Society

[killersheep]

You can justify means of state ordered assistance, you can call it immoral, you can vilify the rich for taking advantage of a system, you can vilify the poor for taking advantage of a system, you can vilify the system itself. At the end of the day none of it matters, there simply are not enough resources to sustain the standard of living we have learned to expect in modern life.

[Andre]

You can justify means of state ordered assistance, you can call it immoral, you can vilify the rich for taking advantage of a system, you can vilify the poor for taking advantage of a system, you can vilify the system itself. At the end of the day none of it matters, there simply are not enough resources to sustain the standard of living we have learned to expect in modern life.

Bang on, it may cause change for the better if we get real lucky or maybe compassionate.

[Dia bando]

You can justify means of state ordered assistance, you can call it immoral, you can vilify the rich for taking advantage of a system, you can vilify the poor for taking advantage of a system, you can vilify the system itself. At the end of the day none of it matters, there simply are not enough resources to sustain the standard of living we have learned to expect in modern life.

Yes I go with the point you made, but say I have 10 house's I can only live in one at a time, some
have so MUCH, were others have so little the gap is far to wide.
This is my take you have a Doctor, his earnings say hundred thousand £ a year, his cleaner that
keeps his surgery clean, say they earn £6000 per year.
The Doctor you would say saves lives etc, and is paid accordingly but why do we undervalue the cleaner there job is important.
In one Scandinavian country I can't recall which one, the gap is much less they value both people
have they got it right maybe.

[Andre]

You can justify means of state ordered assistance, you can call it immoral, you can vilify the rich for taking advantage of a system, you can vilify the poor for taking advantage of a system, you can vilify the system itself. At the end of the day none of it matters, there simply are not enough resources to sustain the standard of living we have learned to expect in modern life.

Yes I go with the point you made, but say I have 10 house's I can only live in one at a time, some
have so MUCH, were others have so little the gap is far to wide.
This is my take you have a Doctor, his earnings say hundred thousand £ a year, his cleaner that
keeps his surgery clean, say they earn £6000 per year.
The Doctor you would say saves lives etc, and is paid accordingly but why do we undervalue the cleaner there job is important.
In one Scandinavian country I can't recall which one, the gap is much less they value both people
have they got it right maybe.

In some cases like the doctors case here, it cost him a fortune in time and money to get where he got to,he also has to be on call and also had to do some really dirty work before becoming a Gp. He also has to pay rent on the building and public liability insurance as well as all the other insurances incl building and accident.

[Beanz]

You can justify means of state ordered assistance, you can call it immoral, you can vilify the rich for taking advantage of a system, you can vilify the poor for taking advantage of a system, you can vilify the system itself. At the end of the day none of it matters, there simply are not enough resources to sustain the standard of living we have learned to expect in modern life.

Yes I go with the point you made, but say I have 10 house's I can only live in one at a time, some
have so MUCH, were others have so little the gap is far to wide.
This is my take you have a Doctor, his earnings say hundred thousand £ a year, his cleaner that
keeps his surgery clean, say they earn £6000 per year.
The Doctor you would say saves lives etc, and is paid accordingly but why do we undervalue the cleaner there job is important.
In one Scandinavian country I can't recall which one, the gap is much less they value both people
have they got it right maybe.

In some cases like the doctors case here, it cost him a fortune in time and money to get where he got to,he also has to be on call and also had to do some really dirty work before becoming a Gp. He also has to pay rent on the building and public liability insurance as well as all the other insurances incl building and accident.

I know what you are saying but MEH a bit. My doctor is a nit and sometimes I feel I would be better sitting down and speaking to the cleaner for five minutes. There is also the fact that there are care workers like my daughter on the national minimum wage of £6 an hour who have to sit with those dieing in pain while some doctors can not even be bothered to write a morphine prescription. She then has to wash and prep the recently deceased as well as the dealing with peoples day to day bodily functions etc while a doctor sits in his office. UK doctors (General Practitioners) usually don't work out of hours any more that is another service.

Doctors may not be the best example but there comes a point where people lose touch with the everyday lives of the people who they are there to serve, those who pay their wages. When I worked in the Criminal Justice system this was very apparent with Barristers, (Junior and QC's) but particularly Judges who with no idea of the impossible conditions that legal case workers, Police, Court and administrative staff had to work under and would Lord it above all and sundry even outside of the courtroom.

[Andre]

You can justify means of state ordered assistance, you can call it immoral, you can vilify the rich for taking advantage of a system, you can vilify the poor for taking advantage of a system, you can vilify the system itself. At the end of the day none of it matters, there simply are not enough resources to sustain the standard of living we have learned to expect in modern life.

