Boxing and brain damage.

[holmcall]

This is taken, in part, from an esssay I included in a Boxing Book I wrote some time ago:

"The condition, which occurs in people who have suffered multiple concussions, commonly manifests itself as dementia or declining mental ability. It also can result in Parkinson’s tremors and lack of coordination. But, plainly stated, it is dementia pugilistica (aka boxer’s syndrome), nothing more and nothing less. It’s a condition caused by being on the receiving end of too many blows to the head, and it’s classically seen in boxers. It is horrific.

"Chronic traumatic brain injury is the most serious health concern in boxing today. While other injuries such as cuts and fractures can be repaired, brain tissue, once damaged, remains damaged. The boxer can recover from the broken nose; severe brain damage is permanent. A single blow or knockout punch, while sometimes fatal, rarely causes the kind of long-term damage that results in this condition. Rather, it is the accumulation of blows, endured over a period of time, both in actual fights and during the many rounds of gym training that is more likely to cause it.

"Now it’s not pleasant to say where that dark place is. Some refer to it colloquially as Palookaville, but it’s far worse than that. Oh, no, this place is at the end of a one-way, irreversible descent, ending where cerebral atrophy occurs and where the brain rapidly shrinks with dead cells dissolving into liquid. Finally and mercifully, the all-but-dead brain eventually begins to shut down, and a decision must be made to remove life support, which in turn will result in cardiac arrest.

"And that is where it all finally ends. No bell tolls with the final ten count for these fallen warriors. Here, the thousands of rounds in the gym during which the blows landed upon your skull offset any possible lingering feeling of invincibility. Here, there is neither denial nor hope. No more triumphs. No romanticizing. The bulb flickers, dims, and dies away. All becomes dark."


I can't help thinking of Johnny Saxon who recently passed away in a nursing home in Florida. He had been diagnosed with PD. He died alone with no one at his side af far as I know.

[Boom Boom]

I agree that fighter/trainers should be informed no doubt, I think a lot of fighter do experience symptoms like slurred speech or memory loss and know it themselves, but still continue to fight. It a personal choice imo. I do think that heavy on a regular basis over the course of many years can take a toll, infrequent sparring shouldnt have any long term effect.

[Taeth]

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

Getting hit in the back of the head probably what caused, normally when you get punched its the cerebellum part of the brain that hits the skull because its in the back of the head, and the brain moves backwards when your punched. The cerebellum control your motor skills, balance ,etc. When you get hit in the back of the head the way McCellan was the front of his brain was contacting the skull, and the reason that is so dangerous is because in front of the brain is what is known as the cerebral cortex or the thought process part of the brain, and if that gets too badly damage all higher level though process is either reduced or destroyed, which makes you basically a vegetable.

Also to people like Boom Boom, you can't compare the damage a cell phone does to the damage boxing does. Cell phones don't emit that much radiation compared % of the things that are around us, they can increase your chances of getting cancer, but on a minimal scale. How many people who have been using cell phones for 20 years have alzheimers or parkinsons, how many people using cell phones have brain damage?

[Taeth]

I agree that fighter/trainers should be informed no doubt, I think a lot of fighter do experience symptoms like slurred speech or memory loss and know it themselves, but still continue to fight. It a personal choice imo. I do think that heavy on a regular basis over the course of many years can take a toll, infrequent sparring shouldnt have any long term effect.

Getting hit has long term effects, thats what I am saying if you spar once every 3 months you might not do any long term damage, but who spars only once every 3 months? Also slurred speech isn't one of the strongest signs of brain damage. Its one of the most mistaken attributes to brain damage in boxing. People like Evander HOlyfield will be slurring in one interview, but talk fine in another, its because sometimes they are tired(best example is Chuck Liddell), sometimes they are being medicated for their injuries, or they have had a long day.

[Boom Boom]

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

Getting hit in the back of the head probably what caused, normally when you get punched its the cerebellum part of the brain that hits the skull because its in the back of the head, and the brain moves backwards when your punched. The cerebellum control your motor skills, balance ,etc. When you get hit in the back of the head the way McCellan was the front of his brain was contacting the skull, and the reason that is so dangerous is because in front of the brain is what is known as the cerebral cortex or the thought process part of the brain, and if that gets too badly damage all higher level though process is either reduced or destroyed, which makes you basically a vegetable.

Also to people like Boom Boom, you can't compare the damage a cell phone does to the damage boxing does. Cell phones don't emit that much radiation compared % of the things that are around us, they can increase your chances of getting cancer, but on a minimal scale. How many people who have been using cell phones for 20 years have alzheimers or parkinsons, how many people using cell phones have brain damage?

