Floyd, Manny, Hop, Roy legacy

[denilson200]

Floyd: Undefeated, multi-weight champion who has reigned as P4P #1 for years. He has defeated solid competition in guys like Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo, Canelo Alvarez, Miguel Cotto, Oscar, and Ricky Hatton. His signature win, in my opinion, was his domination of #3 P4P (at the time of the fight) Chico Corrales. Floyd used angles, beautiful combinations and a debilitating jab to the body to completely outclass a dominant fighter who had been blowing out top competition for years. The knock against Floyd is that at times his style is less than exciting, many of the biggest names he fought were past their best (Oscar, Shane, Cotto...etc.) and that he missed some of his biggest/best opportunities (Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas, Casamayor...etc.), most notably the superfight with Manny.

You say Floyd never fought Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas or Casamayor.

But he fought Shane AFTER Shane was coming off arguably his biggest win were he destroyed Antonio Margarito.

Remember AT THAT TIME Margarito was seen as a monster because he previously beaten the previously unbeaten Cotto.

Mayweather fought and beat the BEST Mosely

Yes. Mayweather never fought Kostya Tszyu but Mayweather beat the guy that punched Tszyu into retirement (Ricky Hattion) who AT THE TIME when Hatton fought Mayweather, Hatton was undefeated and at the VERY TOP of his game.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Joel Casamayor but he has beaten the guys that have beaten Casamayor (Robert Guerrero, J.M.Marquez and Luis Castillo)

Yes. Mayweather never fought Acelino Freitas but Mayweather beat Diego Corrales and Corrales went on to beat Acelino Freitas.

How can you say Miguel Cotto was "past his prime" when he fought Mayweather in 2012 ? When a few months back Cotto destroyed the fighter who was renowed as the best middleweight in the world - Sergio Martinez ?

How can you say Oscar was past his "past his prime" when he was only 34 at the time and in my opinion had only lost once to Hopkins (I believe like many that he beat Trinidad and won both fights against Mosley)

Dude. All roads lead to Maywether. He is the greatest fighter in our era.

There are only two fighters in the world today who I think would stand a chance of beating Mayweather.

Guillermo Rigondeaux and Andre Ward.

And I don't think they would win, but they would have a chance.

Every other fighter would have two chances, slim and none........and slim left town.

Manny: 8 division titlist and multi-weight champ who energized the sport with his all offense style and has beaten arguably the toughest competition of the four mentioned. While Manny has suffered a few draws and losses, many argue that is due to his always seeking out the toughest challengers available. Hard to argue with a guy who started at flyweight and took on the toughest available competition up to jr. middleweight. Some of the names on Manny's outstanding resume are: Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Bradley, Hatton, Cotto, Ledwaba, Mosely, and Oscar, many of were much larger and stopped in fantastic fashion. Manny's signature win would have to be his first win against Barrera, who was coming off the Hamed win, revitalized and ranked #3 P4P at the time. Manny completely savaged him and stopped him in impressive fashion. The knock against Manny is that some of the names on his resume (Oscar, Shane, Margarito...etc.) were past their best, he lost and drew during his prime (JMM and Morales) and never was able to face his greatest rival Floyd Mayweather.

Manny beat Hatton AFTER Mayweather had beaten Hatton.
Manny beat Oscar AFTER Mayweather had beaten Oscar.
Manny got knocked out by Marquez AFTER Mayweather had beaten Marquez.

Manny was beaten by Bradley in the first fight (Yes, yes I thought that was a bad decision) but he hardly ran Bradley out of the ring second time around.

Manny has fought JMM 4 times. Ist time a draw, second time an SD for Manny, third time a very dodgy decision for Manny and in the fourth fight, Manny nearly got his head decapitated by JMM

Yet JMM barely wins a round aganist Mayweather.

He has a lost against Morales and two KO losses early in his career.

Look - I’m not saying Pac-Man is not a great fighter.

He is.

But you can’t sit there with a straight face and put Manny above Mayweather, that is insane and it will be shown how insane it is, should they face up next year when Floyd will not even lose a round to Manny

But I'm sure you will trot out the usual "Manny was past his prime" line.

To be honest until Floyd fights and beats Wladimir Klitschko with one arm tied behind his back will people give him credit.

My list is :

1) Floyd
2) Hop
3) Roy
4) Manny

[Beanflicker]

I just have no idea how anyone could justify not having Floyd #1. Floyd worked his way to becoming the highest grossing star boxing has ever seen, he's been fighting for 18 years undefeated (16 of those years as a champion and at a championship level) and at an age where historically most guys are retired or washed up, he's fighting and winning on the highest level.

