Shogun vs Hendo

[mattboxingfan]

Im having a bet with my gaffa on this weekends fights, we have picked the following fights to bet on:

Shogun v Hendo - i've picked Shogun.

Cung Le v Silva - I wanted Cung Le, but conceeded it and now wanting Silva

Faber v Bowles - Faber my pick, he needs this to get back into contention

Kampmann v Story - gone for Kampmann, 50/50 fight, Kampmann needs to get back on to winning ways

Kingsbury v Bonner - Going for Kingsbury on this one

Bader v Brilz - managed to get Bader in this one


Some other good match up's on the card, looking forward to Miguel Torres matchup, and Matt Brown fight.

Almost right, just Hendo and Story to make it perfect.

[Mattyhitman]

Im having a bet with my gaffa on this weekends fights, we have picked the following fights to bet on:

Shogun v Hendo - i've picked Shogun.

Cung Le v Silva - I wanted Cung Le, but conceeded it and now wanting Silva

Faber v Bowles - Faber my pick, he needs this to get back into contention

Kampmann v Story - gone for Kampmann, 50/50 fight, Kampmann needs to get back on to winning ways

Kingsbury v Bonner - Going for Kingsbury on this one

Bader v Brilz - managed to get Bader in this one


Some other good match up's on the card, looking forward to Miguel Torres matchup, and Matt Brown fight.

Almost right, just Hendo and Story to make it perfect.

Story v Kampmann was a 50/50 for me so not bothered about that pick.

Shogun tho, I just feel he might have to much for Hendo. It really depends who lands the bomb first, Shogun has real power in those hands, not as much as Hendo, but still, enough to do damage if he lands first!

Should be good and looking forward to it

[Oggie]

Mental fight!

[Kev]

Epic fight, I thought Shogun should have got at least a draw though he dominated the last two rounds, Hendo was done completely after 3 rounds.

Not sure what I think of Hendo fighting for the title. I give him virtually no chance against Jon Jones, he won't last the distance imo and will get completely destroyed.

Cung Lee is like all the other Asian figters on the octagon. Technically amazing but not a real fighter.
I knew he would get knocked out, he's an action movie star with some fancy kicks, not a real cage fighter. He wouldn't beat any of the top guys in that weight class. Wanderlai is still shot imo and will get sparked in his next step up fight.

[Snakey]

This is how I scored the main event:

Round 1 - Hendo 10-9
Round 2- Hendo 10-8
Round 3- Hendo 10-9
Round 4- Shogun 10 -9
Round 5- Shogun 10-8

Winner : Hendo 47 - 46

[mattboxingfan]

Epic fight, I thought Shogun should have got at least a draw though he dominated the last two rounds, Hendo was done completely after 3 rounds.

Not sure what I think of Hendo fighting for the title. I give him virtually no chance against Jon Jones, he won't last the distance imo and will get completely destroyed.

Cung Lee is like all the other Asian figters on the octagon. Technically amazing but not a real fighter.
I knew he would get knocked out, he's an action movie star with some fancy kicks, not a real cage fighter. He wouldn't beat any of the top guys in that weight class. Wanderlai is still shot imo and will get sparked in his next step up fight.

You gave him no chance against any of the top guys in the UFC and yet he just beat Shogun. Not long until he gets that strap and proves alot more people wrong.

[Captain America]

Cung Lee is like all the other Asian figters on the octagon. Technically amazing but not a real fighter.
I knew he would get knocked out, he's an action movie star with some fancy kicks, not a real cage fighter. He wouldn't beat any of the top guys in that weight class.

What the fuck are you smoking and why aren't you sharing?

Cung was winning the fight until he got caught. He clearly had Wanderlei hurt and, instead of going for the kill, went for a hilight reel kick KO.

