Ronald Wilson Reagan=Scumball

[Trainer Monkey]

It was a calculated program of sustained military expansion that the U.S government knew the U.S.S.R. had no choice but to attempt to keep up with, while knowing that the economic situation of the U.S.S.R. would not allow for it.
The Russian's desire for "western freedoms", while no doubt playing a minor role, could not have toppled the Soviet Union. There was absolutely no history of democracy in Russia, and many would argue that there isn't democracy in Russia now.

No it wasnt,but that is the myth
We were actually pulling missiles under SALT
Its a myth,Reagan either couldnt find his ass with both hands and a map,or he blaimed all his failings on everyone else
Sorry,Reagan is a fairytale
If you were actually paying attention in the 80's,Reagan was like Bush but without the Senates rubber stamp,and a better ability to deliver his lines

[CFH]

No it wasnt,but that is the myth
We were actually pulling missiles under SALT
Its a myth,Reagan either couldnt find his ass with both hands and a map,or he blaimed all his failings on everyone else
Sorry,Reagan is a fairytale
If you were actually paying attention in the 80's,Reagan was like Bush but without the Senates rubber stamp,and a better ability to deliver his lines

In interviews I've seen Gorbachev himself say that was the principle cause of the collapse of the USSR. Most historians agree that it was economics which led to the collapse. How is it a myth?
There's also a lot more to a military than just missiles.

[Trainer Monkey]

In interviews I've seen Gorbachev himself say that was the principle cause of the collapse of the USSR. Most historians agree that it was economics which led to the collapse. How is it a myth?
There's also a lot more to a military than just missiles.

You mean like having no real natural resources except for vast Natural Gas resevoirs they couldnt get a pipeline to?
You mean those sort of economics?
You can only eat so many potatoes
Myth
The Soviet Union had very few natural resources,the graft of the higher end politicians was going to take it down eventually anyway,with or without Reagan
But thanks to the lingering resentment his policies caused in South America,Daniel Ortega is back in power,voted in clean and clear.
And all the money we pumped in to the Afghanistan Mujahadeen helped create Al-Queda
Not to mention the collapse of the Soviet economy within about 5 nanoseconds of "converting to capitalism"
Great job all around,resentful South Americans are turning to communism,Russia is run by mobsters and has no economy to speak of,and we're fighting the former terrorists in the middle east that we trained and armed
Kick ass across the board
I mean come on Ronnie gets all the credit for being President when an economic system that was doomed to collapse actually did
Lets give Ronnie some credit for things he actually did
Like selling missile parts to the Iranians
Or giving all those WMDs we blew up in the first Gulf War to the Iraqi's
Or creating so much resentment in South America two major leader recently elected are communist(so much for the big win,huh?)
Or blocking the UN investigations and sanctions over Sabbra and Shattila allowing Hezbolha to have moral legitimacy
Give the man his due

[CFH]

You mean like having no real natural resources except for vast Natural Gas resevoirs they couldnt get a pipeline to?
You mean those sort of economics?
You can only eat so many potatoes
Myth
The Soviet Union had very few natural resources,the graft of the higher end politicians was going to take it down eventually anyway,with or without Reagan
But thanks to the lingering resentment his policies caused in South America,Daniel Ortega is back in power,voted in clean and clear.
And all the money we pumped in to the Afghanistan Mujahadeen helped create Al-Queda
Not to mention the collapse of the Soviet economy within about 5 nanoseconds of "converting to capitalism"
Great job all around,resentful South Americans are turning to communism,Russia is run by mobsters and has no economy to speak of,and we're fighting the former terrorists in the middle east that we trained and armed
Kick ass across the board
I mean come on Ronnie gets all the credit for being President when an economic system that was doomed to collapse actually did
Lets give Ronnie some credit for things he actually did
Like selling missile parts to the Iranians
Or giving all those WMDs we blew up in the first Gulf War to the Iraqi's
Or creating so much resentment in South America two major leader recently elected are communist(so much for the big win,huh?)
Or blocking the UN investigations and sanctions over Sabbra and Shattila allowing Hezbolha to have moral legitimacy
Give the man his due