At some point, and this point may be years or even decades down the road, boxing fans are going to have to acknowledge Floyd as one of the very top greatest fighters of all time, maybe even the #1.

There's only so much verbal gymnastics people can do to whitewash his accomplishments, sooner or later you have to give the devil his due. He's an asshole, a thug, and will never go down as the most exciting/action packed fighter in history, but his talent and genius in the ring eclipses pretty much every boxer who ever lived.

You just can't compare him to a guy who we've seen KTFO a several stages of his career, a guy we've seen outboxed and cleanly beaten. Pac is an ATG warrior, great action fighter, but legacy-wise he falls short of Mayweather in the end.

[mikeeod]

I just have no idea how anyone could justify not having Floyd #1. Floyd worked his way to becoming the highest grossing star boxing has ever seen, he's been fighting for 18 years undefeated (16 of those years as a champion and at a championship level) and at an age where historically most guys are retired or washed up, he's fighting and winning on the highest level.

At some point, and this point may be years or even decades down the road, boxing fans are going to have to acknowledge Floyd as one of the very top greatest fighters of all time, maybe even the #1.

There's only so much verbal gymnastics people can do to whitewash his accomplishments, sooner or later you have to give the devil his due. He's an asshole, a thug, and will never go down as the most exciting/action packed fighter in history, but his talent and genius in the ring eclipses pretty much every boxer who ever lived.

You just can't compare him to a guy who we've seen KTFO a several stages of his career, a guy we've seen outboxed and cleanly beaten. Pac is an ATG warrior, great action fighter, but legacy-wise he falls short of Mayweather in the end.

This is where the argument goes south. I give Floyd credit as a great fighter, even ATG. I acknowledge that he didn't duck anyone and that he faced good opposition, superior to someone like Roy Jones jr. I can even see where individuals would disagree with me and value Floyd's dominance over what I feel is clearly better quality of opposition for Hop and Manny. Where it gets ridiculous is when people try to act like it is such an unheard of or unrealistic debate. Where it gets ludicrous is when people go the ultimate of hysteria and fantasy land and say Floyd is greater and has accomplished more than guys like Robinson, Ali, Armstrong...etc. It just isn't worth debating with someone who is so biased and emotionally involved with a fighter that they can't keep the conversation semi-rational. No way will any knowledgeable, unbiased fan/historian EVER rank Floyd higher than those guys mentioned above. They beat numerous prime HOFers and have more knockouts than Floyd has fights.

[Beanflicker]

This is where the argument goes south. I give Floyd credit as a great fighter, even ATG. I acknowledge that he didn't duck anyone and that he faced good opposition, superior to someone like Roy Jones jr. I can even see where individuals would disagree with me and value Floyd's dominance over what I feel is clearly better quality of opposition for Hop and Manny. Where it gets ridiculous is when people try to act like it is such an unheard of or unrealistic debate. Where it gets ludicrous is when people go the ultimate of hysteria and fantasy land and say Floyd is greater and has accomplished more than guys like Robinson, Ali, Armstrong...etc. It just isn't worth debating with someone who is so biased and emotionally involved with a fighter that they can't keep the conversation semi-rational. No way will any knowledgeable, unbiased fan/historian EVER rank Floyd higher than those guys mentioned above. They beat numerous prime HOFers and have more knockouts than Floyd has fights.

I'm not saying it's an unrealistic debate between Floyd, Roy and Hopkins, but I don't see Manny on par with those guys. Floyd and Roy were absolutely untouchable in their primes, Hopkins was untouchable for most of his prime and even now at nearly 50, Pac has been KTFO in all stages of his career and outboxed by several guys - including a guy that Floyd Mayweather fought and outclassed so badly it was embarrassing.

I don't see how it's fair to penalize a guy for not fighting certain people when he made a legit effort to make the fight happen. People get on their soap box and talk about the old timers like Robinson, Armstrong, ect. You think they fought everyone they could have? You don't think they avoided people? Most people just don't know their history.

[La Cucaracha]

This is where the argument goes south. I give Floyd credit as a great fighter, even ATG. I acknowledge that he didn't duck anyone and that he faced good opposition, superior to someone like Roy Jones jr. I can even see where individuals would disagree with me and value Floyd's dominance over what I feel is clearly better quality of opposition for Hop and Manny. Where it gets ridiculous is when people try to act like it is such an unheard of or unrealistic debate. Where it gets ludicrous is when people go the ultimate of hysteria and fantasy land and say Floyd is greater and has accomplished more than guys like Robinson, Ali, Armstrong...etc. It just isn't worth debating with someone who is so biased and emotionally involved with a fighter that they can't keep the conversation semi-rational. No way will any knowledgeable, unbiased fan/historian EVER rank Floyd higher than those guys mentioned above. They beat numerous prime HOFers and have more knockouts than Floyd has fights.

