I also felt when Roy's hands were down Joe certainly wasn't landing anything either, he only landed weak body punches, albeit a lot of them, but he wasn't impressive either, maybe his speed was to a degree, but I also saw that he couldn't deal with Roy's speed when Roy punched, not that he couldn't get out of the way, but that he was out of position when he got out of the way, there almost no effective countering on either's guy's part, but Roy hasn't been countering effectively against lesser opponents so I didn't expect it from him, but you could see that Roy was just missing his counters, and he was covering up too much and not getting off. I think even the Roy that fought Tarver the first time gives Joe a very, very tough fight.