a myth?
There's also a lot more to a military than just missiles.

[Trainer Monkey]

In interviews I've seen Gorbachev himself say that was the principle cause of the collapse of the USSR. Most historians agree that it was economics which led to the collapse. How is it a myth?
There's also a lot more to a military than just missiles.

You mean like having no real natural resources except for vast Natural Gas resevoirs they couldnt get a pipeline to?
You mean those sort of economics?
You can only eat so many potatoes
Myth
The Soviet Union had very few natural resources,the graft of the higher end politicians was going to take it down eventually anyway,with or without Reagan
But thanks to the lingering resentment his policies caused in South America,Daniel Ortega is back in power,voted in clean and clear.
And all the money we pumped in to the Afghanistan Mujahadeen helped create Al-Queda
Not to mention the collapse of the Soviet economy within about 5 nanoseconds of "converting to capitalism"
Great job all around,resentful South Americans are turning to communism,Russia is run by mobsters and has no economy to speak of,and we're fighting the former terrorists in the middle east that we trained and armed
Kick ass across the board
I mean come on Ronnie gets all the credit for being President when an economic system that was doomed to collapse actually did
Lets give Ronnie some credit for things he actually did
Like selling missile parts to the Iranians
Or giving all those WMDs we blew up in the first Gulf War to the Iraqi's
Or creating so much resentment in South America two major leader recently elected are communist(so much for the big win,huh?)
Or blocking the UN investigations and sanctions over Sabbra and Shattila allowing Hezbolha to have moral legitimacy
Give the man his due

[CFH]

You mean like having no real natural resources except for vast Natural Gas resevoirs they couldnt get a pipeline to?
You mean those sort of economics?
You can only eat so many potatoes
Myth
The Soviet Union had very few natural resources,the graft of the higher end politicians was going to take it down eventually anyway,with or without Reagan
But thanks to the lingering resentment his policies caused in South America,Daniel Ortega is back in power,voted in clean and clear.
And all the money we pumped in to the Afghanistan Mujahadeen helped create Al-Queda
Not to mention the collapse of the Soviet economy within about 5 nanoseconds of "converting to capitalism"
Great job all around,resentful South Americans are turning to communism,Russia is run by mobsters and has no economy to speak of,and we're fighting the former terrorists in the middle east that we trained and armed
Kick ass across the board
I mean come on Ronnie gets all the credit for being President when an economic system that was doomed to collapse actually did
Lets give Ronnie some credit for things he actually did
Like selling missile parts to the Iranians
Or giving all those WMDs we blew up in the first Gulf War to the Iraqi's
Or creating so much resentment in South America two major leader recently elected are communist(so much for the big win,huh?)
Or blocking the UN investigations and sanctions over Sabbra and Shattila allowing Hezbolha to have moral legitimacy
Give the man his due

Are you saying the Soviet Union had few natural resources? Am I somehow misunderstand what you are trying to say? Because if you're trying to claim that the USSR was poor in natural resources then that might be one of the fucking dumbest things I have ever heard. They were rich in resources, but that doesn't mean that the infrastructure surrounding the extraction and exploitation of those resources was not crumbling because of a lack of funds. Also, because of their antagonistic relationship with the west, specifically the NATO countries, they were limited in regards to who they could conduct trade with. The pursuit of those resources, among other things, also led to a swift environmental degradation, which further hampered their ablility to produce.
As for the rest of your rant, it has little or nothing to do with the collapse of the USSR, or how the desire for "western freedoms" led to its demise -how did that work again?.
Reagan's policies on South America were in many cases ridiculous, I'll agree with you there.