I'm not saying it's an unrealistic debate between Floyd, Roy and Hopkins, but I don't see Manny on par with those guys. Floyd and Roy were absolutely untouchable in their primes, Hopkins was untouchable for most of his prime and even now at nearly 50, Pac has been KTFO in all stages of his career and outboxed by several guys - including a guy that Floyd Mayweather fought and outclassed so badly it was embarrassing.

I don't see how it's fair to penalize a guy for not fighting certain people when he made a legit effort to make the fight happen. People get on their soap box and talk about the old timers like Robinson, Armstrong, ect. You think they fought everyone they could have? You don't think they avoided people? Most people just don't know their history.

Castillo made Floyd seem pretty touchable I remember Floyd retiring when Cotto and Margarito were ranked #1 and #2, leaving them to fight each other, I remember Floyd walking away from a Wright fight, I could go on but Floyd hasn't done what the greats have done. For example many great welterweights have tested themselves at middleweight or above, guys who started out lighter than Floyd

[Beanflicker]

Castillo made Floyd seem pretty touchable I remember Floyd retiring when Cotto and Margarito were ranked #1 and #2, leaving them to fight each other, I remember Floyd walking away from a Wright fight, I could go on but Floyd hasn't done what the greats have done. For example many great welterweights have tested themselves at middleweight or above, guys who started out lighter than Floyd

Well tell me another great who didn't have a close fight or get beat. Even the other undefeated guy, Marciano, had some close calls.

How many great WW's who started off at 130lbs and went up and won titles at 160? You tell me, I don't know.

Floyd fights at 147, on fight day he weighs 147-150lbs. The guys he fights (Canelo, Maidana) come into the ring pushing 170. If he fought at MW, he'd be fighting guys who come into the ring at possibly 180 or above. Why should a 150lb guy have to fight a 180lb guy?

[mikeeod]

This is where the argument goes south. I give Floyd credit as a great fighter, even ATG. I acknowledge that he didn't duck anyone and that he faced good opposition, superior to someone like Roy Jones jr. I can even see where individuals would disagree with me and value Floyd's dominance over what I feel is clearly better quality of opposition for Hop and Manny. Where it gets ridiculous is when people try to act like it is such an unheard of or unrealistic debate. Where it gets ludicrous is when people go the ultimate of hysteria and fantasy land and say Floyd is greater and has accomplished more than guys like Robinson, Ali, Armstrong...etc. It just isn't worth debating with someone who is so biased and emotionally involved with a fighter that they can't keep the conversation semi-rational. No way will any knowledgeable, unbiased fan/historian EVER rank Floyd higher than those guys mentioned above. They beat numerous prime HOFers and have more knockouts than Floyd has fights.

I'm not saying it's an unrealistic debate between Floyd, Roy and Hopkins, but I don't see Manny on par with those guys. Floyd and Roy were absolutely untouchable in their primes, Hopkins was untouchable for most of his prime and even now at nearly 50, Pac has been KTFO in all stages of his career and outboxed by several guys - including a guy that Floyd Mayweather fought and outclassed so badly it was embarrassing.

I don't see how it's fair to penalize a guy for not fighting certain people when he made a legit effort to make the fight happen. People get on their soap box and talk about the old timers like Robinson, Armstrong, ect. You think they fought everyone they could have? You don't think they avoided people? Most people just don't know their history.

Had to address this response regarding old timers avoiding people. Those individuals you mentioned, I'm sure, missed one or two guys (maybe). Let's take an unbiased look at who Ray, Henry and Floyd fought and what stage of their careers the opponents were.
SRR: Prime Kid Gavilan (HOF), Prime Gene Fullmer (HOF), Prime Lamotta (HOF and up at Lamottas weight), Prime Carmen Basilio (HOF), Fritzie Zivic, Prime Marty Servo, past his prime Armstrong, Prime Sammy Angott, Prime Bobo Olson, Rocky Graziano, Charlie Fusari and Prime Joey Maxim (HOF) at Joey's weightclass.
Henry Armstrong: Prime Beau Jack (HOF), Prime SRR (HOF/GOAT), Sammy Angott, Tippy Larkin, Lew Jenkins (HOF), Fritzie Zivic, Prime Cerefino Garcia, Prime Lou Ambers and Prime Barney Ross (HOF, ATG).
Floyd: Prime Chico (undefeated, #3 P4P, HOF?), Prime Ricky Hatton (undefeated #6 P4P), Canelo Alvarez (undefeated), slightly past prime Judah, past prime Oscar (HOF), 2nd prime Gatti (HOF?), past prime JMM (P4P #4), Prime Castillo, past prime Cotto, past prime Shane (HOF) and past prime Genaro Hernandez.

