Non-British perspective: Froch easier to like than was Calzaghe

[TitoFan]

This thread is different class.

TitoFan, if you want to redeem yourself, all you have to do is name the supermiddles Calzaghe ducked? Simple as that. Fact.

You're the one who needs redeeming, Fenny. No objectiveness... no sense of humor... total lack of touch with reality. Make up shit as you go along. Now I claimed Calzaghe ducked anyone? Quote me, oh Deluded One.

[Fenster]

I beg to differ with the Calzaghe/Hopkins/Marciano opponents comparison. Hopkins, throughout his remarkable career, fought more than a handful of big name opponents. His list more than stacks up against Calzaghe's opponents list, IMO. Marciano I'm not too sure about.

Explain the difference between Hopkins and Cazlaghe's title defences?

[TitoFan]

I beg to differ with the Calzaghe/Hopkins/Marciano opponents comparison. Hopkins, throughout his remarkable career, fought more than a handful of big name opponents. His list more than stacks up against Calzaghe's opponents list, IMO. Marciano I'm not too sure about.

Explain the difference between Hopkins and Cazlaghe's title defences?

First, you claim I said Calzaghe ducked people. There goes what little's left of your credibility right there. Second, I said "opponents". You're specifying "title defenses". Another blow to your negligible credibility. But I'll humor you and list the opponents:

Hopkins

Glen Johnson
Keith Holmes
Felix Trinidad
William Joppy
Oscar de la Hoya
Howard Eastman
Jermain Taylor (twice)
Antonio Tarver
Winky Wright
Joe Calzaghe
Kelly Pavlik
Roy Jones Jr.
Chad Dawson

Calzaghe

Eubank
Jeff Lacy
Kessler
Hopkins
RJJ


Oh...... and Peter Manfredo.

Next!

[BIG H]

I beg to differ with the Calzaghe/Hopkins/Marciano opponents comparison. Hopkins, throughout his remarkable career, fought more than a handful of big name opponents. His list more than stacks up against Calzaghe's opponents list, IMO. Marciano I'm not too sure about.

Explain the difference between Hopkins and Cazlaghe's title defences?

First, you claim I said Calzaghe ducked people. There goes what little's left of your credibility right there. Second, I said "opponents". You're specifying "title defenses". Another blow to your negligible credibility. But I'll humor you and list the opponents:

Hopkins

Glen Johnson
Keith Holmes
Felix Trinidad
William Joppy
Oscar de la Hoya
Howard Eastman
Jermain Taylor (twice)
Antonio Tarver
Winky Wright
Joe Calzaghe
Kelly Pavlik
Roy Jones Jr.
Chad Dawson

Calzaghe

Eubank
Jeff Lacy
Kessler
Hopkins
RJJ


Oh...... and Peter Manfredo.

Next!

Those Nard fights weren't all his Middleweight defences and he lost to 4 of the guys on your list.

B-Hop's reign at MW was no better than JC's at SMW. JC's opposition was medicore until Lacy/Kessler. B-Hop's opposition was mediocre until Tito. Doesn't mean that either one of them was not the best in their division, but both records are pretty equal.

[TitoFan]

I beg to differ with the Calzaghe/Hopkins/Marciano opponents comparison. Hopkins, throughout his remarkable career, fought more than a handful of big name opponents. His list more than stacks up against Calzaghe's opponents list, IMO. Marciano I'm not too sure about.

Explain the difference between Hopkins and Cazlaghe's title defences?

First, you claim I said Calzaghe ducked people. There goes what little's left of your credibility right there. Second, I said "opponents". You're specifying "title defenses". Another blow to your negligible credibility. But I'll humor you and list the opponents:

Hopkins

Glen Johnson
Keith Holmes
Felix Trinidad
William Joppy
Oscar de la Hoya
Howard Eastman
Jermain Taylor (twice)
Antonio Tarver
Winky Wright
Joe Calzaghe
Kelly Pavlik
Roy Jones Jr.
Chad Dawson

Calzaghe

Eubank
Jeff Lacy
Kessler
Hopkins
RJJ


Oh...... and Peter Manfredo.

Next!

Those Nard fights weren't all his Middleweight defences and he lost to 4 of the guys on your list.

B-Hop's reign at MW was no better than JC's at SMW. JC's opposition was medicore until Lacy/Kessler. B-Hop's opposition was mediocre until Tito. Doesn't mean that either one of them was not the best in their division, but both records are pretty equal.