[Trainer Monkey]

Are you saying the Soviet Union had few natural resources? Am I somehow misunderstand what you are trying to say? Because if you're trying to claim that the USSR was poor in natural resources then that might be one of the fucking dumbest things I have ever heard. They were rich in resources, but that doesn't mean that the infrastructure surrounding the extraction and exploitation of those resources was not crumbling because of a lack of funds. Also, because of their antagonistic relationship with the west, specifically the NATO countries, they were limited in regards to who they could conduct trade with. The pursuit of those resources, among other things, also led to a swift environmental degradation, which further hampered their ablility to produce.
As for the rest of your rant, it has little or nothing to do with the collapse of the USSR, or how the desire for "western freedoms" led to its demise -how did that work again?.
Reagan's policies on South America were in many cases ridiculous, I'll agree with you there.

Ummm even Dosteyevsky said Europe is built out of stone,and Russia is built of wood
They couldnt get to their own resources in the form of natural gas,which is about all they really had
Even now theyre having a hard time getting to it,most of it sits in Siberia
And oh do please,it wasnt Western "freedoms",it was western"Products",there was a huge underground trade for Western products,and even domestically produced rock bands behind the curtain like Aquarium,and Lady Pank
Ironic that a set of Levi's is probably less easy to come by in Vladivostok now then before the collapse

[CFH]

Ummm even Dosteyevsky said Europe is built out of stone,and Russia is built of wood
They couldnt get to their own resources in the form of natural gas,which is about all they really had
Even now theyre having a hard time getting to it,most of it sits in Siberia
And oh do please,it wasnt Western "freedoms",it was western"Products",there was a huge underground trade for Western products,and even domestically produced rock bands behind the curtain like Aquarium,and Lady Pank
Ironic that a set of Levi's is probably less easy to come by in Vladivostok now then before the collapse

"Western freedoms" was the term you used, not me. The USSR had over-exploited the easily accessable resources around the more populated areas of the country, however, with a half-decent infrastructure, one which was properly funded, those resources could have been extracted and used. The American would have no problem extracting resources from Alaska. This is a ridiculous argument.

[Trainer Monkey]

Even Don Letts of all people,hinted that the USSR wasnt going to survive the graft at the top levels in his film Rude Boy
Just like we here in the States arent surviving it right now
Well,OK,I am,but Im seeing alot of other people crashing and burning
But theres only so much to go around,and when people get bent enough they will do something about it,there just isnt as much to go around,and the Soviet hierarchy got seriously corrupt
It was bound to collapse

[Trainer Monkey]

"Western freedoms" was the term you used, not me. The USSR had over-exploited the easily accessable resources around the more populated areas of the country, however, with a half-decent infrastructure, one which was properly funded, those resources could have been extracted and used. The American would have no problem extracting resources from Alaska. This is a ridiculous argument.

We have five tons of oil up there,and we still have to pay people to even live there
You didnt know that?
The US pays people to live in Alaska
Your right its a ridiulous argument,but your on the wrong side of it

[DAVIDTUA]

why was nancy so scrawny?

[CFH]

We have five tons of oil up there,and we still have to pay people to even live there
You didnt know that?
The US pays people to live in Alaska
Your right its a ridiulous argument,but your on the wrong side of it

Aside from the obvious labor requirements, what in the fuck does people being payed to live in Alaska have to do with successfully extracting resources from there? Your arguments make no sense, using some facts to back up your assertations might help. Every time I have challenged you on one aspect of your bizarre rants, you switch topics and ignore your previous statements. You obviously have no real knowledge of the subjects which we are debating.
While no doubt corrupt, I seriously doubt the USSR was so corrupt the entire system collapsed, though I will freely admit that is played a role, along with many other factors. And by the way, that corruption would negatively effect the economic situation of the USSR, which was further exasperated by the policies of, guess who, the Reagan administration.
All countries suffer from corruption. Look at China, a nation awash in corruption and graft, I highly doubt they'll collapse any time soon, they're certainlly not showing any signs of it. And if you think the American economy is suffering the way it is in large part because of corruption at the highest levels of US government, which you seemed to imply in your previous post, then I'd be genuinely surprised if you could tie your own shoes or walk down the street without having to wear a helmet.
Does Don Letts have a history degree? What about some experience in economics or international politics? Well, then what makes him a qualified source of information? Because he makes fucking documentaries? I guess Michael Moore should be considered as an unbiased bastion of knowledge then.
Don Letts is just an old, useless punk-rocker with opinions as biased as yours or mine. Does anyone actually give a flying fuck about what he thinks?
Belligerance does not equal knowledge, try reading a book or two.
Just for the record, I don't mean to personally offend you or anything, you're simply way off base with your arguments.