I just don't see any comparison with quality of opposition. Even Ray Leonard, who had many less fights than Manny: Hagler (ATG/HOF), Hearns (undefeated HOF/ATG), Duran (ATG/HOF), Benitez (HOF/ATG). All of those guys, except (maybe) Hagler where in their primes. No comparison. Floyd is great and not every missed fight was Floyd's, but I can't give him credit for should have beens over guys who did. Sorry.

[Beanflicker]

I just don't see any comparison with quality of opposition. Even Ray Leonard, who had many less fights than Manny: Hagler (ATG/HOF), Hearns (undefeated HOF/ATG), Duran (ATG/HOF), Benitez (HOF/ATG). All of those guys, except (maybe) Hagler where in their primes. No comparison. Floyd is great and not every missed fight was Floyd's, but I can't give him credit for should have beens over guys who did. Sorry.

I'm not talking about giving him credit, I'm telling you not to dock him for them. Boxing is a lot more complicated than it was back in the good old days with rival promotional companies, networks, a million sanctioning bodies, ect.

Floyd wasn't always Money Mayweather. Something that people forget is that Floyd himself was one of the most avoided guys in the sport for a period because he was a virtuoso talent with no name value and presented one of the worst risk/reward ratios in boxing. People were not knocking down doors to fight Floyd like they have been for the last few years.

People dock Roy for a bunch of guys he never fought too, when in reality there is history and circumstance behind a lot of those missed fights, but people seem to like to just assume and say "ohh he ducked so and so because they never fought". Most of the time, it's more complicated.

[mikeeod]

I just don't see any comparison with quality of opposition. Even Ray Leonard, who had many less fights than Manny: Hagler (ATG/HOF), Hearns (undefeated HOF/ATG), Duran (ATG/HOF), Benitez (HOF/ATG). All of those guys, except (maybe) Hagler where in their primes. No comparison. Floyd is great and not every missed fight was Floyd's, but I can't give him credit for should have beens over guys who did. Sorry.

I'm not talking about giving him credit, I'm telling you not to dock him for them. Boxing is a lot more complicated than it was back in the good old days with rival promotional companies, networks, a million sanctioning bodies, ect.


Floyd wasn't always Money Mayweather. Something that people forget is that Floyd himself was one of the most avoided guys in the sport for a period because he was a virtuoso talent with no name value and presented one of the worst risk/reward ratios in boxing. People were not knocking down doors to fight Floyd like they have been for the last few years.

People dock Roy for a bunch of guys he never fought too, when in reality there is history and circumstance behind a lot of those missed fights, but people seem to like to just assume and say "ohh he ducked so and so because they never fought". Most of the time, it's more complicated.

I have to be honest, u just aren't making a rational argument, u r making an emotional one. U r saying that Floyd and Roy should be ranked higher because of how dominant they r and how great they looked. That is subjective, u r admitting that they fought inferior competition, but u r giving them credit since, in ur opinion, it wasn't their fault. What I'm saying is that while I agree with ur assessment of their abilities, I rank them lower based on the fact that they didn't make those fights and other guys did.

Ricardo Lopez, Rigo, Charley Burley, Sam Langford and many others were great fighters who, for circumstances out of their control, where not able to fight many top caliber opponents. As much asi admire their abilities and respect them, I can't rank them higher than Robinson, Armstrong, Ali...etc., because they didn't have the historical accomplishments. Floyd is great, an ATG. No doubt. This isn't a hate on Floyd session. Floyd will never be ranked higher than those guys because beating Chico and Hatton (his two biggest wins) does not compare with beating Hagler, Duran, Hearns and Benitez. It doesn't compare with beating Fullmer, Basilio, Lamotta...etc. I don't think we r ever goin to agree. U will always say Floyd is in the discussion based on ur "feeling" that way. I will say this also: it is easy to look great against not great competition. While Oscar and Tito had more losses than Floyd, they fought much tougher competition. I rank Floyd higher than both of those guys, but I so wonder what Floyd's record would be if he made the fights those guys did. As for missed fights not being his fault: 50 year old Hop is fighting an undefeated MONSTER who fights for rival HBO m promoter. Hop found a way to make the fight and will try and slay another dragon to add to his legacy. That is a great fighters mentality. Floyd fought Marcos Maidana twice and will most likely retire without fighting Manny. Despite his impressive skills and conditioning, at times I do question his mentality...

