Who is 'Greater' on the all-time list SRL or RJJ?

[Mars_ax]

Bro ICB is just saying what everyone else is thinking. You don't have to like the guy & most of us have said Leonard is higher. But Jones was brilliant at his best! You say you never saw any defining fights but others have mentioned his wins of Toney, HOF McCallum, HOF bound Hopkins, Tarver when Jones was already on the slide. You don't consider those defining? I agree that some of his opposition wasn't stella but you mention Tarver who had already his ass handed to him by Harding who Jones owned! Give credit where credit is due.

You, ICB, el al, are welcome to your opinions, and however "ridiculous" they may seem to you, I have mine. I can think of at least 100 Pugs i'd put ahead of RJJ on my all-time list, being "hateful and biased", have fuck all to do with it.

That's cool cuz, but your the one calling ICB names for having his?!

Question: Have you actually seen Jones/ Toney? If not you should watch it. Toney was considered one of the best in the sport at that time, I'm not sure what you think of Toney but even today he is commended for still having some of the best technical abilities. Jones owned him! You can have Jones anywhere you like on your list but the fact is Jones was an amazing talent in his prime!

Not for his opinion.

Perhaps Jones was "amazing" until he got figured out.

[Galaxy]

Bro ICB is just saying what everyone else is thinking. You don't have to like the guy & most of us have said Leonard is higher. But Jones was brilliant at his best! You say you never saw any defining fights but others have mentioned his wins of Toney, HOF McCallum, HOF bound Hopkins, Tarver when Jones was already on the slide. You don't consider those defining? I agree that some of his opposition wasn't stella but you mention Tarver who had already his ass handed to him by Harding who Jones owned! Give credit where credit is due.

You, ICB, el al, are welcome to your opinions, and however "ridiculous" they may seem to you, I have mine. I can think of at least 100 Pugs i'd put ahead of RJJ on my all-time list, being "hateful and biased", have fuck all to do with it.

That's cool cuz, but your the one calling ICB names for having his?!

Question: Have you actually seen Jones/ Toney? If not you should watch it. Toney was considered one of the best in the sport at that time, I'm not sure what you think of Toney but even today he is commended for still having some of the best technical abilities. Jones owned him! You can have Jones anywhere you like on your list but the fact is Jones was an amazing talent in his prime!

Not for his opinion.

Perhaps Jones was "amazing" until he got figured out.

You don't think age caught up with him? As it does with everyone

[Mars_ax]

Bro ICB is just saying what everyone else is thinking. You don't have to like the guy & most of us have said Leonard is higher. But Jones was brilliant at his best! You say you never saw any defining fights but others have mentioned his wins of Toney, HOF McCallum, HOF bound Hopkins, Tarver when Jones was already on the slide. You don't consider those defining? I agree that some of his opposition wasn't stella but you mention Tarver who had already his ass handed to him by Harding who Jones owned! Give credit where credit is due.

You, ICB, el al, are welcome to your opinions, and however "ridiculous" they may seem to you, I have mine. I can think of at least 100 Pugs i'd put ahead of RJJ on my all-time list, being "hateful and biased", have fuck all to do with it.

That's cool cuz, but your the one calling ICB names for having his?!

Question: Have you actually seen Jones/ Toney? If not you should watch it. Toney was considered one of the best in the sport at that time, I'm not sure what you think of Toney but even today he is commended for still having some of the best technical abilities. Jones owned him! You can have Jones anywhere you like on your list but the fact is Jones was an amazing talent in his prime!

Not for his opinion.

Perhaps Jones was "amazing" until he got figured out.

You don't think age caught up with him? As it does with everyone

Jones was just 34 when he fought Tarver the 1st time, not exactly ancient eh? And he's still fighting 8 years later at age 42. It could just be that he didn't train as hard as he used to, who knows.

Prior to the 2nd Tarver fight, because of unorthodox style, solid defense, and the fact that he stayed on offense most of time, it was very hard to get a clean flush shot in on RJJ. Jones Jr. achilles heel turned out to be his china chin, Tarver was just the first to expose it.

[Galaxy]

Bro ICB is just saying what everyone else is thinking. You don't have to like the guy & most of us have said Leonard is higher. But Jones was brilliant at his best! You say you never saw any defining fights but others have mentioned his wins of Toney, HOF McCallum, HOF bound Hopkins, Tarver when Jones was already on the slide. You don't consider those defining? I agree that some of his opposition wasn't stella but you mention Tarver who had already his ass handed to him by Harding who Jones owned! Give credit where credit is due.