Maybe that wasnt the best example, but my point is there are risks in everything. I know more people that have been permenantely injured in a car accident than have brain damage. Im not downplaying the severity of it though, cause yes it is a real thing that does happen to some fighters.

[Taeth]

To some degree it happens to most fighters. Not always does it lead to severe problems, but IMO its not worth dumbing yourself down for anything... except maybe booze.

[El Kabong]

The main danger in getting hit in the back of the head is the brain stem is right there which is the control board for the central nervous system. The occipital lobe is also back there which is why G-Man is now blind from being hit in the back of the head.


Since the stem is where the brain is anchored it stands to reason the brain won't slosh around as much if you hit it from the back but it'll cause more damage as the back of the head is the most vulnerable part. The frontal lobe controls emotions and memory retention which is important but not as important as telling your heart to beat and your lungs to take in air which is what the brain stem does.

[DaxxKahn]

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

Contrary to popular belief and some outdated reports it is not glove size that really matters when it comes to the damage....a pair of 18oz gloves will cause as much damage as a pair of 10oz over a long period of time...Glove size really only helps during the duration of the bout....

The constant sloshing of the brain is what causes the damage....

Punch Drunk Syndrome/Pugilistic Dementia- is from a long periods of abuse...most signs show up after 10 or so years in those effected

It can be developed one of two ways...

1. Abundance of concussions in a short period of time

2. Exposure to blows to the head not hard enough to cause a concussion but hard enough to cause the brain to move out of it's comfortable status

It is actually the second of the two that is more likely to cause the damage since the first one will force the body to stop taking abuse before the damage becomes to severe....(Those guys that are KO'd 5 times in a row and can not get licensed)

I actually did a study of it in College as a theseus for one of my classes....

They claim to find new things out all the time and reword things to un needed extents but it always comes back the same in the end......

Too much hits to the head....Glove size really has little effect in protecting a fighter from brain damage unless he has a very short career in mind

[Spicoli]

Just ask Troy Aikmen about concussive damage.Football players take severe damage as well but on a large scale recieve no where near the negative stigma of professional fighters.Their are endless contributing factors that can cause problems before a guy even steps into the ring....draining weight,over training to begin with Imo.

Head gear seems a pro/con ??Effectivly a punch is landing on a bigger mass,even partial contact rattles the brain.Seems to protect more so against cuts,visual damage but the grey matter is still dislodged off contact.

[holmcall]

To some degree it happens to most fighters. Not always does it lead to severe problems, but IMO its not worth dumbing yourself down for anything... except maybe booze.

The idea is to concuss another fighter without killing him. That's what it all boils down to. When you enter the ring, that risk presents itself immediately. When you do almost anything else, the risk is not there. Boxing and the MMA stuff increases the risk incredibly. It is what it is and the risk is part of the culture of boxing. If we cannot accept that, then boxing should be abolished. I accept it.

[Taeth]

Just ask Troy Aikmen about concussive damage.Football players take severe damage as well but on a large scale recieve no where near the negative stigma of professional fighters.Their are endless contributing factors that can cause problems before a guy even steps into the ring....draining weight,over training to begin with Imo.

Head gear seems a pro/con ??Effectivly a punch is landing on a bigger mass,even partial contact rattles the brain.Seems to protect more so against cuts,visual damage but the grey matter is still dislodged off contact.

He has had what three concussions? A fighter can have that many in one fight, it doesn't receive the stigma because its nowhere near as bad, and even football is a sport that is now considered a no-no. Actually helmets help with brain damage, hence why you should wear a helmet when riding a bike or motor bike. If you don't believe try falling on your head without a helmet, and then with one, it acts like a cushion, and your brain doesn't move as much. They actually make a bigger deal about football players getting concusions than they do about boxers or guys like Wladimir Klitschko would never fight again. Because everytime you get a concusion its easier to get another one, and they get progressively more dangerous.

Also its not the glove size, but how its made, sparring gloves actually cushion the blow, they have padding that absorbs a significant portion of the power that normally would land on someone. A pro glove is harder, and those there is less of a cushioning effect, and that does make a huge difference, there is a reason why it doesn't effect you as much, and that does mean less brain injury.

[porkypara]

I am reading this book by a neurologist, and he is saying that boxing absolutely a no-no in terms of what it does to your brain... obviously. However I would like to raise the fact that boxing takes it biggest toll on the brain long after you quit doing it. It does lasting damage to the hippocampus and cerebellum which is why it is likely to cause Alzheimers and Parkinsons.