[mikeeod]

Floyd: Undefeated, multi-weight champion who has reigned as P4P #1 for years. He has defeated solid competition in guys like Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo, Canelo Alvarez, Miguel Cotto, Oscar, and Ricky Hatton. His signature win, in my opinion, was his domination of #3 P4P (at the time of the fight) Chico Corrales. Floyd used angles, beautiful combinations and a debilitating jab to the body to completely outclass a dominant fighter who had been blowing out top competition for years. The knock against Floyd is that at times his style is less than exciting, many of the biggest names he fought were past their best (Oscar, Shane, Cotto...etc.) and that he missed some of his biggest/best opportunities (Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas, Casamayor...etc.), most notably the superfight with Manny.

You say Floyd never fought Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas or Casamayor.

But he fought Shane AFTER Shane was coming off arguably his biggest win were he destroyed Antonio Margarito. Shane's win over Oscar was a much bigger win, it isn't even close or debatable. Margarito had been beaten by Paul Williams a few fights before his big win over Cotto, so it wasn't like the guy was unbeatable.

Remember AT THAT TIME Margarito was seen as a monster because he previously beaten the previously unbeaten Cotto.

Mayweather fought and beat the BEST Mosely No way. That just isn't a true statement at all. Mosely had been outclassed by Forrest and Winky FOUR TIMES and beaten by Cotto when he fought Floyd. In no way was he prime or the best version of his career. You are kidding yourself.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Kostya Tszyu but Mayweather beat the guy that punched Tszyu into retirement (Ricky Hattion) who AT THE TIME when Hatton fought Mayweather, Hatton was undefeated and at the VERY TOP of his game. I gave Floyd credit for the Hatton win, as I feel this was an impressive performance. That being said, I never give someone credit for beating a guy who beat another guy. Look at Ali, Norton, Foreman and you will see that styles make fights. I think Floyd would've won vs. Kostya, he loses credit in my ranking system though for not fighting him.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Joel Casamayor but he has beaten the guys that have beaten Casamayor (Robert Guerrero, J.M.Marquez and Luis Castillo) Joel was shot by the time he fought those fighters, and I feel that great fighters seek out and beat top competition, not let other guys beat them for him.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Acelino Freitas but Mayweather beat Diego Corrales and Corrales went on to beat Acelino Freitas.

How can you say Miguel Cotto was "past his prime" when he fought Mayweather in 2012 ? When a few months back Cotto destroyed the fighter who was renowed as the best middleweight in the world - Sergio Martinez ? I'm sorry, you seem like a good guy and seem passionate for the sport, but this is an assinine statement. Cotto looked good against a guy with no mobility who is done as a fighter. The first world class, durable guy Miguel fights will beat him. He was a shell of his prime self when he fought Floyd and everyone who is unbiased knows/admits this.

How can you say Oscar was past his "past his prime" when he was only 34 at the time and in my opinion had only lost once to Hopkins (I believe like many that he beat Trinidad and won both fights against Mosley) Hahahahah. Another comment that you have to admit is ridiculous. EVERYONE knows Oscar was done by the Floyd fight and NOWHERE near his prime. I don't give Floyd or Manny much credit for beating those versions of Oscar. There is no way you can say with a straight face that Oscar was near his prime for that fight.

Dude. All roads lead to Maywether. He is the greatest fighter in our era. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it. I laid out my reasons for ranking guys where I do. Try to keep it in perspective though, I'm not saying Floyd is a bum or coward...etc. I admit he is an ATG, I just feel that due to accomplishments Hop and Manny should be ranked higher. I can see how people would disagree though.

There are only two fighters in the world today who I think would stand a chance of beating Mayweather.

Guillermo Rigondeaux and Andre Ward.

And I don't think they would win, but they would have a chance.

Every other fighter would have two chances, slim and none........and slim left town.

Manny: 8 division titlist and multi-weight champ who energized the sport with his all offense style and has beaten arguably the toughest competition of the four mentioned. While Manny has suffered a few draws and losses, many argue that is due to his always seeking out the toughest challengers available. Hard to argue with a guy who started at flyweight and took on the toughest available competition up to jr. middleweight. Some of the names on Manny's outstanding resume are: Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Bradley, Hatton, Cotto, Ledwaba, Mosely, and Oscar, many of were much larger and stopped in fantastic fashion. Manny's signature win would have to be his first win against Barrera, who was coming off the Hamed win, revitalized and ranked #3 P4P at the time. Manny completely savaged him and stopped him in impressive fashion. The knock against Manny is that some of the names on his resume (Oscar, Shane, Margarito...etc.) were past their best, he lost and drew during his prime (JMM and Morales) and never was able to face his greatest rival Floyd Mayweather.