My original claim was that Bernard's list of opponents stacks up better than Calzaghe's list of opponents, and I still feel that way. I went back over both lists, and there's no way I can feel any different. I do agree, however, that they were both the best in their respective divisions during their reigns. In all honesty, I probably should have omitted DLH from the Hopkins list. De La Hoya had no business at 160..... never did anything worthy of note at 160, other than get a gift decision against Felix Sturm. DLH's fight against Hopkins, IMO, should not be considered a major accomplishment in Hopkins' career. But the rest of the list is still more impressive than Calzaghe's. Maybe not JC's fault, just like it won't be Wlad's fault that his list of opponents has been shit when he's done with his career. It's just circumstance. And yet... I failed to see a "Peter Manfredo" in Hopkins list of opponents at a comparable stage of his career. There's no way to talk up Manfredo. He was a bum.

[Dia bando]

Calzaghe's list theses are either currant or ex World Champions.
RJJ
B Hopkins
M Kessler
J Lacy
B Mitchell
C Brewer
R Woodhall
R Reid
C Eubank
In that list are 10 World Champions some very good fighters, he all so faced many contenders some good and some not so good. But the same for all Champions don't face all good contenders.
There are a lot of people slag Joe off who he faced, but in that 10 there are some great fighters,so
please get your facts right.

[Fenster]

I beg to differ with the Calzaghe/Hopkins/Marciano opponents comparison. Hopkins, throughout his remarkable career, fought more than a handful of big name opponents. His list more than stacks up against Calzaghe's opponents list, IMO. Marciano I'm not too sure about.

Explain the difference between Hopkins and Cazlaghe's title defences?

First, you claim I said Calzaghe ducked people. There goes what little's left of your credibility right there. Second, I said "opponents". You're specifying "title defenses". Another blow to your negligible credibility. But I'll humor you and list the opponents:

Hopkins

Glen Johnson
Keith Holmes
Felix Trinidad
William Joppy
Oscar de la Hoya
Howard Eastman
Jermain Taylor (twice)
Antonio Tarver
Winky Wright
Joe Calzaghe
Kelly Pavlik
Roy Jones Jr.
Chad Dawson

Calzaghe

Eubank
Jeff Lacy
Kessler
Hopkins
RJJ


Oh...... and Peter Manfredo.

Next!

Its not Calzaghes fault that 168 was anorexic at his peak anymore then it was the fault of Hopkins for a mediocre 160 division

I beg to differ with the Calzaghe/Hopkins/Marciano opponents comparison. Hopkins, throughout his remarkable career, fought more than a handful of big name opponents. His list more than stacks up against Calzaghe's opponents list, IMO.

You said "I beg to differ" about a comparison made between Calzaghe at 168 and Hopkins at 160. What does Hopkins post 160 career have to do with it?

It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with. Fact.

[TitoFan]

I beg to differ with the Calzaghe/Hopkins/Marciano opponents comparison. Hopkins, throughout his remarkable career, fought more than a handful of big name opponents. His list more than stacks up against Calzaghe's opponents list, IMO. Marciano I'm not too sure about.

Explain the difference between Hopkins and Cazlaghe's title defences?

First, you claim I said Calzaghe ducked people. There goes what little's left of your credibility right there. Second, I said "opponents". You're specifying "title defenses". Another blow to your negligible credibility. But I'll humor you and list the opponents:

Hopkins

Glen Johnson
Keith Holmes
Felix Trinidad
William Joppy
Oscar de la Hoya
Howard Eastman
Jermain Taylor (twice)
Antonio Tarver
Winky Wright
Joe Calzaghe
Kelly Pavlik
Roy Jones Jr.
Chad Dawson

Calzaghe

Eubank
Jeff Lacy
Kessler
Hopkins
RJJ


Oh...... and Peter Manfredo.

Next!

Its not Calzaghes fault that 168 was anorexic at his peak anymore then it was the fault of Hopkins for a mediocre 160 division

I beg to differ with the Calzaghe/Hopkins/Marciano opponents comparison. Hopkins, throughout his remarkable career, fought more than a handful of big name opponents. His list more than stacks up against Calzaghe's opponents list, IMO.

You said "I beg to differ" about a comparison made between Calzaghe at 168 and Hopkins at 160. What does Hopkins post 160 career have to do with it?

It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with. Fact.

(TitoFan sighs... and summons up patience in the face of ignorance)

I "beg to differ" about the comparison of the fighters' opponents throughout their careers. Are you grasping at straws now, out of sheer desperation, and the realization that you have no argument? So quality of opponents ceases to be a factor once you've changed divisions? We can only compare quality of opposition within specific weight divisions? Do you really believe your own shit? ......... really?