You, ICB, el al, are welcome to your opinions, and however "ridiculous" they may seem to you, I have mine. I can think of at least 100 Pugs i'd put ahead of RJJ on my all-time list, being "hateful and biased", have fuck all to do with it.

That's cool cuz, but your the one calling ICB names for having his?!

Question: Have you actually seen Jones/ Toney? If not you should watch it. Toney was considered one of the best in the sport at that time, I'm not sure what you think of Toney but even today he is commended for still having some of the best technical abilities. Jones owned him! You can have Jones anywhere you like on your list but the fact is Jones was an amazing talent in his prime!

Not for his opinion.

Perhaps Jones was "amazing" until he got figured out.

You don't think age caught up with him? As it does with everyone

Jones was just 34 when he fought Tarver the 1st time, not exactly ancient eh? And he's still fighting 8 years later at age 42. It could just be that he didn't train as hard as he used to, who knows.

Prior to the 2nd Tarver fight, because of unorthodox style, solid defense, and the fact that he stayed on offense most of time, it was very hard to get a clean flush shot in on RJJ. Jones Jr. achilles heel turned out to be his china chin, Tarver was just the first to expose it.

Just think how good Jones must have been then that no one knew he had no chin for over a decade spanning from 154 to heavy.

[Mars_ax]

[QUOTE=Galaxy;1020840][QUOTE=Mars_ax;1020837]

Question: Have you actually seen Jones/ Toney? If not you should watch it. Toney was considered one of the best in the sport at that time, I'm not sure what you think of Toney but even today he is commended for still having some of the best technical abilities. Jones owned him! You can have Jones anywhere you like on your list but the fact is Jones was an amazing talent in his prime!

Not for his opinion.

Perhaps Jones was "amazing" until he got figured out.

You don't think age caught up with him? As it does with everyone

Jones was just 34 when he fought Tarver the 1st time, not exactly ancient eh? And he's still fighting 8 years later at age 42. It could just be that he didn't train as hard as he used to, who knows.

Prior to the 2nd Tarver fight, because of unorthodox style, solid defense, and the fact that he stayed on offense most of time, it was very hard to get a clean flush shot in on RJJ. Jones Jr. achilles heel turned out to be his china chin, Tarver was just the first to expose it.

Just think how good Jones must have been then that no one knew he had no chin for over a decade spanning from 154 to heavy.

I've never said he wasn't good, just not the "god" all you RJJ fanboys make him out to be.

[Galaxy]

[QUOTE=Mars_ax;1020846][QUOTE=Galaxy;1020840]

Question: Have you actually seen Jones/ Toney? If not you should watch it. Toney was considered one of the best in the sport at that time, I'm not sure what you think of Toney but even today he is commended for still having some of the best technical abilities. Jones owned him! You can have Jones anywhere you like on your list but the fact is Jones was an amazing talent in his prime!

Not for his opinion.

Perhaps Jones was "amazing" until he got figured out.

You don't think age caught up with him? As it does with everyone

Jones was just 34 when he fought Tarver the 1st time, not exactly ancient eh? And he's still fighting 8 years later at age 42. It could just be that he didn't train as hard as he used to, who knows.

Prior to the 2nd Tarver fight, because of unorthodox style, solid defense, and the fact that he stayed on offense most of time, it was very hard to get a clean flush shot in on RJJ. Jones Jr. achilles heel turned out to be his china chin, Tarver was just the first to expose it.

Just think how good Jones must have been then that no one knew he had no chin for over a decade spanning from 154 to heavy.

I've never said he wasn't good, just not the "god" all you RJJ fanboys make him out to be.

I'm no Jones fanboy bro, I was one of his biggest critics while he was feasting on so called #1 contenders at 175. But I recognize the skills the guy had, the work he done & like ICB said had he retired he would have been very high regarded in ATG terms. So his legacy has been tarnished due to his continuing & losing but it doesn't detract from the fact that at his best Jones was great & easily a top 100 ATG

I'd be interested in seeing your top 100 list too if you could find the time

[Phillips]

Calzaghe would have smashed these two to peices in his prime in the 90s and early 2000s x x x x x

[Galaxy]

Calzaghe would have smashed these two to peices in his prime in the 90s and early 2000s x x x x x

Thanks for the laugh bro

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

People, can we not just assume that they're about the same then no?

Roy was probably a more physically gifted guy but Ray was absolutely rock solid fundamentally.

For me their resume's are about the same. I'd have to dislike one of em to actually split them apart.

[Spicoli]

I also give the edge to Leonard in a department Jones lacks and needs to learn. Willingness to retire, mutiple times.