Manny beat Hatton AFTER Mayweather had beaten Hatton. Great knockout, and due to how it went down I'm confident Manny does that to Hatton any time they fought. Bad style clash for Ricky.
Manny beat Oscar AFTER Mayweather had beaten Oscar. Don't put much stock in this win.
Manny got knocked out by Marquez AFTER Mayweather had beaten Marquez. Styles make fights, JMM grew into the weightclass by the time of that 4th fight, and Manny was extremely aggressive and on the verge of a stoppage himself when he got caught. When you fight tough comp that happens to everyone. The only way to guarantee you remain undefeated is by fighting guys you know you can beat.

Manny was beaten by Bradley in the first fight (Yes, yes I thought that was a bad decision) but he hardly ran Bradley out of the ring second time around. He dominated both fights against a top ranked P4P #3 undefeated champion. Tough to fault a guy for that or because the judges sucked in the first fight.

Manny has fought JMM 4 times. Ist time a draw, second time an SD for Manny, third time a very dodgy decision for Manny and in the fourth fight, Manny nearly got his head decapitated by JMM Bad style match up. Also, Manny and JMM are smaller than Floyd, so I don't put as much stock as most in Floyd beating JMM. To me Floyd is too big for both/either of those guys.

Yet JMM barely wins a round aganist Mayweather.

He has a lost against Morales and two KO losses early in his career. Morales was a BEAST and is a HOFer. Easy. You fight enough tough guys you will lose a close decision here or there.

Look - I’m not saying Pac-Man is not a great fighter.

He is.

But you can’t sit there with a straight face and put Manny above Mayweather, that is insane and it will be shown how insane it is, should they face up next year when Floyd will not even lose a round to Manny

But I'm sure you will trot out the usual "Manny was past his prime" line. I will trot that line out now. Manny is past his prime. Do you disagree with that Manny is no where near the fighter he was in the past and he is well above his best weight. I think that due to the style match up Floyd would have always beat Manny, but also feel that they would have had great fights and Floyd woud've struggled. That being said, just because a fighter loses to another guy doesn't mean that he has to be ranked below that guy. Ray Robinson lost to the larger Joey Maxim and I don't place Joey above Ray. Joe C. Beat Roy Jones and I don't place Joe above Roy.

To be honest until Floyd fights and beats Wladimir Klitschko with one arm tied behind his back will people give him credit.

My list is :

1) Floyd
2) Hop
3) Roy
4) Manny

It's all subjective, so it is a respectable list. That being said, some insight into why you rank them like that would be interesting.

[denilson200]

Floyd: Undefeated, multi-weight champion who has reigned as P4P #1 for years. He has defeated solid competition in guys like Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo, Canelo Alvarez, Miguel Cotto, Oscar, and Ricky Hatton. His signature win, in my opinion, was his domination of #3 P4P (at the time of the fight) Chico Corrales. Floyd used angles, beautiful combinations and a debilitating jab to the body to completely outclass a dominant fighter who had been blowing out top competition for years. The knock against Floyd is that at times his style is less than exciting, many of the biggest names he fought were past their best (Oscar, Shane, Cotto...etc.) and that he missed some of his biggest/best opportunities (Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas, Casamayor...etc.), most notably the superfight with Manny.

You say Floyd never fought Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas or Casamayor.

But he fought Shane AFTER Shane was coming off arguably his biggest win were he destroyed Antonio Margarito. Shane's win over Oscar was a much bigger win, it isn't even close or debatable. Margarito had been beaten by Paul Williams a few fights before his big win over Cotto, so it wasn't like the guy was unbeatable.

Remember AT THAT TIME Margarito was seen as a monster because he previously beaten the previously unbeaten Cotto.

Mayweather fought and beat the BEST Mosely No way. That just isn't a true statement at all. Mosely had been outclassed by Forrest and Winky FOUR TIMES and beaten by Cotto when he fought Floyd. In no way was he prime or the best version of his career. You are kidding yourself.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Kostya Tszyu but Mayweather beat the guy that punched Tszyu into retirement (Ricky Hattion) who AT THE TIME when Hatton fought Mayweather, Hatton was undefeated and at the VERY TOP of his game. I gave Floyd credit for the Hatton win, as I feel this was an impressive performance. That being said, I never give someone credit for beating a guy who beat another guy. Look at Ali, Norton, Foreman and you will see that styles make fights. I think Floyd would've won vs. Kostya, he loses credit in my ranking system though for not fighting him.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Joel Casamayor but he has beaten the guys that have beaten Casamayor (Robert Guerrero, J.M.Marquez and Luis Castillo) Joel was shot by the time he fought those fighters, and I feel that great fighters seek out and beat top competition, not let other guys beat them for him.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Acelino Freitas but Mayweather beat Diego Corrales and Corrales went on to beat Acelino Freitas.

