Why is Lucian Bute regarded as the 2nd best Smw?

[Kev]

Cause ward would maul and potshot his ass to death. If andrade gave him problems, i can only imagine how ward would frustrate him. The thing about ward is most guys dont train on how to avoid the wrestling and stuff ward does. And if you prepare for one camp so what. Ward has been training on how to do it his whole career. Some may not like it , but while people complain about it, he's winning using it. While khan somewhere and golden boy are crying about a ref who tried to stop this type of crap. Ah well

Correct me if I'm wrong but the point of Finito's post, as an avowed Bute-hater, was to ask why Bute wasn't ranked lower, not why he was ranked behind Ward. In terms of Ward, all

we know for certain is that for whatever reason he doesn't want to face Bute right now. Andre Ward-Lucian Bute bout looks unlikely for time being - ESPN

Ward stated: "So I don't have to go to Lucian Bute right now. We're going to sit back and I'm going to rest and we'll see what's next. I'm open for a Mikkel Kessler clash."

Ward further stated: "It don't work like that. This is a sport, but we also use our brains for business, and we'll sit down and make a solid business decision"

Can we all agree that he's open to a Kessler fight because he knows that is an easier match-up for him? What other legitimate reason can he have to prefer Kessler?

To be fair I think Ward is entitled to choose who he wants to fight at this point, he has easily the best resume at super middle. I don't think he is dodging Bute at all. As he has just taken part in the super six and become a Showtime regular maybe he sees the best commercial appeal for his next fight in staying with Showtime and the super six fighter roster for now. A rematch with the popular samr, back to.winning ways after an injury layoff is an easy fight to make, both sets of promoters used to dealing with each other, Showtime happy to broadcast, both fighters knowing their relative worth and value. It makes sense he would pursue that next.

He will fight Bute, but on his own terms I imagine, when he has the most leverage.

Either day its ridiculous to suggest he is dodging Bute. You don't sign up to and win the Super Six without being willing to risk it all and face the best.

[erics44]

Record not resume

dont start adobting stoopid american terms that sound shitter than the british version

alright the americans have introduced some good terminology like Awesome (but only when said in a kind of sarcastic way) but Resume sounds gay

by the way Bute hasnt done anything to deserve his status as the second best super middle in the world, the ring and everyone else need to base their judgement on fact rather than opinion

he looks very good but until he has beaten a top contender then he cant be rated that high

its like saying one football team is better than another coz they have beaten lots of championship teams and the other has had mixed success against prem teams, get me?

[Dropanuke]

Record not resume

dont start adobting stoopid american terms that sound shitter than the british version

alright the americans have introduced some good terminology like Awesome (but only when said in a kind of sarcastic way) but Resume sounds gay

by the way Bute hasnt done anything to deserve his status as the second best super middle in the world, the ring and everyone else need to base their judgement on fact rather than opinion

he looks very good but until he has beaten a top contender then he cant be rated that high

its like saying one football team is better than another coz they have beaten lots of championship teams and the other has had mixed success against prem teams, get me?

I like

[Rantcatrat]

Cause ward would maul and potshot his ass to death. If andrade gave him problems, i can only imagine how ward would frustrate him. The thing about ward is most guys dont train on how to avoid the wrestling and stuff ward does. And if you prepare for one camp so what. Ward has been training on how to do it his whole career. Some may not like it , but while people complain about it, he's winning using it. While khan somewhere and golden boy are crying about a ref who tried to stop this type of crap. Ah well

Correct me if I'm wrong but the point of Finito's post, as an avowed Bute-hater, was to ask why Bute wasn't ranked lower, not why he was ranked behind Ward. In terms of Ward, all

we know for certain is that for whatever reason he doesn't want to face Bute right now. Andre Ward-Lucian Bute bout looks unlikely for time being - ESPN

Ward stated: "So I don't have to go to Lucian Bute right now. We're going to sit back and I'm going to rest and we'll see what's next. I'm open for a Mikkel Kessler clash."

Ward further stated: "It don't work like that. This is a sport, but we also use our brains for business, and we'll sit down and make a solid business decision"

Can we all agree that he's open to a Kessler fight because he knows that is an easier match-up for him? What other legitimate reason can he have to prefer Kessler?

To be fair I think Ward is entitled to choose who he wants to fight at this point, he has easily the best resume at super middle. I don't think he is dodging Bute at all. As he has just taken part in the super six and become a Showtime regular maybe he sees the best commercial appeal for his next fight in staying with Showtime and the super six fighter roster for now. A rematch with the popular samr, back to.winning ways after an injury layoff is an easy fight to make, both sets of promoters used to dealing with each other, Showtime happy to broadcast, both fighters knowing their relative worth and value. It makes sense he would pursue that next.

He will fight Bute, but on his own terms I imagine, when he has the most leverage.

