Jan Zaveck vs. Andre Berto fight thread - on HBO tonight

[Kev]

I think people dislike Berto because he seems to be just another HBO hype-job. He seems like a nice, honest guy though. I don't mind him at all, especially compared with the other wife-beating lowlifes boxing seems to attract.

I'm not a huge fan of his, was rooting for Ortiz against him but he's clearly an exciting fighter. I'm not sure he's really just a hype job. 147 is one of the glamour divisions of boxing and clearly Floyd aside (and now Ortiz) he's the most exciting and explosive American fighter in that weight class.

Just watchin 24/7 now. Floyd's fiance is fineeeeeeeeee.

[LukeH]

Fuck it Jan was fireing from the inside well with short hooks I was hoping to see Berto get wobbled when he went square. Hard hitting fight.

Why does everyone hate on Berto so much? Does he talk himself up or something?

I think it's hate bought on by the networks and promoters pushing him as somthing he's not.

They're to eagre to annoint people as the next superstar. It's no fault of the fighter really... when your touted as being as Mayweather or Pac's level after 2 so-so performances including a loss and tonight I think it just pisses people off and the fighter gets the backlash.

But yea... it's not really his fault hes been toutted like that and pushed to where he is right now.

[LukeH]

Some idiot on Primetime just said Berto's in the Pacman, Mayweather tier.

I dont think anybody thinks Berto is as good as Manny or Floyd but clearly he's amongst that elite group of fighters good enough to be considered an opponent for them.

He's absolutely one of the best fighters from 140-154 and therefore right in the mix for a fight with either,

It's just hating to suggest otherwise.

I just said exactly what they said... he's on the level of those two.... which he isn't.

I didn't say he shouldn't be in the mix to fight either of them, I didn't really have a problem with him having a title shot tonight. Although it does IMO at least show the gulf in class between Floyd and Pac, and the rest of the division.

[Spicoli]

I dont know him personally but he's a terribly flawd fighter who has not improved and is afforded grounds that can be walked by better more solid guys. I have zero doubt that he gets badly rattled if he is put in with the top tier and you can see that as plain as day. This night was all about getting him a strap so he can be marketed into another "mega fight" on HBO. U want exciting go pick some joe schmo off an obscure undercard who explodes even more and also swings for the fences. Berto is a guarded investment with rooted connections, but I'm sure he's a wonderful dinner guest as well.

[Kev]

Some idiot on Primetime just said Berto's in the Pacman, Mayweather tier.

I dont think anybody thinks Berto is as good as Manny or Floyd but clearly he's amongst that elite group of fighters good enough to be considered an opponent for them.

He's absolutely one of the best fighters from 140-154 and therefore right in the mix for a fight with either,

It's just hating to suggest otherwise.

I just said exactly what they said... he's on the level of those two.... which he isn't.

I didn't say he shouldn't be in the mix to fight either of them, I didn't really have a problem with him having a title shot tonight. Although it does IMO at least show the gulf in class between Floyd and Pac, and the rest of the division.

I agree I give him virtually no chance against Floyd, and a punchers chance early against Manny at best.

There was nothing wrong with him getting a title shot right away though, imo it was necessary for boxing to maintain credibility, He defended his title 5 times and is clearly the best fighter in the weight class after Manny and Ortiz (and Floyd when he returns).

To have made him wait and earn a shot at Zavek's title behind some other lesser guy would have been farcical. I think he proved that point in his victory tonight.

[Kev]

I dont know him personally but he's a terribly flawd fighter who has not improved and is afforded grounds that can be walked by better more solid guys. I have zero doubt that he gets badly rattled if he is put in with the top tier and you can see that as plain as day. This night was all about getting him a strap so he can be marketed into another "mega fight" on HBO. U want exciting go pick some joe schmo off an obscure undercard who explodes even more and also swings for the fences. Berto is a guarded investment with rooted connections, but I'm sure he's a wonderful dinner guest as well.

What's the difference between him and Katsidis in that case though? Katsidis gets hit at will and has been stpped a bunch of times now yet HBO always call on him because he's exciting, and he's not even American.

