Game of Thrones (spoilers)

[killersheep]

For me Dostoevsky, Dickens, Orwell and Burroughs are great writers. People who write about dwarves tend not to be great writers. They can concoct fun stories, but I don't regard them as great. That is why Lord of the Rings is great fun for kids. They are fun adventure books, but little more. The aforementioned writers define humanity with its highs and it's lows and offer vivid reflections of society at large. Fantasy books lack that power. You could argue that 1984 is fantasy, but really it is a massive mirror of totalitarian society. I am unlikely to ever come across a talking tree.

So you haven't read the books, have no interest in the books or series as a genre, yet joined in a discussion about it? Slow day at Saddoboxing.

Nope, the title makes me afraid to read. My last post was about great writers and my belief that anything involving goblins and such is seldom the terrain of great writers. Fantasy is fun for oddball kids. Mind you, I am Gandalf, so should probably bugger off to a cave and write an autobiography or something. I'm sure some dude in eyeliner will love it.

You're such a Gradgrind.

I know, and I said sorry. I mean it.

As a point of context "Gradgrind" was my word of the day and I had to use it. It kind of applied to this conversation on a few levels. Thanks for the help bro!

You are too intellectual for an decadent old dead fool such as myself. I am glad I was of help.

Oh come now, I know I'm the village idiot. No illusions about that.

[Gandalf]

For me Dostoevsky, Dickens, Orwell and Burroughs are great writers. People who write about dwarves tend not to be great writers. They can concoct fun stories, but I don't regard them as great. That is why Lord of the Rings is great fun for kids. They are fun adventure books, but little more. The aforementioned writers define humanity with its highs and it's lows and offer vivid reflections of society at large. Fantasy books lack that power. You could argue that 1984 is fantasy, but really it is a massive mirror of totalitarian society. I am unlikely to ever come across a talking tree.

So you haven't read the books, have no interest in the books or series as a genre, yet joined in a discussion about it? Slow day at Saddoboxing.

Nope, the title makes me afraid to read. My last post was about great writers and my belief that anything involving goblins and such is seldom the terrain of great writers. Fantasy is fun for oddball kids. Mind you, I am Gandalf, so should probably bugger off to a cave and write an autobiography or something. I'm sure some dude in eyeliner will love it.

You're such a Gradgrind.

I know, and I said sorry. I mean it.

As a point of context "Gradgrind" was my word of the day and I had to use it. It kind of applied to this conversation on a few levels. Thanks for the help bro!

You are too intellectual for an decadent old dead fool such as myself. I am glad I was of help.

Oh come now, I know I'm the village idiot. No illusions about that.

I would rather be the village idiot than me. He has an easy life.

[OumaFan]

the fifth book certainly lagged in the middle but overall I thought it was better than Crows. I liked both books but more in the sense of comparing them to other books. They don't stand up as well compared to the first three.

There are certain things that annoyed me about the fifth but it would be extremely spoiler-ish to discuss it. I could start another thread for readers only but really that would be geek overload. Its not as bad as talking about Lost (but what about the polar bear?), but its a bit much.

[El Kabong]

....which page is the naked blonde girl on

[CFH]

the fifth book certainly lagged in the middle but overall I thought it was better than Crows. I liked both books but more in the sense of comparing them to other books. They don't stand up as well compared to the first three.

There are certain things that annoyed me about the fifth but it would be extremely spoiler-ish to discuss it. I could start another thread for readers only but really that would be geek overload. Its not as bad as talking about Lost (but what about the polar bear?), but its a bit much.

I'm about 150 pages into the 5th book. It's better than Crows, but it still hasn't grabbed me like book 1-3. I just think the story has become too bloated, fragmented, and disconnect. Martin has lost control.

Also, knowing the fat old bastard is going to die before it ever gets finished may also have helped kill my enthusiasm.

[OumaFan]

He's got to stick to 7 books. And the next one needs to be like 2 years from now, not 5 or 6.

I've never read those wheel of time books and don't have any plans to do so (way too many books to read). But from all I've heard they turned to absolute shit for the last four or five books before the guy died, but now they've got this new guy writing them with the previous author's help and they're supposedly much better. So maybe that will happen.

I don't think the last two have been absolute shit though.

[CFH]

He's got to stick to 7 books. And the next one needs to be like 2 years from now, not 5 or 6.

I've never read those wheel of time books and don't have any plans to do so (way too many books to read). But from all I've heard they turned to absolute shit for the last four or five books before the guy died, but now they've got this new guy writing them with the previous author's help and they're supposedly much better. So maybe that will happen.

I don't think the last two have been absolute shit though.

I think the last WoT book I read was number 6 or 7.

The difference between Jordan and Martin is that Jordan had everything planned out well in advance. He knew exactly where his story was going, so it was relatively easy for another author to pick it up for him. Martin openly admits he is just winging it.

[AdamGB]

For me Dostoevsky, Dickens, Orwell and Burroughs are great writers. People who write about dwarves tend not to be great writers. They can concoct fun stories, but I don't regard them as great. That is why Lord of the Rings is great fun for kids. They are fun adventure books, but little more. The aforementioned writers define humanity with its highs and it's lows and offer vivid reflections of society at large. Fantasy books lack that power. You could argue that 1984 is fantasy, but really it is a massive mirror of totalitarian society. I am unlikely to ever come across a talking tree.

Did you completely miss all of the themes in the lord of the rings or are you just ignorant?

Much like game of thrones is inspired by the war of the roses LOTR was based international politics and tolkien's experience in WW2, the mechinisation of war, the decay of society, fucking geonocide to name but a few.

Edit: am I really explaining lotr to 'gandalf'?!

