If pac fought marquez after oscar...

[Beanflicker]

It's amazing what one bad loss can do to a career. Before Marquez 3, people were talking about Pac like he was the new and improved Henry Armstrong, and he was a top 5 guy of all time, ect.

Now he's a guy who was overrated and chose convenient catch weights to ambush his opponents (and I'm not even saying that's entirely untrue.)

[ElTerribleMorales]

It's amazing what one bad loss can do to a career. Before Marquez 3, people were talking about Pac like he was the new and improved Henry Armstrong, and he was a top 5 guy of all time, ect.

Now he's a guy who was overrated and chose convenient catch weights to ambush his opponents (and I'm not even saying that's entirely untrue.)

I've been one of the few who had said it all along, I would give him the credit he deserved but wouldn't gush over him like if he was some God, Pacquiao would nit pick his opponents and always seek some "advantage" rather taking on an opponent on even terms, he only decided to take on Marquez in the 3rd fight because Floyd had taken him apart but won by decision so he figured since JMM was older he could get the stoppage and was completely schooled in the process, had a bad showing against Bradley then decided to take on Marquez again but again he paid dearly for it

[IamInuit]

It's amazing what one bad loss can do to a career. Before Marquez 3, people were talking about Pac like he was the new and improved Henry Armstrong, and he was a top 5 guy of all time, ect.

Now he's a guy who was overrated and chose convenient catch weights to ambush his opponents (and I'm not even saying that's entirely untrue.)

I've been one of the few who had said it all along, I would give him the credit he deserved but wouldn't gush over him like if he was some God, Pacquiao would nit pick his opponents and always seek some "advantage" rather taking on an opponent on even terms, he only decided to take on Marquez in the 3rd fight because Floyd had taken him apart but won by decision so he figured since JMM was older he could get the stoppage and was completely schooled in the process, had a bad showing against Bradley then decided to take on Marquez again but again he paid dearly for it

Agreed. It was his fan boys that I had a problem with and not Manny. People saying he'd beat Robinson, Armstrong etc etc. It got to the point on a lot of forums when I thought people were actually devolving at least mentally. Arum had a slave contract and also knew full well that if Manny had issues with Marquez that Floyd would turn him into his personal rag doll. Like I said in that comparison thread, what he has done is really unprecedented but the way in which he went about it to me is tainted and I believe notations will be made in historical context and they should be. Starting with Oscar who had not made 147 in ten years, weighed 145 and then came to the fight only weighing 147. Making Cotto come down 2 pounds for his own title and then fighting the biggest welter in the division in Clottey w/o a catch. A great fighter no doubt but there are some critical skid marks imo. He's defaulted to the greatest Filipino boxer ever but I just don't agree. I still have him below Elorde and Villa.

[Beanflicker]

I've been one of the few who had said it all along, I would give him the credit he deserved but wouldn't gush over him like if he was some God, Pacquiao would nit pick his opponents and always seek some "advantage" rather taking on an opponent on even terms, he only decided to take on Marquez in the 3rd fight because Floyd had taken him apart but won by decision so he figured since JMM was older he could get the stoppage and was completely schooled in the process, had a bad showing against Bradley then decided to take on Marquez again but again he paid dearly for it

I've never been a fan of Pacquaio (thats only because he beat a lot of fighters I really liked) and I never bought him as the guy who would dethrone Floyd. I always thought it was lame that he made guys come down and meet him at a catch weight.

But that being said, what he accomplished over the last 7 years or so is nothing short of incredible. Pacquiao is a legend in the sport and has a solid argument for top 10 p4p of all time IMHO.

For him to come from 130 and a year or two later be steamrolling 140, 147, and 154lbers is just remarkable.

[Master]

If Pac fought JMM after he had beaten ODH then Pac Man would have been firm favourite to win. He was on a impressive roll and was probably at his peak of his powers. Manny would always have stylistic problems with JMM but would have got the victory because JMM did not look impressive at a welterweight when he fought Floyd at welterweight.

[Beanflicker]

Manny would always have stylistic problems with JMM but would have got the victory because JMM did not look impressive at a welterweight when he fought Floyd at welterweight.

I think JMM looked like shit against Floyd for stylistic/skill reasons, not because of the weight. Floyd didn't use his size advantage to beat JMM, he out-"little guyed" the little guy with speed and skill.

[AdamGB]

It's amazing what one bad loss can do to a career. Before Marquez 3, people were talking about Pac like he was the new and improved Henry Armstrong, and he was a top 5 guy of all time, ect.

Now he's a guy who was overrated and chose convenient catch weights to ambush his opponents (and I'm not even saying that's entirely untrue.)

Several people said the latter.

[CFH]

It's amazing what one bad loss can do to a career. Before Marquez 3, people were talking about Pac like he was the new and improved Henry Armstrong, and he was a top 5 guy of all time, ect.

Now he's a guy who was overrated and chose convenient catch weights to ambush his opponents (and I'm not even saying that's entirely untrue.)

Both can be true. Pacquiao is an great fighter who has accomplished some very impressive things. However, since the ODH fight the cards have pretty much always been stacked in his favour. That doesn't mean what he managed to do isn't great, but it is the reality of the situation.

He could get KO'd 5 times in a row at this point and would still be an atg in my mind.