There's really no conspiracy as to why Berto is on HBO. He's simply been more exciting, faster, explosive and impressively built physically than any other American fighter in and around that weight class. It would be a bizarre ommission if he hadn't been a HBO regular imo.

[LukeH]

Some idiot on Primetime just said Berto's in the Pacman, Mayweather tier.

I dont think anybody thinks Berto is as good as Manny or Floyd but clearly he's amongst that elite group of fighters good enough to be considered an opponent for them.

He's absolutely one of the best fighters from 140-154 and therefore right in the mix for a fight with either,

It's just hating to suggest otherwise.

I just said exactly what they said... he's on the level of those two.... which he isn't.

I didn't say he shouldn't be in the mix to fight either of them, I didn't really have a problem with him having a title shot tonight. Although it does IMO at least show the gulf in class between Floyd and Pac, and the rest of the division.

I agree I give him virtually no chance against Floyd, and a punchers chance early against Manny at best.

There was nothing wrong with him getting a title shot right away though, imo it was necessary for boxing to maintain credibility, He defended his title 5 times and is clearly the best fighter in the weight class after Manny and Ortiz (and Floyd when he returns).

To have made him wait and earn a shot at Zavek's title behind some other lesser guy would have been farcical. I think he proved that point in his victory tonight.

I understand it... Somtimes theres an automatic rematch in the contract... somtimes there isn't but they will still be granted one,I dont see the difference between that and a title shot at a different title tbh, especially as there isn't as many name fighters as there were a few years ago. Even though he's ended up losing Zaveck is probably happier he took this fight than say.. well anyone else who was available.

[Spicoli]

I dont know him personally but he's a terribly flawd fighter who has not improved and is afforded grounds that can be walked by better more solid guys. I have zero doubt that he gets badly rattled if he is put in with the top tier and you can see that as plain as day. This night was all about getting him a strap so he can be marketed into another "mega fight" on HBO. U want exciting go pick some joe schmo off an obscure undercard who explodes even more and also swings for the fences. Berto is a guarded investment with rooted connections, but I'm sure he's a wonderful dinner guest as well.

What's the difference between him and Katsidis in that case though? Katsidis gets hit at will and has been stpped a bunch of times now yet HBO always call on him because he's exciting, and he's not even American.

There's really no conspiracy as to why Berto is on HBO. He's simply been more exciting, faster, explosive and impressively built physically than any other American fighter in and around that weight class. It would be a bizarre ommission if he hadn't been a HBO regular imo.

When Kats is mentioned in the same sentence as the very best in his division people call bullshit on it. He serves to frankly make the more primary guy shine and is not sold as a legit two time next coming of the all mighty super star. For all his heart those 15 minutes expired quick on...and really Bertos natural athleticism is leagues beyond but he'll not realize it because he was rushed to market and made bigger than he was at the time.

I honestly don't think Berto is all that exciting but more of just another glossy pumped up car on the race track. Its a matter of time. His hands are NOT Meldrick taylor esqu and he does not have the legs, stamina or stubborn streak to last in all of these face first brawls we are suddenly prepared to throw him into. Memo to HBO fluffers and Max....do they remember what became of Taylor after his "exciting match" with Chavez? Whens the last time you heard Kats choke up simply talking about Haymon and HBO promotion after a fight

[Hulk]

BULLSHIT STOPPAGE !

Fucking Zaveck's corner stopped it way too soon. He had a bad cut, but soooo many fighters have continued on with much much worse cuts and swelling. Such as Carmen Basilio, Fernando Vargas, Ebo Elder, Erik Morales, etc.

It was a very exciting fight and quite competitive. Damn shame it ended that way.

[#1FightFan]

BULLSHIT STOPPAGE !

Fucking Zaveck's corner stopped it way too soon. He had a bad cut, but soooo many fighters have continued on with much much worse cuts and swelling. Such as Carmen Basilio, Fernando Vargas, Ebo Elder, Erik Morales, etc.

It was a very exciting fight and quite competitive. Damn shame it ended that way.

yup!!! i hate that shit!!!
I believe Zaveck was starting to come on strong, and woulda knocked berto down at least once!! he rattled berto a few good times.

[Hulk]

BULLSHIT STOPPAGE !

