Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac

[Althugz]

Floyd pretty much stopped knocking people out when he went north of 130. Manny moved up to 130 and beyond and his KO percentage improved and he's now beating up elite welterweights.

He trains like an animal way way beyond normal compared to other fighters.

That is such a bullshit statement - How do you measure how hard he is working compared to the next fighter? It's a highly arrogant statement to make. Are you also saying that the reason he is knocking so many bigger guys out is because he "works harder" than them? So basically if Mallignagi worked out harder he would have KO'd more opponents too

[UKPH]

@althougz

Pac has always have good K.O ratio coz
he's a brawler a puncher fighter always want to attack guy, he's no defensive specialist or can box like Floyd nor Malignaggi also have speed accuracy without the problem of weight draining at Welters like others had.

[Kirkland Laing]

"Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Pacquiao fought at weights ranging from 106 to 144 pounds. Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Mayweather fought at weights ranging from 106 to 150 pounds."

From Thomas Hauser

Floyd pretty much stopped knocking people out when he went north of 130. Manny moved up to 130 and beyond and his KO percentage improved and he's now beating up elite welterweights.

That can be explained by their styles - Pac is a non-stop attack merchant, Floyd is defensive minded.

As a general rule fighters don't keep their power as they move up in weight. Manny is beating the shit out of elite welterweights. Almost every time he hit Cotto he was hurting him, he almost stopped him in the second round. That's just not normal.

[Kirkland Laing]

Floyd pretty much stopped knocking people out when he went north of 130. Manny moved up to 130 and beyond and his KO percentage improved and he's now beating up elite welterweights.

Because Pac is just that good.

Simultaneously ruling 126, 135 and 147 is more astonishing but somebody has done it before.


IF he's bloating in betweein fights training 2 hrs per day and drinking as opten as he want then we might wonder...but he's not. He trains like an animal way way beyond normal compared to other fighters.


There's a logical explanation on why he's performing this way and its not based on speculation.

Al Bernstein recently wrote. “Manny Pacquiao is one of the hardest working and most disciplined fighters in the sport. Manny Pacquiao’s success as he moved up in weight has been fueled mostly by a change in style and tactics rather than added strength. One of the most astonishing things to me is the folks who somehow believe that all of a sudden it’s reasonable to assume that Pacquiao, above all other boxers, needs a special set of testing rules to participate in a big fight. No performance enhancing drugs can change your technique. It was not power that made the difference. The difference was speed, ring generalship, combination punching, and a vastly improved defense.”

-From Thomas Hauser article

Yes, he's the hardest-working fighter in the sport, like Roger Clemens was the hardest working pitcher in baseball and Barry Bonds the hardest working hitter. Pac is so hard working he only spends half the time that all other elite fighters do making movies and records, campaigning for political office etc. And all those marathon eight week training camps! Who ever heard of another fighter having an eight week training camp?

[Fenster]

Floyd pretty much stopped knocking people out when he went north of 130. Manny moved up to 130 and beyond and his KO percentage improved and he's now beating up elite welterweights.

That can be explained by their styles - Pac is a non-stop attack merchant, Floyd is defensive minded.

As a general rule fighters don't keep their power as they move up in weight. Manny is beating the shit out of elite welterweights. Almost every time he hit Cotto he was hurting him, he almost stopped him in the second round. That's just not normal.

Cotto never had a great chin. It would have been more surprising if Pac didn't hurt him, considering what we saw against Hatton and Oscar.

As a general rule fighters punches don't have the same effect against naturally bigger men, but there have been plenty of fighters moving through the weights stopping bigger guys - Hearns, Duran, Oscar, etc...

Maybe Pac is a drug cheat. But taking into account his style and the fact he's been sparking guys his entire career, he's the perfect candidate for a fighter retaining his power.

[generalbulldog]

BTW, does anyone knows what happened to the emails from Pac's team supposedly wanting to keep his failed drug test a secret?

I sure wonder what happened to that claim? Surely it would be big news now and uncovered if it was true? Didn't Teddy Atlas say he saw them?

[OumaFan]

David Diaz took the punches pretty well actually, was he on roids then? Oscar took them pretty well. Hatton was an anomaly compared to the rest of his career. And Cotto probably could have gone the distance, granted Pacquaio's power did look good in that fight. I don't remember him being close to stopping Cotto in the second though.