Are you saying the Soviet Union had few natural resources? Am I somehow misunderstand what you are trying to say? Because if you're trying to claim that the USSR was poor in natural resources then that might be one of the fucking dumbest things I have ever heard. They were rich in resources, but that doesn't mean that the infrastructure surrounding the extraction and exploitation of those resources was not crumbling because of a lack of funds. Also, because of their antagonistic relationship with the west, specifically the NATO countries, they were limited in regards to who they could conduct trade with. The pursuit of those resources, among other things, also led to a swift environmental degradation, which further hampered their ablility to produce.
As for the rest of your rant, it has little or nothing to do with the collapse of the USSR, or how the desire for "western freedoms" led to its demise -how did that work again?.
Reagan's policies on South America were in many cases ridiculous, I'll agree with you there.

[Trainer Monkey]

Are you saying the Soviet Union had few natural resources? Am I somehow misunderstand what you are trying to say? Because if you're trying to claim that the USSR was poor in natural resources then that might be one of the fucking dumbest things I have ever heard. They were rich in resources, but that doesn't mean that the infrastructure surrounding the extraction and exploitation of those resources was not crumbling because of a lack of funds. Also, because of their antagonistic relationship with the west, specifically the NATO countries, they were limited in regards to who they could conduct trade with. The pursuit of those resources, among other things, also led to a swift environmental degradation, which further hampered their ablility to produce.
As for the rest of your rant, it has little or nothing to do with the collapse of the USSR, or how the desire for "western freedoms" led to its demise -how did that work again?.
Reagan's policies on South America were in many cases ridiculous, I'll agree with you there.

Ummm even Dosteyevsky said Europe is built out of stone,and Russia is built of wood
They couldnt get to their own resources in the form of natural gas,which is about all they really had
Even now theyre having a hard time getting to it,most of it sits in Siberia
And oh do please,it wasnt Western "freedoms",it was western"Products",there was a huge underground trade for Western products,and even domestically produced rock bands behind the curtain like Aquarium,and Lady Pank
Ironic that a set of Levi's is probably less easy to come by in Vladivostok now then before the collapse

[CFH]

Ummm even Dosteyevsky said Europe is built out of stone,and Russia is built of wood
They couldnt get to their own resources in the form of natural gas,which is about all they really had
Even now theyre having a hard time getting to it,most of it sits in Siberia
And oh do please,it wasnt Western "freedoms",it was western"Products",there was a huge underground trade for Western products,and even domestically produced rock bands behind the curtain like Aquarium,and Lady Pank
Ironic that a set of Levi's is probably less easy to come by in Vladivostok now then before the collapse

"Western freedoms" was the term you used, not me. The USSR had over-exploited the easily accessable resources around the more populated areas of the country, however, with a half-decent infrastructure, one which was properly funded, those resources could have been extracted and used. The American would have no problem extracting resources from Alaska. This is a ridiculous argument.

[Trainer Monkey]

"Western freedoms" was the term you used, not me. The USSR had over-exploited the easily accessable resources around the more populated areas of the country, however, with a half-decent infrastructure, one which was properly funded, those resources could have been extracted and used. The American would have no problem extracting resources from Alaska. This is a ridiculous argument.

We have five tons of oil up there,and we still have to pay people to even live there
You didnt know that?
The US pays people to live in Alaska
Your right its a ridiulous argument,but your on the wrong side of it

[Trainer Monkey]

Even Don Letts of all people,hinted that the USSR wasnt going to survive the graft at the top levels in his film Rude Boy
Just like we here in the States arent surviving it right now
Well,OK,I am,but Im seeing alot of other people crashing and burning
But theres only so much to go around,and when people get bent enough they will do something about it,there just isnt as much to go around,and the Soviet hierarchy got seriously corrupt
It was bound to collapse