Larry Holmes---greatest of all-tıme?

[bigstinkybug]

*C'mon... i can mention 10 guys in the last 20 years that would beat Holmes... so NO... not even close.

[IamInuit]

*C'mon... i can mention 10 guys in the last 20 years that would beat Holmes... so NO... not even close.

So name them. 10 guys in the last 20 years?

[bigstinkybug]

*C'mon... i can mention 10 guys in the last 20 years that would beat Holmes... so NO... not even close.

*well..if i say it,i better be able to name them... let's see.
Ike Ibeabuchi:
Bowe:
Holyfeild
Byrd
Tyson
Vitali Klitsko
Wlad Klitsko
Lennox
Tua
I'm stuck on 9... David Haye.

Holmes had a nice jab, but really... what else. He had a super-fight with Cooney... that's a super-fight? That's the highlight of his career? He was taken to near death with Ken Norton at the end of Nortons career...
This is the way i see it, it's only my opinion... "Great heavyweights... don't lose to great light-heavyweights... If Holmes was that good, he should've run over Spinx...

[IamInuit]

*C'mon... i can mention 10 guys in the last 20 years that would beat Holmes... so NO... not even close.

*well..if i say it,i better be able to name them... let's see.
Ike Ibeabuchi: He could get to Larry and he might also get beat senseless and just because he might get to Larry does not equate to Holmes not being great.
Bowe: Good one but I still give the edge to Larry because of Bowes shaky brain pan. And btw if Bowe could hold it together he's be a test for anyone in history.
Holyfeild:He beat a worn out Holmes. Larry had already been in the game for 20 years. I think a prime Holmes cruises to a ud.
Byrd: Larry knocks him cold.
Tyson: Even split when Larry was in his prime
Vitali Klitsko: No matter how good he looked with a Lewis who chose to stand in front of him, Holmes would tear him apart
Wlad Klitsko: The present Wlad would be a tough go but the one prior to Steward gets starched.
Lennox:Beats Holmes imo and on any given night motivated could probably beat anyone in history.
Tua: Looks a lot like the Shavers fight but Tua's chin holds out for the final bell
I'm stuck on 9... David Haye: Less of a chance then Tyson but a better chance then Byrd.

Holmes had a nice jab, but really... what else. He had a super-fight with Cooney... that's a super-fight? That's the highlight of his career? He was taken to near death with Ken Norton at the end of Nortons career...
This is the way i see it, it's only my opinion... "Great heavyweights... don't lose to great light-heavyweights... If Holmes was that good, he should've run over Spinx...

I have got to hand it to you that’s not to bad a list however I don’t agree with many as I have commented in the quote.

As far as “great heavyweights don’t lose to great light heavyweights” goes that’s quite debatable. Spinks being able to do it to Larry does not necessarily mean that Holmes is not a great heavyweight. And btw he got jobbed in the first Spinks fight. I guess it all depends on ones definition of great. I consider Wills, Jeannette and McVey great heavyweights where a lot of people would not. Yet Langford knocked them all out at least once and he was in reality no where near even a light heavyweight. I mean if Louis was that good he should have run over Conn right?

Anyway good stuff

[bigstinkybug]

*i just wanted to point out that there have been a few very VERY tough heavyweights in the last 10 years...
I knew Cris Byrd would be really questioned...1st of all..He fought all comers in the heavyweight div... off the top of my head..both klitsko's, ike Ibeabuchi, purity,oquendo,Tua,..Mckline.holyfeild.LOL..that's a crazy list...
Cris Byrd is a heavyweight version of Micheal Spinx... i see Holmes no where near as dangerous as half the fighters he fought... Byrd would attack Holmes without fear and pitter patting himself to a UD everytime.

[IamInuit]

I just wanted to point out that there is no denying that Holmes was a great heavyweight. I'm not suggesting he's the GOAT.

[bigstinkybug]

I just think Holmes is ranked too high... We can speculate that Holmes coulbve beat anyone on my list... But in reality, who did he ever beat? A very old Norton... Lost terribly to Tyson..and lost to Spinx... How can anyone really make an argument that Holmes could beat anyone on my list when he couldnt beat Spinx?...twice.

[Master]

I just think Holmes is ranked too high... We can speculate that Holmes coulbve beat anyone on my list... But in reality, who did he ever beat? A very old Norton... Lost terribly to Tyson..and lost to Spinx... How can anyone really make an argument that Holmes could beat anyone on my list when he couldnt beat Spinx?...twice.

Chris Byrd? You crazy! Holmes was old when he fought Tyson and even the Spinks fight. You are being selective with your argument.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I never really liked Byrd as a heavyweight until I realised he was never really a heavyweight.

A very very brave man.

[bigstinkybug]

Cris bord beat some guys that i dont know if Holmes could beat... I know for sure he faced alot better opposition.