[Trainer Monkey]

Aside from the obvious labor requirements, what in the fuck does people being payed to live in Alaska have to do with successfully extracting resources from there? Your arguments make no sense, using some facts to back up your assertations might help. Every time I have challenged you on one aspect of your bizarre rants, you switch topics and ignore your previous statements. You obviously have no real knowledge of the subjects which we are debating.
While no doubt corrupt, I seriously doubt the USSR was so corrupt the entire system collapsed, though I will freely admit that is played a role, along with many other factors. And by the way, that corruption would negatively effect the economic situation of the USSR, which was further exasperated by the policies of, guess who, the Reagan administration.
All countries suffer from corruption. Look at China, a nation awash in corruption and graft, I highly doubt they'll collapse any time soon, they're certainlly not showing any signs of it. And if you think the American economy is suffering the way it is in large part because of corruption at the highest levels of US government, which you seemed to imply in your previous post, then I'd be genuinely surprised if you could tie your own shoes or walk down the street without having to wear a helmet.
Does Don Letts have a history degree? What about some experience in economics or international politics? Well, then what makes him a qualified source of information? Because he makes fucking documentaries? I guess Michael Moore should be considered as an unbiased bastion of knowledge then.
Don Letts is just an old, useless punk-rocker with opinions as biased as yours or mine. Does anyone actually give a flying fuck about what he thinks?
Belligerance does not equal knowledge, try reading a book or two.
Just for the record, I don't mean to personally offend you or anything, you're simply way off base with your arguments.

He swings and he misses again
We put a massive pipeline in there in the 70's during the oil crisis,and expanded it in the 80's
Maybe you should try doing some reading of your own
Oh and Don Letts was never a punk rocker,even though he did films for the Clash
He was a Reggae dude,swing and a miss again
Your right beligerence does not equal knowledge,and if you care to share anything but beligerence any time soon,let us know

[Trainer Monkey]

He swings and he misses again
We put a massive pipeline in there in the 70's during the oil crisis,and expanded it in the 80's
Maybe you should try doing some reading of your own
Oh and Don Letts was never a punk rocker,even though he did films for the Clash
He was a Reggae dude,swing and a miss again
Your right beligerence does not equal knowledge,and if you care to share anything but beligerence any time soon,let us know

And why do you guys allways,ALLWAYS go right for Michael Moore when your losing an argument?
I dont care what Michael Moore says about much of anything except for his book drive for our troops overseas
Though I did finally see Sicko a little bit ago,he actually understates his case,sorry the wife worked for a major insurance provider,he actually makes it sound not nearly so bad as it actually is.
Sonny boy,Ive lived through Nixon,Ford,Carter,Reagan,two Bush's and Clinton
If it wasnt for Bush Jr,Reagan would stand out as the worst President,and the biggest back stabbing liar,and total incompetent we've had in the second half of the twentieth century
Bush Jr is kinda hard to beat though
He's special,and by special I of course really mean retarded
Every body who disagrees with you HAS to be a Michael Moore fan,who listens to Air America(is that even still on the air?)
Sorry sahib,life doesnt work that way,not everybody fits in to the box you want them to.
I want political news,I dont kick on Rush Limbloat,or Rhandi Rhodes(if I wanted to be yelled at by a woman with an annoying voice Id call my mother in law up),I check the news wires
To quote an old 3rd Base song,"Ive got a strong mind,it doesnt need to be spoonfed,and I can read it doesnt have to be read"

[CFH]

