Tavoris Cloud vs. Bernard Hopkins - Saturday night chat/fight thread

[bigstinkybug]

Hopkins has to be acknowledged as a top 5 p4p of all time.

top 5...! all time...! cuz he beat Tarvaris cloud? lol...

[DavilaJones]

Hopkins has to be acknowledged as a top 5 p4p of all time.

top 5...! all time...! cuz he beat Tarvaris cloud? lol...

How about the longest middleweight regin in history in addition to being the oldest champ twice.

[bigstinkybug]

Hopkins has to be acknowledged as a top 5 p4p of all time.

top 5...! all time...! cuz he beat Tarvaris cloud? lol...

How about the longest middleweight regin in history in addition to being the oldest champ twice.

*it's a nice win at his age... that's it. ATG, sure... but let's not get ridiculous.
Hop beat alot of ok fighters at middleweight.. nothing special... he fought DeLaHoya and Trinidad ,who at best, are welterweights... when faced with a true middleweight in Jermain Taylor, he lost twice...
u'd have more of a argument if he had beat Calzaghi... Dawson... but even then,#5! ... u meant #25.



p.s... Hopkins is probably top #5 dirtiest fighters in history...ALL TIME.

[IamInuit]

Hopkins has to be acknowledged as a top 5 p4p of all time.

top 5...! all time...! cuz he beat Tarvaris cloud? lol...

Fought Roy Jones to start his real march on the middleweight division in 93 getting close to age 30 and won more rounds off him then anyone did before or after while in his prime.

He then wins the IBF tin in 1995 at age 30.

He goes on to defend his title 7 times in two years and then 5 more times prior to the beginning of the King sponsored middleweight tourney.

At age 35 he enters the tourney, cleans Keith Holmes clock and unifies with the WBC in the process.

Next while nearing 36 he takes on a guy (Tito) that it is said he has no chance against and completely shuts him down further unifying grabbing the WBA strap.

He defends his titles 4 more times and then at age 40 he unifies once again against Oscar and becomes the first unified/undisputed middleweight champion since Hagler. Sure it should have been Sturm but he stopped Oscar who was never stopped.

At age 41 he then defends his undisputed mid crown against Hbo’s poster child in Taylor back to back in 5 months and getting the short end of the stick in both. I have always thought that if Taylor did enough in the second fight then Bernard did enough in the first to retain.

At this point, it’s already a hall of fame career on the first ballet.

But no not for this competitor.

At 42, he jumps up two divisions and destroys the man who beat the man and makes it look rather pedestrian in the process.

Fights an ugly fight with Winky at 43 and then goes 12 with Calzaghe at 44 losing an sd regardless of how we individuals scored it.

Next he drops down in weight and fights the new middleweight destroyer of worlds in Pavlik and goes about to put on one of the best boxing clinics that I have ever seen.

He has a couple of meaningless fights at 45 and 46 thereabouts and then fights Pascal twice in 6 months scoring a draw and a win.

He loses to Dawson fighting him twice in 6 months at age 47 and then at 48 goes on to embarrass Cloud.

Given his age etc etc can you think of another save Moore that has even came close to these achievements? I don’t do p4p lists but for beanflicker to list him on his top 5 is not some giant leap of faith. Its both valid and relevant.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Hopkins is a great fighter - maybe even a living legend (he's old enough), but top 5 talk is crazy. I mean, you can give him a glowing report but the same can be done for dozens of other fighters.

[IamInuit]

Hopkins is a great fighter - maybe even a living legend (he's old enough), but top 5 talk is crazy. I mean, you can give him a glowing report but the same can be done for dozens of other fighters.

What he has done is unprecedented as well as the manner in which he accomplished it. Love him or hate him, dirty/tricky fighter or not. Personally I cant stand him but I certainly respect him for what he has accomplished. Historians of all walks of life will be taking a serious look at their atg top 10 lists if they are objective in the least.

[bigstinkybug]

*I respect him... BUT becuz he's still fighting and beating b level fighters doesn't give him a top 10... Hop lost to every major fighter he fought that wasn't smaller than him... sure he beat DLH and Tito... at middle... lost to Cal, Jones, Dawson, Taylor twice... not very impressive if ur top 10
... personally, i think Marquez and Pac are more impressive in the all time great list... and Marquez is still fighting at the highest level.
...Mayweather..like him or not, he'll rank higher than Hop.
...Andre Ward will prob end up higher than Hop as well when it's all over.

all im saying is Hop is not a top 10...

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Hopkins is a great fighter - maybe even a living legend (he's old enough), but top 5 talk is crazy. I mean, you can give him a glowing report but the same can be done for dozens of other fighters.

What he has done is unprecedented as well as the manner in which he accomplished it. Love him or hate him, dirty/tricky fighter or not. Personally I cant stand him but I certainly respect him for what he has accomplished. Historians of all walks of life will be taking a serious look at their atg top 10 lists if they are objective in the least.

Fine but top 5? Really?!