[greynotsoold]

A couple thoughts on this subject, three, actually...
1) Holmes was not the best HW of all time. That would be Joe Louis, and he'd beat Holmes most every time, though it would hardly ever be easy. I'm pretty sure that Marciano would beat him, too, because marciano played angles pretty well to open up his right hand and Larry got hit with right hands. All in all, he was pretty damn good.
2) Holmes got beat against Tyson because he got up on his toes and started dancing around and that is exactly the wrong way to fight Tyson, especially at that point in time. It let him get rolling, get his fast feet and very fast hands working without anything of value to worry about. Tyson was able to set down on a right hand and let Larry run into it because that on the toes jab flicking bullshit is just that, which leads to point 3.
3) The one "top" HW I'm certain that Holmes would beat every time, and really easily, is a prime Ali. He had a much better jab and he would stuff it down Ali's throat, and Ali had no other game to go to at that point in time. Holmes would out-jab him, start landing the right because Ali had no defense but reflexes and chin. Easy UD for Holmes.

[Mr140]

To be fair Byrd was underratted but some of his big wins were against a guy who lost every round to then he throw his shoulder out. Then the other was Holyfeild who was 41 years of age had hep b and hart complications as well as being pretty shop worn. I don't really know how to rate that era it was kinda of a time were division didn't quite have a champ yet they were pretty spread out. I can see your point though I think people favor the past over the present regardless its just a part of boxing really.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

I never really liked Byrd as a heavyweight until I realised he was never really a heavyweight.

A very very brave man.

So i am assume you don't rate 185lb marciano, 205lb frazier and 195lb patterson as HW's too? Chris byrd at 210/15lbs (his average weight) is not a HW?? Prime foreman only weighed 3 lbs more....idiotic statement.

The ignorance on the subject of Chris Byrd and the idea that he is a "blown up middleweight" simply amazes me.

Chris Byrd turned pro in January '93 at a weight of about 169 pounds. By his third fight Byrd was fighting at above 205 pounds. In only his ninth fight and his seventh at heavyweight, Byrd defeated 6'6 Mike Rouse for the Vacant USBA Heavyweight Title. Chris Byrd has fought 47 times in his professional career, 44 of those fights have been at heavyweight. Byrd has weighed well over 205 pounds for each of those fights, and if that doesn't make him a heavyweight, then I don't know what would. He weighed 215 for holy and tua....

I am sure that the Byrd watchers will say that Byrd fought at Middleweight as an amateur, but I have to say that many a heavyweight fought at the lower weights as an amateur. Professional ranks is a whole new story. Ali, Tony Tucker, Michael Moorer, Evander Holyfield, these are just a very few of the many heavyweight champions who fought at lower weights as amateurs. In Michael Moorers case he fought at Jr. Middleweight.

The pressure of making the 165 pound limit may have cost Byrd a gold medal, this is a subject that no one cares to talk about but the truth is Byrd's weight hovered around 180 when not training in early '92. These are Byrds own words. Again I point out if Byrd is a blown up middleweight then why in '92 was he struggling to make the 165 pound weight limit for the Olympic Games?

Who started the myth about Byrd being a blown up middleweight? I don't know. It could have been any number of writers or was it Byrd himself? Was the reason to gain a mental edge over other fighters? Was it to get the big fights? Only Byrd knows that. Byrd is a heavyweight version of Pernell Whitaker. Both at elusive, defensive and very hard to hit. These aspects of his game make him a very boring fighter to watch.

Chris Byrd makes all fighters look bad. Even in his first defeat against Ibeabuchi, Ike did not look like a killing machine. Byrds plan of making Ibeabuchi miss him with his back to the ropes and then countering was working. The fight was dead even going into the fifth. Judges scores after the fourth round were: 38-38, 39-37 for Ibeabuchi, and 39-37 for Byrd. A left hook-uppercut by Ibeabuchi that Byrd never saw coming ended the fight. Byrd has admitted that he learned a lesson from that fight, "Stay the hell off of the ropes".

Byrd has gained a lot of attention for his fights with the Klitschko brothers. I personally feel that this is the reason people like to reiterate the "Byrd Myth" (he is a blown up middleweight that is fighting giants). The truth is that Byrd is a heavyweight fighting bigger heavyweights.

He is far from the "Blown up middleweight Myth" that everyone likes to repeat. Chris Byrds own history will tell you that he has spent 95% of his career as a heavyweight.

Chis Byrd enjoys the idea of being a blown up middleweight, so much so that he repeats the Myth himself. I am sure that he knows the truth and I hope now many of you do as well.

In fact he was so desperate towards his career end that he tried cutting to 175lbs in way too short a time, looked desperately ill in doing so and performed horrendously.

[Violent Demise]

Doesn't matter if he was a blown up middleweight or not. He still fought like one. Byrd was an acquired taste of a fighter. You either liked him or you didn't. I never cared much for him. Found him boring and his stupid ass wife annoying. Seeing Byrd go on a crack diet and drop all the way down to 175 only to get his ass beat by a mediocre fighter was great.