Fucking Zaveck's corner stopped it way too soon. He had a bad cut, but soooo many fighters have continued on with much much worse cuts and swelling. Such as Carmen Basilio, Fernando Vargas, Ebo Elder, Erik Morales, etc.

It was a very exciting fight and quite competitive. Damn shame it ended that way.

yup!!! i hate that shit!!!
I believe Zaveck was starting to come on strong, and woulda knocked berto down at least once!! he rattled berto a few good times.

I agree. It was infuriating and always is when a good fight ends that way.

Zaveck was down a bit on the cards, but he had the better defense, better inside game and was landing the harder punches in there.

I was certain he was going to walk Berto into a nice overhand right or left hook eventually.

Damn shame his corner punked out on him.

[ICB]

BULLSHIT STOPPAGE !

Fucking Zaveck's corner stopped it way too soon. He had a bad cut, but soooo many fighters have continued on with much much worse cuts and swelling. Such as Carmen Basilio, Fernando Vargas, Ebo Elder, Erik Morales, etc.

It was a very exciting fight and quite competitive. Damn shame it ended that way.

Wasn't his eye completely closed ?

[Andre]

BULLSHIT STOPPAGE !

Fucking Zaveck's corner stopped it way too soon. He had a bad cut, but soooo many fighters have continued on with much much worse cuts and swelling. Such as Carmen Basilio, Fernando Vargas, Ebo Elder, Erik Morales, etc.

It was a very exciting fight and quite competitive. Damn shame it ended that way.

Wasn't his eye completely closed ?

Yep and the other on its way, blood in one too.

[Kev]

I dont know him personally but he's a terribly flawd fighter who has not improved and is afforded grounds that can be walked by better more solid guys. I have zero doubt that he gets badly rattled if he is put in with the top tier and you can see that as plain as day. This night was all about getting him a strap so he can be marketed into another "mega fight" on HBO. U want exciting go pick some joe schmo off an obscure undercard who explodes even more and also swings for the fences. Berto is a guarded investment with rooted connections, but I'm sure he's a wonderful dinner guest as well.

What's the difference between him and Katsidis in that case though? Katsidis gets hit at will and has been stpped a bunch of times now yet HBO always call on him because he's exciting, and he's not even American.

There's really no conspiracy as to why Berto is on HBO. He's simply been more exciting, faster, explosive and impressively built physically than any other American fighter in and around that weight class. It would be a bizarre ommission if he hadn't been a HBO regular imo.

When Kats is mentioned in the same sentence as the very best in his division people call bullshit on it. He serves to frankly make the more primary guy shine and is not sold as a legit two time next coming of the all mighty super star. For all his heart those 15 minutes expired quick on...and really Bertos natural athleticism is leagues beyond but he'll not realize it because he was rushed to market and made bigger than he was at the time.

I honestly don't think Berto is all that exciting but more of just another glossy pumped up car on the race track. Its a matter of time. His hands are NOT Meldrick taylor esqu and he does not have the legs, stamina or stubborn streak to last in all of these face first brawls we are suddenly prepared to throw him into. Memo to HBO fluffers and Max....do they remember what became of Taylor after his "exciting match" with Chavez? Whens the last time you heard Kats choke up simply talking about Haymon and HBO promotion after a fight

I've never heard anyohne annoint Berto as the second coming either. To my knowledge he has never been featured in The Ring p4p top 10 so I don't know why you regard him as overatted? He is regarded as one of the very best 147 pound fighters in the world, and one of the most exciting.

I don't disagree with that at all. Floyd and Manny are not going to be around for much longer and then Berto is pretty much the best out there. He still has a bright future, despite clearly not being as good as Floyd, Manny, Oscar, Hopkins etc.

But then, few fighters are.

[Hulk]

BULLSHIT STOPPAGE !

Fucking Zaveck's corner stopped it way too soon. He had a bad cut, but soooo many fighters have continued on with much much worse cuts and swelling. Such as Carmen Basilio, Fernando Vargas, Ebo Elder, Erik Morales, etc.

It was a very exciting fight and quite competitive. Damn shame it ended that way.

Wasn't his eye completely closed ?

Yep and the other on its way, blood in one too.

It wasn't THAT bad. Lets be real here.