How can you say Miguel Cotto was "past his prime" when he fought Mayweather in 2012 ? When a few months back Cotto destroyed the fighter who was renowed as the best middleweight in the world - Sergio Martinez ? I'm sorry, you seem like a good guy and seem passionate for the sport, but this is an assinine statement. Cotto looked good against a guy with no mobility who is done as a fighter. The first world class, durable guy Miguel fights will beat him. He was a shell of his prime self when he fought Floyd and everyone who is unbiased knows/admits this.

How can you say Oscar was past his "past his prime" when he was only 34 at the time and in my opinion had only lost once to Hopkins (I believe like many that he beat Trinidad and won both fights against Mosley) Hahahahah. Another comment that you have to admit is ridiculous. EVERYONE knows Oscar was done by the Floyd fight and NOWHERE near his prime. I don't give Floyd or Manny much credit for beating those versions of Oscar. There is no way you can say with a straight face that Oscar was near his prime for that fight.

Dude. All roads lead to Maywether. He is the greatest fighter in our era. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it. I laid out my reasons for ranking guys where I do. Try to keep it in perspective though, I'm not saying Floyd is a bum or coward...etc. I admit he is an ATG, I just feel that due to accomplishments Hop and Manny should be ranked higher. I can see how people would disagree though.

There are only two fighters in the world today who I think would stand a chance of beating Mayweather.

Guillermo Rigondeaux and Andre Ward.

And I don't think they would win, but they would have a chance.

Every other fighter would have two chances, slim and none........and slim left town.

Manny: 8 division titlist and multi-weight champ who energized the sport with his all offense style and has beaten arguably the toughest competition of the four mentioned. While Manny has suffered a few draws and losses, many argue that is due to his always seeking out the toughest challengers available. Hard to argue with a guy who started at flyweight and took on the toughest available competition up to jr. middleweight. Some of the names on Manny's outstanding resume are: Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Bradley, Hatton, Cotto, Ledwaba, Mosely, and Oscar, many of were much larger and stopped in fantastic fashion. Manny's signature win would have to be his first win against Barrera, who was coming off the Hamed win, revitalized and ranked #3 P4P at the time. Manny completely savaged him and stopped him in impressive fashion. The knock against Manny is that some of the names on his resume (Oscar, Shane, Margarito...etc.) were past their best, he lost and drew during his prime (JMM and Morales) and never was able to face his greatest rival Floyd Mayweather.

Manny beat Hatton AFTER Mayweather had beaten Hatton. Great knockout, and due to how it went down I'm confident Manny does that to Hatton any time they fought. Bad style clash for Ricky.
Manny beat Oscar AFTER Mayweather had beaten Oscar. Don't put much stock in this win.
Manny got knocked out by Marquez AFTER Mayweather had beaten Marquez. Styles make fights, JMM grew into the weightclass by the time of that 4th fight, and Manny was extremely aggressive and on the verge of a stoppage himself when he got caught. When you fight tough comp that happens to everyone. The only way to guarantee you remain undefeated is by fighting guys you know you can beat.

Manny was beaten by Bradley in the first fight (Yes, yes I thought that was a bad decision) but he hardly ran Bradley out of the ring second time around. He dominated both fights against a top ranked P4P #3 undefeated champion. Tough to fault a guy for that or because the judges sucked in the first fight.

Manny has fought JMM 4 times. Ist time a draw, second time an SD for Manny, third time a very dodgy decision for Manny and in the fourth fight, Manny nearly got his head decapitated by JMM Bad style match up. Also, Manny and JMM are smaller than Floyd, so I don't put as much stock as most in Floyd beating JMM. To me Floyd is too big for both/either of those guys.

Yet JMM barely wins a round aganist Mayweather.

He has a lost against Morales and two KO losses early in his career. Morales was a BEAST and is a HOFer. Easy. You fight enough tough guys you will lose a close decision here or there.

Look - I’m not saying Pac-Man is not a great fighter.

He is.

But you can’t sit there with a straight face and put Manny above Mayweather, that is insane and it will be shown how insane it is, should they face up next year when Floyd will not even lose a round to Manny

But I'm sure you will trot out the usual "Manny was past his prime" line. I will trot that line out now. Manny is past his prime. Do you disagree with that Manny is no where near the fighter he was in the past and he is well above his best weight. I think that due to the style match up Floyd would have always beat Manny, but also feel that they would have had great fights and Floyd woud've struggled. That being said, just because a fighter loses to another guy doesn't mean that he has to be ranked below that guy. Ray Robinson lost to the larger Joey Maxim and I don't place Joey above Ray. Joe C. Beat Roy Jones and I don't place Joe above Roy.