Either day its ridiculous to suggest he is dodging Bute. You don't sign up to and win the Super Six without being willing to risk it all and face the best.

It appears that is what I was insinuating and if that is the case, it was inadvertant. I meant to just pose the question why is Ward not fighting Bute now?

I can see if he faced Kessler and beat him that he may have gained leverage, but if Bute faces Froch now, the consensus number three in the division, it is negated. The likelihood is that Ward takes care of his mandatory in Anthony Dirrell, which won't gain him any leverage. Frankly, I don't believe there is any reason to not take Ward at his word. This is a business and when you weigh the risks/rewards, Kessler is less risk and as much reward as Bute.

I also submit that Kessler won't face Ward again for a while because he can make so much money in Denmark. Given his injuries and S6 performances, Kessler's best days are behind him. The old Kessler would have gone for glory and signed up to fight Bute as opposed to taking on Steiglitz, someone who Andrade beat. It's really a huge step back for Kessler, but a smart business decision because once he has the belt, he can keep it hostage in Denmark for a while. Kessler may have earned that right, don't get me wrong. There is a possibility Kessler unifies with the winner of Froch/Bute especially if it is Froch, but I sort of doubt it.

Moreover, Bute and Kessler in their respective hometowns are the number one and two money-makers in the division even if Ward is the number one fighter. If Bute beats Froch and/or Kessler, and Ward takes on Anthony Dirrell in his mandatory, Ward will have less leverage than he has now, right? Now, he is the MAN in the division based on his wins over Froch and Kessler. If Bute matches that, his number one ranking becomes a bit murkier. So, I don't see any reason he isn't fighting Bute other than it's a bigger risk than Kessler etc.

[Rantcatrat]

I'm aware that Bute is one of the least favorite guys on this forum as many people dislike him (erics, finito, mar, terrorsid, formerly bilbo to name a few) because they rightly or wrongly believe he is overrated because he hasn't faced Froch, Kessler, or Ward. The only way we can be sure if he is the goods is after he faces Froch or Kessler given that Ward won't fight him now. Do even the naysayers agree that is a fair assessement? The only other thing I would bring up is Ward has leapfrogged up into top 5 p4p essentially because he beat Froch so if Bute can do that too, can we agree that we should place him in the same regard?

[Gandalf]

I'm aware that Bute is one of the least favorite guys on this forum as many people dislike him (erics, finito, mar, terrorsid, formerly bilbo to name a few) because they rightly or wrongly believe he is overrated because he hasn't faced Froch, Kessler, or Ward. The only way we can be sure if he is the goods is after he faces Froch or Kessler given that Ward won't fight him now. Do even the naysayers agree that is a fair assessement? The only other thing I would bring up is Ward has leapfrogged up into top 5 p4p essentially because he beat Froch so if Bute can do that too, can we agree that we should place him in the same regard?

Ward is not top 5 in the world, but Bute does need to fight some more of those opponents. Johnson is soooooooooo old. He should never have been in the Super 6.

[LobowolfXXX]

I think your anti-Christian bias is affecting your assessment of Ward. Perhaps if he goes atheist, you'll be able to more accurately evaluate him. There's just no way in hell Kessler will ever be "the man" in the 168-pound division unless Ward moves up or retires. He has neither the speed nor the versatility to threaten him.

[Gandalf]

I think your anti-Christian bias is affecting your assessment of Ward. Perhaps if he goes atheist, you'll be able to more accurately evaluate him. There's just no way in hell Kessler will ever be "the man" in the 168-pound division unless Ward moves up or retires. He has neither the speed nor the versatility to threaten him.

Are you another Yank with an unscientific mindview? Read some papers which are supported by logic and avoid that Bible nonsense. And it is, it has nothing to support it.

I enjoy boxing, but when fighters talk shit I do laugh at them.

[LobowolfXXX]

I think your anti-Christian bias is affecting your assessment of Ward. Perhaps if he goes atheist, you'll be able to more accurately evaluate him. There's just no way in hell Kessler will ever be "the man" in the 168-pound division unless Ward moves up or retires. He has neither the speed nor the versatility to threaten him.

Are you another Yank with an unscientific mindview? Read some papers which are supported by logic and avoid that Bible nonsense. And it is, it has nothing to support it.

I enjoy boxing, but when fighters talk shit I do laugh at them.

Perhaps your worldview has impaired your ability to understand my argument. I did not say or suggest that lack of belief in Christianity is incorrect; merely that it may be impeding your objectivity. FWIW, I am not a theist (though I know many extremely intelligent and logic-minded people who are).

But that's really a side issue. You've pointed out bias (or at least perceived bias, or the possibility of bias) in others; are you really so sure that absolutely no bias might be affecting your own beliefs? I'm rather inclined to think that nobody is entirely free of bias (though people have it in varying degrees).