Quote Originally Posted by Beanflicker View Post
Quote Originally Posted by mikeeod View Post
This is where the argument goes south. I give Floyd credit as a great fighter, even ATG. I acknowledge that he didn't duck anyone and that he faced good opposition, superior to someone like Roy Jones jr. I can even see where individuals would disagree with me and value Floyd's dominance over what I feel is clearly better quality of opposition for Hop and Manny. Where it gets ridiculous is when people try to act like it is such an unheard of or unrealistic debate. Where it gets ludicrous is when people go the ultimate of hysteria and fantasy land and say Floyd is greater and has accomplished more than guys like Robinson, Ali, Armstrong...etc. It just isn't worth debating with someone who is so biased and emotionally involved with a fighter that they can't keep the conversation semi-rational. No way will any knowledgeable, unbiased fan/historian EVER rank Floyd higher than those guys mentioned above. They beat numerous prime HOFers and have more knockouts than Floyd has fights.
I'm not saying it's an unrealistic debate between Floyd, Roy and Hopkins, but I don't see Manny on par with those guys. Floyd and Roy were absolutely untouchable in their primes, Hopkins was untouchable for most of his prime and even now at nearly 50, Pac has been KTFO in all stages of his career and outboxed by several guys - including a guy that Floyd Mayweather fought and outclassed so badly it was embarrassing.

I don't see how it's fair to penalize a guy for not fighting certain people when he made a legit effort to make the fight happen. People get on their soap box and talk about the old timers like Robinson, Armstrong, ect. You think they fought everyone they could have? You don't think they avoided people? Most people just don't know their history.
Had to address this response regarding old timers avoiding people. Those individuals you mentioned, I'm sure, missed one or two guys (maybe). Let's take an unbiased look at who Ray, Henry and Floyd fought and what stage of their careers the opponents were.
SRR: Prime Kid Gavilan (HOF), Prime Gene Fullmer (HOF), Prime Lamotta (HOF and up at Lamottas weight), Prime Carmen Basilio (HOF), Fritzie Zivic, Prime Marty Servo, past his prime Armstrong, Prime Sammy Angott, Prime Bobo Olson, Rocky Graziano, Charlie Fusari and Prime Joey Maxim (HOF) at Joey's weightclass.
Henry Armstrong: Prime Beau Jack (HOF), Prime SRR (HOF/GOAT), Sammy Angott, Tippy Larkin, Lew Jenkins (HOF), Fritzie Zivic, Prime Cerefino Garcia, Prime Lou Ambers and Prime Barney Ross (HOF, ATG).
Floyd: Prime Chico (undefeated, #3 P4P, HOF?), Prime Ricky Hatton (undefeated #6 P4P), Canelo Alvarez (undefeated), slightly past prime Judah, past prime Oscar (HOF), 2nd prime Gatti (HOF?), past prime JMM (P4P #4), Prime Castillo, past prime Cotto, past prime Shane (HOF) and past prime Genaro Hernandez.

I just don't see any comparison with quality of opposition. Even Ray Leonard, who had many less fights than Manny: Hagler (ATG/HOF), Hearns (undefeated HOF/ATG), Duran (ATG/HOF), Benitez (HOF/ATG). All of those guys, except (maybe) Hagler where in their primes. No comparison. Floyd is great and not every missed fight was Floyd's, but I can't give him credit for should have beens over guys who did. Sorry.