If you actually read the books it seems like you missed a lot.

[Gandalf]

For me Dostoevsky, Dickens, Orwell and Burroughs are great writers. People who write about dwarves tend not to be great writers. They can concoct fun stories, but I don't regard them as great. That is why Lord of the Rings is great fun for kids. They are fun adventure books, but little more. The aforementioned writers define humanity with its highs and it's lows and offer vivid reflections of society at large. Fantasy books lack that power. You could argue that 1984 is fantasy, but really it is a massive mirror of totalitarian society. I am unlikely to ever come across a talking tree.

Did you completely miss all of the themes in the lord of the rings or are you just ignorant?

Much like game of thrones is inspired by the war of the roses LOTR was based international politics and tolkien's experience in WW2, the mechinisation of war, the decay of society, fucking geonocide to name but a few.

Edit: am I really explaining lotr to 'gandalf'?!

If you actually read the books it seems like you missed a lot.

Oh dear. Lord of the rings is mainly read by children for good reason. Yes, there are themes but there are also characters like Tom Bombadil, dwarves and goblins. That stuff is gay and as far as I am aware, pure fantasy land. If you hold that as mighty literature then good for you, but I would much rather read something like 1984 or Crime and Punishment to get my insights into character and overriding 'themes'.

'Fucking genocide'? A strange way to put it IMO. You should probably calm down. Lord of the rings is what it is. It is fun, but hardly the pinnacle of all that is great in literature.

[killersheep]

For me Dostoevsky, Dickens, Orwell and Burroughs are great writers. People who write about dwarves tend not to be great writers. They can concoct fun stories, but I don't regard them as great. That is why Lord of the Rings is great fun for kids. They are fun adventure books, but little more. The aforementioned writers define humanity with its highs and it's lows and offer vivid reflections of society at large. Fantasy books lack that power. You could argue that 1984 is fantasy, but really it is a massive mirror of totalitarian society. I am unlikely to ever come across a talking tree.

Did you completely miss all of the themes in the lord of the rings or are you just ignorant?

Much like game of thrones is inspired by the war of the roses LOTR was based international politics and tolkien's experience in WW2, the mechinisation of war, the decay of society, fucking geonocide to name but a few.

Edit: am I really explaining lotr to 'gandalf'?!

If you actually read the books it seems like you missed a lot.

Oh dear. Lord of the rings is mainly read by children for good reason. Yes, there are themes but there are also characters like Tom Bombadil, dwarves and goblins. That stuff is gay and as far as I am aware, pure fantasy land. If you hold that as mighty literature then good for you, but I would much rather read something like 1984 or Crime and Punishment to get my insights into character and overriding 'themes'.

'Fucking genocide'? A strange way to put it IMO. You should probably calm down. Lord of the rings is what it is. It is fun, but hardly the pinnacle of all that is great in literature.

You could go with reading a book for fun once in a while.

[killersheep]

I'm about 500 pages into the DwD now, trying to finish before season 2 starts.

[Gandalf]

For me Dostoevsky, Dickens, Orwell and Burroughs are great writers. People who write about dwarves tend not to be great writers. They can concoct fun stories, but I don't regard them as great. That is why Lord of the Rings is great fun for kids. They are fun adventure books, but little more. The aforementioned writers define humanity with its highs and it's lows and offer vivid reflections of society at large. Fantasy books lack that power. You could argue that 1984 is fantasy, but really it is a massive mirror of totalitarian society. I am unlikely to ever come across a talking tree.

Did you completely miss all of the themes in the lord of the rings or are you just ignorant?

Much like game of thrones is inspired by the war of the roses LOTR was based international politics and tolkien's experience in WW2, the mechinisation of war, the decay of society, fucking geonocide to name but a few.

Edit: am I really explaining lotr to 'gandalf'?!

If you actually read the books it seems like you missed a lot.

Oh dear. Lord of the rings is mainly read by children for good reason. Yes, there are themes but there are also characters like Tom Bombadil, dwarves and goblins. That stuff is gay and as far as I am aware, pure fantasy land. If you hold that as mighty literature then good for you, but I would much rather read something like 1984 or Crime and Punishment to get my insights into character and overriding 'themes'.

'Fucking genocide'? A strange way to put it IMO. You should probably calm down. Lord of the rings is what it is. It is fun, but hardly the pinnacle of all that is great in literature.

You could go with reading a book for fun once in a while.

I did, that's why I decided to become a Jack the Ripper expert!

Lord of the Rings is fun enough and I have no qualms with people enjoying it. I just don't regard it as masterful literature.

[AdamGB]

How much of 1984 would you miss if you read it when you were 9?

A book that can be enjoyed by younger and older readers alike on different levels is masterful.

[Gandalf]

How much of 1984 would you miss if you read it when you were 9?

A book that can be enjoyed by younger and older readers alike on different levels is masterful.

Younger people can enjoy Orwell, I first got into him through my school library. Every kid has read Animal Farm. That is a book that can be enjoyed as a fairy story for kids or a critique of Soviet Communism as an adult. 1984 emerges when you enter your teens.

As I keep repeating Tolkien can be fun, but it isn't higher literature. People don't study it on English courses for good reason. There are better books to analyze. It is correct that kids study To Kill a Mockingbird, Great Expectations and King Lear over LoTR.

But if you like it then that is COOL. I don't have an issue with you and others liking it a lot, I just don't elevate it like you do. I like it too, but it simply isn't anything I would put in my list of top 100 books to read in my final month to live or anything like that. I am not Christopher Lee.

[Gandalf]

Not that I read 100 books a month. Let's change that to final year rather than month. I am not Chomsky.