He swings and he misses again
We put a massive pipeline in there in the 70's during the oil crisis,and expanded it in the 80's
Maybe you should try doing some reading of your own
Oh and Don Letts was never a punk rocker,even though he did films for the Clash
He was a Reggae dude,swing and a miss again
Your right beligerence does not equal knowledge,and if you care to share anything but beligerence any time soon,let us know

The fact that the U.S. was able to build a pipeline to Alaska and was further able to expand it only supports my point that because of proper funding and an established, well maintained infrastructure the US was able to exploit its natural resources, even if they were far away from its population centers. This is something the USSR was not able to do, because all their money went to their military, thanks to the actions of the Reagan administration. I don't know how many times I have made this point already, but you haven't addressed it yet.
I don't know if your punchy, senile, or just plain stupid, you come across as all three, but you still have not addressed any of the points I have brought up in regards to the USSR. First they collapsed because their people wanted freedom, then it was corruption, right dumbass?
In regards to Michael Moore, he is a documentary filmmaker, a very successful one, but he is a pristine example of how biased and just plain wrong filmmakers can be. Not once did I say you were a Michael Moore fan, however he is a completely valid example since you were the one who brought up the views of another documentary filmmaker. Again, a person whose views do not mean jack shit in this discussion. I'm sure an esteemed social historian like yourself would be aware of the close relationship between punk rock and reggae as well, so I don't think I need to address that point. I don't know much about Don Letts, but his OPINION is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Have you ever taken a history course? Ever read any SCHOLARLY publications? Just because you believe something does not make it true. You have yet to bring A SINGLE FUCKING FACT into this discussion, nor have you adequately address any of my points, you ignorant moron. For the record, history is one of the two subjects majoring it at university. You do know what a university is, right? They're those big, shiny buildings you probably stumble past on the way to collect your social security check.
But you're a "boxing trainer" right? So we should bow before the altar of your vast and superior knowledge.
Don't bother to reply unless you are actually going to respond to one of the many points I have already made, no one needs to have any more of their time wasted by going through another of your old man rants. I'm not even going to address how laughable it is that you chose to quote a song lyrics about someone possessing a strong mind, just because you say it is so does not make it true. I mean, fuck, you check the news wires, that'll provide you with much more knowledge than an actual education.
I feel like I am arguing about the best investment strategies with a homeless person. Remember Monkey, try to respond with documented FACTS, not nonsensical ramblings.

[CFH]

And why do you guys allways,ALLWAYS go right for Michael Moore when your losing an argument?
I dont care what Michael Moore says about much of anything except for his book drive for our troops overseas
Though I did finally see Sicko a little bit ago,he actually understates his case,sorry the wife worked for a major insurance provider,he actually makes it sound not nearly so bad as it actually is.
Sonny boy,Ive lived through Nixon,Ford,Carter,Reagan,two Bush's and Clinton
If it wasnt for Bush Jr,Reagan would stand out as the worst President,and the biggest back stabbing liar,and total incompetent we've had in the second half of the twentieth century
Bush Jr is kinda hard to beat though
He's special,and by special I of course really mean retarded
Every body who disagrees with you HAS to be a Michael Moore fan,who listens to Air America(is that even still on the air?)
Sorry sahib,life doesnt work that way,not everybody fits in to the box you want them to.
I want political news,I dont kick on Rush Limbloat,or Rhandi Rhodes(if I wanted to be yelled at by a woman with an annoying voice Id call my mother in law up),I check the news wires
To quote an old 3rd Base song,"Ive got a strong mind,it doesnt need to be spoonfed,and I can read it doesnt have to be read"

Who are "you guys"? Last time I checked its only me arguing with you. And don't suppose I'm some right-wing pseudo-republican, because I'm not; I live in a socialist country, and I'm about as left-wing as one can get on SOME issues. I guess if by "you guys", you mean us folk who base our opinions on facts and knowledge, then I suppose it's fair.
By the way, it's you're, not your, and always has one L. Genius.