Also his KO rate has always been pretty damn good against guys not named JMM. After his "step up" against Ledwaba he had 11 KO's in 15 fights against good opp, the non KO's were Sanchez, first Morales, second Barrera and Larios. And honestly you can make reasonable excuses for some of those fights. Morales of that first fight was unlikely to be stopped by just about anybody, second Barrera fight he seemed content to cruise a lot more than usual, the Sanchez fight was just odd and dirty and ended early.

I actually would be more surprised if he hadn't been on something, he obviously looks like he's hiding something. But just saying, all the speculation outside of that can be argued against easily, the putting on weight thing is not that hard to counter and really so is the power thing. One punch power is far from the reason he stopped ODLH, it took 9 rounds of bludgeoning to stop David Diaz, he took out Hatton early but Hatton had just been badly hurt by Juan Lazcano and hurt by lesser punchers like Collazo, and Cotto never had the greatest chin and still could have finished the fight.

[skel1983]

Floyd pretty much stopped knocking people out when he went north of 130. Manny moved up to 130 and beyond and his KO percentage improved and he's now beating up elite welterweights.

Because Pac is just that good.

Simultaneously ruling 126, 135 and 147 is more astonishing but somebody has done it before.


IF he's bloating in betweein fights training 2 hrs per day and drinking as opten as he want then we might wonder...but he's not. He trains like an animal way way beyond normal compared to other fighters.


There's a logical explanation on why he's performing this way and its not based on speculation.

Al Bernstein recently wrote. “Manny Pacquiao is one of the hardest working and most disciplined fighters in the sport. Manny Pacquiao’s success as he moved up in weight has been fueled mostly by a change in style and tactics rather than added strength. One of the most astonishing things to me is the folks who somehow believe that all of a sudden it’s reasonable to assume that Pacquiao, above all other boxers, needs a special set of testing rules to participate in a big fight. No performance enhancing drugs can change your technique. It was not power that made the difference. The difference was speed, ring generalship, combination punching, and a vastly improved defense.”

-From Thomas Hauser article

Yes, he's the hardest-working fighter in the sport, like Roger Clemens was the hardest working pitcher in baseball and Barry Bonds the hardest working hitter. Pac is so hard working he only spends half the time that all other elite fighters do making movies and records, campaigning for political office etc. And all those marathon eight week training camps! Who ever heard of another fighter having an eight week training camp?

8-9 week camps are the norm, the only fighters who have longer camps who have more weight to shift.

[Kirkland Laing]

That can be explained by their styles - Pac is a non-stop attack merchant, Floyd is defensive minded.

As a general rule fighters don't keep their power as they move up in weight. Manny is beating the shit out of elite welterweights. Almost every time he hit Cotto he was hurting him, he almost stopped him in the second round. That's just not normal.

Cotto never had a great chin. It would have been more surprising if Pac didn't hurt him, considering what we saw against Hatton and Oscar.

As a general rule fighters punches don't have the same effect against naturally bigger men, but there have been plenty of fighters moving through the weights stopping bigger guys - Hearns, Duran, Oscar, etc...

Maybe Pac is a drug cheat. But taking into account his style and the fact he's been sparking guys his entire career, he's the perfect candidate for a fighter retaining his power.

But when you saw Manny vs. Cotto it was the guy who started at 106 that had all the power and Cotto looked like he was the one who came up from 106. I just don't see how you can go from moving up to featherweight, losing to a shot Erik Morales and having a 39-3-2 record with 30 kos in 44 fights at weights from 106 to 130 and then going 11-0 with eight kos against higher weights. I think he moved up to 130, lost to Morales, realised he had nothing at the weight and started cheating.

[mnmc10]

pac has been plague by weight issues on the lower weights. he just out grew lower weights. during those days he struggled to get his weight down hence losing stock stamina for the fight.

pac is an explosive boxer style wise he needs plenty of stamina to be effective. goin higher than 130lbs was easy on his body, he didnt needed to lose all that weight.

brawler/punch in bunches needs speed and stamina, higher weight division less weight draining equals more stamina and more speed.

alot of his previous opponents said that pac didnt hit that hard. he just hits so fast and too many.

i guess pac took very little peds when he fought odlh and jmm, took too many when he fought hatton and cotto. lol


"As a general rule fighters don't keep their power as they move up in weight."

they lose speed as you move up too, but the guys in the higher weights are naturally slower than smaller guys. so pac is usually faster than the naturally heavier guys.