Cung Le's combat sport records:
17-0 in kickboxing
16-0 in Sanshou
7-2 in MMA

Cung Le's titles:
In amateur wrestling:

California Community College Athletic AssociationState Championship (1990)
Amateur Athletic Union Espior Freestyle National Championship (1989)
AAU Espior Greco-Roman National Championship (1989)

In kickboxing:

International Kickboxing Federation Sanshou World Light Heavyweight Championship
International Sport Karate Association Sanshou North American Light Heavyweight Sanshou Championship
ISKA Sanshou U.S. Light Heavyweight Championship
ISKA Sanshou U.S. Light Cruiserweight Championship
World Wide Draka Federation
1998 Draka Tournament Winner
Shidokan Cup Bare-Knuckle Full Contact Karate
1998 Shidokan Cup U.S. Tournament Winner
1999 WWC Sanshou Bronze Medalist
1997 WWC Sanshou Bronze Medalist
1995 WWC Sanshou Bronze Medalist
Black Belt Magazine
2007 Kung Fu Artist of the Year

In MMA:

Strikeforce Middleweight Championship (volintarily vacated)

In submission grappling:

Amateur Athletic Union Espior Sambo National Championship (1989)

When does he get to be considered a "real cagefighter"?

[Mattyhitman]

In the style of Joe Rogan ........ WOW !!!

That has got to be one of, if not THE best UFC card i've seen in a long while! Bar the Bonnar and Kampmann fights all were cracking fights !! Topped off with possibly the best fight in UFC history

Really impressed with the darce choke finish of Weidman over Lawlor, this kid has got great potential! Ya dont see many opponents left asleep on the mat!

Faber again shows he's one of the top dog's in the division with the victory over Bowles, showed really good stand-up, that uppercut was lethal! and foolowed it up with great groundwork to get the submission! Set's up the trilogy with Cruz, that will be another belter no doubt !

As for Silva, well that was classic Silva, once he managed to get inside those ridiculous kick from Cung Le he showed his class with his Muay Thai and finished clinically. I thought he was done in the first round mind, but that was pure classic Axe Murderer!

As Snakey had it I had the score the same, 47-46, very close fight which had everything, great standup fighting, and even better groundwork from both fighter. How on earth Shogun didnt finish that fight in the last round i'll never know. Well I do he was just goosed. To have full mount for practically the whole of the round and not get the finish will be hard to take for him.

If this sets up the match with Jones, then bring it on. It will be a tough fight for Hendo, simply because he will find it hard to get inside Jones' reach. The wrestling will be be pretty much equal, Jones will be so much stronger than Hendo in the clinch.
Jones will frustrate Hendo into throwing bombs from distance and repeatedly catch him coming in. I see a 3/4th rd stoppage by TKO or submission for Jones.

[Kev]

Cung Lee is like all the other Asian figters on the octagon. Technically amazing but not a real fighter.
I knew he would get knocked out, he's an action movie star with some fancy kicks, not a real cage fighter. He wouldn't beat any of the top guys in that weight class.

What the fuck are you smoking and why aren't you sharing?

Cung was winning the fight until he got caught. He clearly had Wanderlei hurt and, instead of going for the kill, went for a hilight reel kick KO.

Cung Le's combat sport records:
17-0 in kickboxing
16-0 in Sanshou
7-2 in MMA

Cung Le's titles:
In amateur wrestling:

California Community College Athletic AssociationState Championship (1990)
Amateur Athletic Union Espior Freestyle National Championship (1989)
AAU Espior Greco-Roman National Championship (1989)

In kickboxing:

International Kickboxing Federation Sanshou World Light Heavyweight Championship
International Sport Karate Association Sanshou North American Light Heavyweight Sanshou Championship
ISKA Sanshou U.S. Light Heavyweight Championship
ISKA Sanshou U.S. Light Cruiserweight Championship
World Wide Draka Federation
1998 Draka Tournament Winner
Shidokan Cup Bare-Knuckle Full Contact Karate
1998 Shidokan Cup U.S. Tournament Winner
1999 WWC Sanshou Bronze Medalist
1997 WWC Sanshou Bronze Medalist
1995 WWC Sanshou Bronze Medalist
Black Belt Magazine
2007 Kung Fu Artist of the Year

In MMA:

Strikeforce Middleweight Championship (volintarily vacated)

In submission grappling:

Amateur Athletic Union Espior Sambo National Championship (1989)

When does he get to be considered a "real cagefighter"?