LOL... are we also referring to ourselves in the 3rd person now?
"It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with."

TitoFan says Fenster full of shit.

[Fenster]

(TitoFan sighs... and summons up patience in the face of ignorance)

I "beg to differ" about the comparison of the fighters' opponents throughout their careers. Are you grasping at straws now, out of sheer desperation, and the realization that you have no argument? So quality of opponents ceases to be a factor once you've changed divisions? We can only compare quality of opposition within specific weight divisions? Do you really believe your own shit? ......... really?

LOL... are we also referring to ourselves in the 3rd person now?
"It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with."

TitoFan says Fenster full of shit.

Insulting me doesn't disguise your glaring ignorance.

1. IamInuit SPECIFICALLY made a comparision between Hopkins and Calzaghe's divisional title runs. You SPECIFICALLY chose to answer "I beg to differ"

Now you either don't know anything about their career title runs or you didn't understand the point. Either way, the way you replied, you look stupid. Fact.

2. You were NEVER asked to name fighters YOU claim Calzaghe ducked. You were asked to name supermiddles that Cazlaghe didn't fight (ducked). This question stemmed SPECIFICALLY from your "I beg to differ" Hopkins/Calzaghe title run comparision.

So stop lying, stop crying and focus on the questions posed instead of insulting The Fenster. Fact

[BIG H]

Hopkins reign at MW stunk until Tito. Best wins Vanderpool and Johnson. It's a shocking set of defenses over a 7 year period. After Tito, he fought nobodies again at MW, until DLH, who was a former Lighweight. You can't give Hopkins credit for opponents he lost to in this argument (also not opponents that weren't at MW) The best wins of B-Hops career (imo) are Tito and Pavlik, followed by Tarver and Pascal. He lost to RJJ, Taylor and Calzaghe and therefore those fights are not valid in the argument about his resume.

Similarly JCs opponents stank up to Lacy. Brewer, Reid, Mitchell, Woodhall and Eubank are probably more credible than B-Hop's MW opponents.

I am saying this completely objectively! Neither had realy good wins until later in their careers. It's not their fault that the oppositions was so mediocre. Prime for Prime, p4p, taking everytghing into consideration, they are hard to split. Each beats everybody on each others records up to their defining fights.

[TitoFan]

(TitoFan sighs... and summons up patience in the face of ignorance)

I "beg to differ" about the comparison of the fighters' opponents throughout their careers. Are you grasping at straws now, out of sheer desperation, and the realization that you have no argument? So quality of opponents ceases to be a factor once you've changed divisions? We can only compare quality of opposition within specific weight divisions? Do you really believe your own shit? ......... really?

LOL... are we also referring to ourselves in the 3rd person now?
"It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with."

TitoFan says Fenster full of shit.

Insulting me doesn't disguise your glaring ignorance.

1. IamInuit SPECIFICALLY made a comparision between Hopkins and Calzaghe's divisional title runs. You SPECIFICALLY chose to answer "I beg to differ"

Now you either don't know anything about their career title runs or you didn't understand the point. Either way, the way you replied, you look stupid. Fact.

2. You were NEVER asked to name fighters YOU claim Calzaghe ducked. You were asked to name supermiddles that Cazlaghe didn't fight (ducked). This question stemmed SPECIFICALLY from your "I beg to differ" Hopkins/Calzaghe title run comparision.

So stop lying, stop crying and focus on the questions posed instead of insulting The Fenster. Fact

Look..... "The Fenster". And I'm going to say this as slowly as I can. No one said anything about Calzaghe ducking anybody in this argument. N-o-b-o-d-y. You were the one who brought it up... and you're using the pathetic argument as a battering ram. Do me a favor and shove it, ok?

Also, quit splitting hairs about whether we're talking about title runs or entire careers. My point is comparing quality of opposition. And that wasn't even my original point. I started this thread because I never liked Calzaghe's slapping style in the fights that I did see. I never claimed I saw early Calzaghe, before he broke his hands. To use your own warped logic, I can only discuss and report on the later fights I did see... and the so-called "flurries" which weren't really flurries at all, because they were slaps, not even landed with the legal part of the glove. And I used this rationale to state that Froch is easier to like than Calzaghe. Frome there, the thread has slightly degenerated. Mainly because you go off on tangents, as is your style, to back up your nonsense.

So back my main point: Froch is way easier to like than was Calzaghe... mainly because of his fighting style, vs. Calzaghe's style. Fact.