Yes I go with the point you made, but say I have 10 house's I can only live in one at a time, some
have so MUCH, were others have so little the gap is far to wide.
This is my take you have a Doctor, his earnings say hundred thousand £ a year, his cleaner that
keeps his surgery clean, say they earn £6000 per year.
The Doctor you would say saves lives etc, and is paid accordingly but why do we undervalue the cleaner there job is important.
In one Scandinavian country I can't recall which one, the gap is much less they value both people
have they got it right maybe.

In some cases like the doctors case here, it cost him a fortune in time and money to get where he got to,he also has to be on call and also had to do some really dirty work before becoming a Gp. He also has to pay rent on the building and public liability insurance as well as all the other insurances incl building and accident.

I know what you are saying but MEH a bit. My doctor is a nit and sometimes I feel I would be better sitting down and speaking to the cleaner for five minutes. There is also the fact that there are care workers like my daughter on the national minimum wage of £6 an hour who have to sit with those dieing in pain while some doctors can not even be bothered to write a morphine prescription. She then has to wash and prep the recently deceased as well as the dealing with peoples day to day bodily functions etc while a doctor sits in his office. UK doctors (General Practitioners) usually don't work out of hours any more that is another service.

Doctors may not be the best example but there comes a point where people lose touch with the everyday lives of the people who they are there to serve, those who pay their wages. When I worked in the Criminal Justice system this was very apparent with Barristers, (Junior and QC's) but particularly Judges who with no idea of the impossible conditions that legal case workers, Police, Court and administrative staff had to work under and would Lord it above all and sundry even outside of the courtroom.

Yep needs to be a graded system,the cleaner and doctor need to be apart and your doctor and your daughter closer. Should close the loop holes in corporate tax and redistribute fairly too.

And Law sucks, if I rob someone of a few grand on the street say at a auto teller just take their money, run, get caught, Im doing a lot of time.

Someone in a suit within a company can have a 'gambling addiction' and do the company out of hundreds of thousands and is smacked on the wrist put into rehab and made to do community service for a few years.

Jail is also a means to a type of slave labor too. There needs to be a balance so that active prisoners who have a work ethic get more and savings put aside can get released with them so they are set up and managed by someone once outside.

[VictorCharlie]

Wages aren't some arbitrary amount. Doctors get paid well b/c they go to school for 8-10 years to obtain a marketable and technical skill and then spend another 2-5 being worked to the bone as a resident. Sure it would be great if more unskilled jobs paid better but these things don't happen in a vacuum. I have no idea what a fair market wage is for a cleaner but I know what I'm willing to pay for my dry cleaning. Increasing the wages for unskilled labor results in higher costs of living for all of us. So basically you could raise the cleaners wage but then both you and him's income won't go as far as it used to.

It circles me back to if you are planning on a career in a blue collar job and/or depending on a govt pension you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

I view income tax as theft so I applaud anyone that attempts to circumvent giving up a portion of their income simply b/c they breath.

[brocktonblockbust]

money is fuck all. go and get some berries. some roots like sarsaparilla. soon money will be worthless in the sense that it will be as valuable as paper. tinder for fire. then what? nobody knows how to make a fire or plant a tree or fish or get honey. Homo sapiens will become homo extinctus.

[Beanz]

Wages aren't some arbitrary amount. Doctors get paid well b/c they go to school for 8-10 years to obtain a marketable and technical skill and then spend another 2-5 being worked to the bone as a resident. Sure it would be great if more unskilled jobs paid better but these things don't happen in a vacuum. I have no idea what a fair market wage is for a cleaner but I know what I'm willing to pay for my dry cleaning. Increasing the wages for unskilled labor results in higher costs of living for all of us. So basically you could raise the cleaners wage but then both you and him's income won't go as far as it used to.

It circles me back to if you are planning on a career in a blue collar job and/or depending on a govt pension you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

I view income tax as theft so I applaud anyone that attempts to circumvent giving up a portion of their income simply b/c they breath.

There is nothing unskilled about being a carer and yet they are often only paid the national minimum wage to play an important role in society. There are many underpaid but essential roles carried out by people that enable society to function and the gap between blue and white collar skill sets is constantly changing. There are plenty of skilled labour jobs that require much more dedication, concentration and problem solving skills than those employed by administrative white collar data entry clerks. Most people in this country do not share your view of income tax being theft and would be better served by a less top heavy pyramid where government service pay grades are concerned.