I'm not disputing he's a great skillful technician, his skill set is just not that suited to real MMA fighting against the world best. His MMA record is pretty poor. His best win is over Frank Shamrock. He lost to a shot Wanderlei and was Ko'd by a mediocre Strikeforce champ.

If you think he could hang with any of the top guys at the weight class I think you are delusional. Guys like Munoz, Leben, Silva, Sonnen, Stamm etc would all completely mash him up. It's not hating, it's just a fact. You think he wins any of those fights? How? His strnegth is fancy eye catching kicks. Looks great, doesn't win fights against a guy who will just spark you out when he lands his bombs though.

Cung will have one or two more fights in the UFc, lose them all and then quit.

[Kev]

Epic fight, I thought Shogun should have got at least a draw though he dominated the last two rounds, Hendo was done completely after 3 rounds.

Not sure what I think of Hendo fighting for the title. I give him virtually no chance against Jon Jones, he won't last the distance imo and will get completely destroyed.

Cung Lee is like all the other Asian figters on the octagon. Technically amazing but not a real fighter.
I knew he would get knocked out, he's an action movie star with some fancy kicks, not a real cage fighter. He wouldn't beat any of the top guys in that weight class. Wanderlai is still shot imo and will get sparked in his next step up fight.

You gave him no chance against any of the top guys in the UFC and yet he just beat Shogun. Not long until he gets that strap and proves alot more people wrong.

That fight just proved my point. I didn't say he had no chance against Shogun. On the contrary I said he was at about that level, slightly above Forrest Griffin. Going life and death with Shogun, himself frustratingly inconsistent, in a fight where he seconds away from being finished, squeaking a decision because of his early work just shows the gulf between him and Jon Jones.

Seriously, on that performance you think he's going to be UFC champ?

I like Hendo, he's a tough, hard man and exciting to watch but the gulf between him and Jones/Silva is the same as the gulf betwee Hatton and Mayweather.

He has a punchers chance in the first round and that is it. Fighting a war with a guy Jones literally destroyed just confirms that.

[Kev]

This is what I said about Hendo's chances a couple months back

Guys I'm not knocking Hendo I think he's a great fighter, I'm just saying that as he tried, and failed to conquer the UFC a few years ago and failed I don't see it that likely that he will go return and become the UFC champion.

Yes he has a punchers chance, and knowing Dana could well come back and virtually walk into a title shot off the back of the Fedor win so it's not impossible.

I just think the best guys are all ahead of him right now and I'd fancy Jones, Rampage, Rashaad and Machida over hij, maybe Rua too.

Saying he's on a level with Forrest Griffin isn't a bad thing. He's had some good wins. But I'm sure none of you realistically expect Griffin to be UFC champion again, and I'd say the same of Hendo.

Although following on from his win over Fedor if he does come back he will likely land a big fight.

I'm just going to stick my neck out and say against one of those top guys I mentioned he won't win it.

Fair enough, he did beat Shogun, barely, although he was on his way to getting stopped. Shigun imo is the weakest of the recent UFC champiosn, along with Griffin.

Hendo fought a great fight but showed his limits. Jones will beat him easily.

[VictorCharlie]

I thought the Hendo/Shogun fight was a push odds wise. Other than Hendo's cardio it played it out like I thought. Shogun's aggression was solidly countered by Dan's power. In regards to Dan vs Jones I just don't think Dan is versatile enough or athletic enough to win. Shogun has good striking but its not particularly technical which with Dan's chin and power was countered well. Jones does a particularly good jab at mixing his striking and wrestling to keep his opponent off balance. While Dan is a decorated wrestler he doesn't use it very well offensively or as TD defense. Shields took him down at will and Shogun had success as well. I don't see Dan being able to dictate where and how a fight with Jones happens. His durability and power combined with Jone's flashy striking will provide some opportunities to test the champs beard but I think Jones wins a wide UD or late stoppage. If I were Dan I'd get with Randy and train hard on dirty boxing. His best chance will be to keep Jones against the fence and rough him up on the way to an ugly win. That is a tough task though.