To be honest until Floyd fights and beats Wladimir Klitschko with one arm tied behind his back will people give him credit.

My list is :

1) Floyd
2) Hop
3) Roy
4) Manny

It's all subjective, so it is a respectable list. That being said, some insight into why you rank them like that would be interesting.

I will start with Roy. He has had too many terrible defeats that leave a serious stain on his career.

With Roy, people put too much weight on his highs and not enough his lows. So sure, for every great performance, like against Toney and Griffin 2, this there were poor defeats (At the back end of his career) to Danny Green (KO 1) and Lebedev (KO 10)

Not to mention his KO defeats to good fighters but hardly hall of famers like Glen Johnson and Tarver.

It’s not just how you start the race, it's how you finish it.

You may get a horse that shows tremendous early speed, but does have the stamina to see the race out and gets caught. When people judge Roy they focus too much on his early career, and the fact that when he was good, he was so far front of everyone, but like the horse, he has faded badly

Whereas Hopkins is the opposite, he did not have lightening early speed, but tremendous stamina, and using the Horse example again, he has caught Jones up and overtook him.

He beat Jones in a rematch and no-one has ever destroyed him and at the age 50 he's fighting another killing machine in Kovalev

I have already gave my verdict on Manny and Floyd above. Floyd ranks number and NO I'm not blinded by his unbeaten records. The simple fact he has been the dominant boxer ion the planet for past 10 years.

[Master]

In terms of legacy this is hard but this is my order.

Roy was simply the best and beat Hopkins easily. What he is doing now does not harm his legacy everyone knows he is past his best.
Floyd for multiple weight champion
Hopkins for his longevity
Manny when he went through the divisions and smashed everyone – short sweet and spectacular.

Side note: Floyd beat Hatton at welterweight. This was a weight that Ricky was not world class and struggled at, his best weight was light welterweight and Manny smashed him.

[Beanflicker]

Side note: Floyd beat Hatton at welterweight. This was a weight that Ricky was not world class and struggled at, his best weight was light welterweight and Manny smashed him.

I've seen this many times and I've asked everyone who mentioned it the same thing - I've probably asked you this numerous times before.

Can you explain to me how allowing Ricky to weight in at 147 had any impact at all on his actual performance, keeping in mind a) Ricky was the bigger man, b) Ricky was the guy cutting the most weight (I don't think Floyd even cuts weight), c) Ricky was notorious for blowing up between fights and killing himself to get down to 140.

It's been nearly 7 years and I can't figure it out. When you take everything into consideration, it seems like the only one who could possibly benefit from having to weigh in at 147 as opposed to 140 was Ricky Hatton.

[Rantcatrat]

Side note: Floyd beat Hatton at welterweight. This was a weight that Ricky was not world class and struggled at, his best weight was light welterweight and Manny smashed him.

I've seen this many times and I've asked everyone who mentioned it the same thing - I've probably asked you this numerous times before.

Can you explain to me how allowing Ricky to weight in at 147 had any impact at all on his actual performance, keeping in mind a) Ricky was the bigger man, b) Ricky was the guy cutting the most weight (I don't think Floyd even cuts weight), c) Ricky was notorious for blowing up between fights and killing himself to get down to 140.

It's been nearly 7 years and I can't figure it out. When you take everything into consideration, it seems like the only one who could possibly benefit from having to weigh in at 147 as opposed to 140 was Ricky Hatton.

I'll try to explain. Allowing Ricky to weigh in at 147 didn't necessarily hurt Ricky's performance, as you mentioned he didn't have to struggle as much to make weight. However, Ricky's style depended in part on his ability to out-muscle his competition. He couldn't do that as effectively at 147, as he could at 140. He was only 5'6.

Before his fight against Floyd, he fought Collazo at 147, who I thought he struggled a lot with. In fact, Collazo hurt him in the last few rounds and Ricky was forced to hold as a result. If we're honest, what Did Ricky Hatton really do at 147? What was his best win at that weight class? Collazo? Maybe it's just me, which is fine, but Hatton looked like a tough Staffordshire Terrier at 140, but at 147, he looked of average, if not small size.

For example, I think Sergio Martinez's win over Kelly Pavlik at 160 is better than Hopkins' win over him at 170 because Pavlik just wasn't as effective above 160.

[Rantcatrat]

I think a major consideration should be how many "greats" they faced, were they in their "prime," and how many they defeated.