So I am bringing this up because people criticized in particular Freddie Roach for what he has said about the health of certain fighters, but I think while reading this book that I am not going to continue sparring for one, but also guys like Hopkins might be wise to leave the sport asap. Regardless of how hard it is to hit Hopkins he has been fighting pro for 20 years, most of it at the top level of the sport where guys hit harder, and do more damage. I am really worried for guys I admire like him, Holyfield, and other guys like Margarito who are really going to suffer in their late 40's and 50's. All pro fighters suffer multiple times the brain damage an average person does, and even guys like Leonard who have escaped rather unscathed have far less intellectual capacity than they would have, had they not put on a pair of gloves. I feel these are important things for people in boxing to know, and it seems avoided way too much.

Brave choise of subject.

I remember after losing a hard amateur fight my whole head was hurting so bad I could not even open my jaw wide enough to fit my food in.


Point is if you get hit in the head at all its not going to do you any good in the long term.

Thats boxing.

[Beanflicker]

Saying things like "well you can get brain damage in other sports too" is such a chicken-sh!t, cop out answer IMO.

Boxing (and MMA) are the only sports where the object is to give someone brain damage. Thats the truth. You can watch football without seeing a bone jarring hit, and no one will care. You can watch hockey without a bodycheck or a fight and no one will care.

When someone doesn't get hurt in boxing, we call it boring. Its not interesting to watch. People watch boxing to see people get hurt, and boxers step in the ring to hurt their opponent. There is no two ways about it. The guys who box with the correct philosophy, to hit and not get hit, people find boring.

Thats why in a way, and it pains me to say this because I love boxing, I think MMA (ufc, ect) is probably the wave of the future because there is much less punishment taken to the head.

[DaxxKahn]

Saying things like "well you can get brain damage in other sports too" is such a chicken-sh!t, cop out answer IMO.

Boxing (and MMA) are the only sports where the object is to give someone brain damage. Thats the truth. You can watch football without seeing a bone jarring hit, and no one will care. You can watch hockey without a bodycheck or a fight and no one will care.

When someone doesn't get hurt in boxing, we call it boring. Its not interesting to watch. People watch boxing to see people get hurt, and boxers step in the ring to hurt their opponent. There is no two ways about it. The guys who box with the correct philosophy, to hit and not get hit, people find boring.

Thats why in a way, and it pains me to say this because I love boxing, I think MMA (ufc, ect) is probably the wave of the future because there is much less punishment taken to the head.

The whole object of the sport of Boxing and MMA is not to inflict brain damage...anyone who thinks so has no REAL understanding of the sport...They have simply an urge to see someone permenatly injured and that is an issue of their own.....

Sure everyone likes to see a KO but no one wants to see someone injured severly.....Brain Damage from long term just happens to be a side effect that goes along with being hit so often...the body is a machine and like any machine it can only take so much....Athletes that take better care of themselves deal with it better...

In FACT most NHL hocky players recieve harder hits that cause more damage to the head then the average KO punch....It is often rare that a KO punch in itself has any long lasting effects...there is usually some sort of damage already in place prior if that does happen

The sport of Boxing is one that proves the better man/woman, it is one that shows skill and how hard a person has worked in perfecting their craft...it shows who is physically able to bring their body and reflexes to the greater point.....It is not to cause brain damage on your opponent....

In MMA most genuine fans of the sport and not the casual armchair fan appreciate a well executed submission just as much if not more in most cases

[Beanflicker]

The whole object of the sport of Boxing and MMA is not to inflict brain damage...anyone who thinks so has no REAL understanding of the sport...They have simply an urge to see someone permenatly injured and that is an issue of their own.....

Sure everyone likes to see a KO but no one wants to see someone injured severly.....Brain Damage from long term just happens to be a side effect that goes along with being hit so often...the body is a machine and like any machine it can only take so much....Athletes that take better care of themselves deal with it better...

In FACT most NHL hocky players recieve harder hits that cause more damage to the head then the average KO punch....It is often rare that a KO punch in itself has any long lasting effects...there is usually some sort of damage already in place prior if that does happen

The sport of Boxing is one that proves the better man/woman, it is one that shows skill and how hard a person has worked in perfecting their craft...it shows who is physically able to bring their body and reflexes to the greater point.....It is not to cause brain damage on your opponent....

In MMA most genuine fans of the sport and not the casual armchair fan appreciate a well executed submission just as much if not more in most cases

A KO means a concussion, which is brain damage, and a KO is the main goal of boxing. There is no better win in the eyes of the fans than a KO.

Yes boxing shows how hard a person has worked to hone their skill and reflexes, but why do they do it? To be better prepared to KO or incapacitate another human being.

You say hockey players often take bigger hits (and in some cases maybe they do, the Lindros bros in particular have had bad concussion-riden pasts), but how many former NHL'ers do you see with slurred speech, or that can't dress themselves when they hit 55? How many NHLers do you see die on the ice from a head injury? Boxing has the stats to prove how dangerous and brutal it is.