[Kev]

I thought the Hendo/Shogun fight was a push odds wise. Other than Hendo's cardio it played it out like I thought. Shogun's aggression was solidly countered by Dan's power. In regards to Dan vs Jones I just don't think Dan is versatile enough or athletic enough to win. Shogun has good striking but its not particularly technical which with Dan's chin and power was countered well. Jones does a particularly good jab at mixing his striking and wrestling to keep his opponent off balance. While Dan is a decorated wrestler he doesn't use it very well offensively or as TD defense. Shields took him down at will and Shogun had success as well. I don't see Dan being able to dictate where and how a fight with Jones happens. His durability and power combined with Jone's flashy striking will provide some opportunities to test the champs beard but I think Jones wins a wide UD or late stoppage. If I were Dan I'd get with Randy and train hard on dirty boxing. His best chance will be to keep Jones against the fence and rough him up on the way to an ugly win. That is a tough task though.

I have no doubt if he landed on Jones he could finish him. I don't see a young kid like Jones standing up Hendo's proven power. So I give a punchers chance. But Jones is so long limbed he can attack from several yards away, it's like a US aircraft carrier shelling an island out of reach of the nation's defences. I just see it going almost exactly the way the fight with Jones and Rampage did, Hendo being beaten on the outside and then choked out in the championship rounds.

For me, the 205 division has been the weakest in terms of the man at the top for a while. Great strength in depth, lots of very good fighters, nobody great. At welter you have St Pierre, middle Silva, heavyweight Cain and Dos Santos. Light heavy for me didn't have a truly great fighter until Jones came along all the top guys were capable of beating each other, which is why even Forrest Griffin got a belt, and why nobody kept it for more than one or two defences.

Hendo, Machida, Rampage, Rashad, Griffin, Rua etc are all very similar talentwise. There is less seperating any of them, than the gap between them all and Jones. I don't give any of them a shot at upsetting him, other than through some freakish event, shock one punch KO in the first round, DQ, injury etc.

[mattboxingfan]

This is what I said about Hendo's chances a couple months back

Guys I'm not knocking Hendo I think he's a great fighter, I'm just saying that as he tried, and failed to conquer the UFC a few years ago and failed I don't see it that likely that he will go return and become the UFC champion.

Yes he has a punchers chance, and knowing Dana could well come back and virtually walk into a title shot off the back of the Fedor win so it's not impossible.

I just think the best guys are all ahead of him right now and I'd fancy Jones, Rampage, Rashaad and Machida over hij, maybe Rua too.

Saying he's on a level with Forrest Griffin isn't a bad thing. He's had some good wins. But I'm sure none of you realistically expect Griffin to be UFC champion again, and I'd say the same of Hendo.

Although following on from his win over Fedor if he does come back he will likely land a big fight.

I'm just going to stick my neck out and say against one of those top guys I mentioned he won't win it.

Fair enough, he did beat Shogun, barely, although he was on his way to getting stopped. Shigun imo is the weakest of the recent UFC champiosn, along with Griffin.

Hendo fought a great fight but showed his limits. Jones will beat him easily.

You change your tune to suit. You missed the bit were you list the fighters he wont be able to beat which had Shogun.

Barely beat Shogun? I think the only guy who almost got stopped was Shogun in that third round. Considering the change of main events being 5 rounders he would have had that fight in the bag had it been a 3 rounder not to mention it seem'd as though he hurt his hand which may have been the reason Shogun survived.

He won and he's coming for Jones.

[VictorCharlie]

I think Lyoto has the best chance of defeating Jones on paper. He has terrific TD defense and a very sound and awkward striking style. If Jones soundly beat Machida then other than landing that one big punch I don't see any of the LHW crop beating Jones.