Lets end the Mike Tyson debate

[bradlee180]

Morrison was on the steroids, but he was never gonna beat Lennox.
Vargas was on them, but De La Hoya showed the class difference.
Vinny Pazienza was never going to beat Roy Jones.
Sonnen was on them, but Anderson Silva showed why Anderson's one of the best in MMA.
Sean Sherk was never going to beat a guy like BJ Penn.

Accusations have been flying at Juan Manuel Marquez, but the man's a Great fighter and has been Pacquiao's Achilles' heel all along. Marquez had landed the right hand all along too, just not solidly. That last fight, he finally landed it perfectly and Paquiao ran into it.

The cream rises to the top even if the opponent uses drugs to try to gain an advantage.

[cambay411]

Morrison was on the steroids, but he was never gonna beat Lennox.
Vargas was on them, but De La Hoya showed the class difference.
Vinny Pazienza was never going to beat Roy Jones.
Sonnen was on them, but Anderson Silva showed why Anderson's one of the best in MMA.
Sean Sherk was never going to beat a guy like BJ Penn.

Accusations have been flying at Juan Manuel Marquez, but the man's a Great fighter and has been Pacquiao's Achilles' heel all along. Marquez had landed the right hand all along too, just not solidly. That last fight, he finally landed it perfectly and Paquiao ran into it.

The cream rises to the top even if the opponent uses drugs to try to gain an advantage.

No one said shit about JMM being on roids until he came out for the last Pac fight shredded. And what a coincidence, he finally got the ko.

[cambay411]

Morrison was on the steroids, but he was never gonna beat Lennox.
Vargas was on them, but De La Hoya showed the class difference.
Vinny Pazienza was never going to beat Roy Jones.
Sonnen was on them, but Anderson Silva showed why Anderson's one of the best in MMA.
Sean Sherk was never going to beat a guy like BJ Penn.

Accusations have been flying at Juan Manuel Marquez, but the man's a Great fighter and has been Pacquiao's Achilles' heel all along. Marquez had landed the right hand all along too, just not solidly. That last fight, he finally landed it perfectly and Paquiao ran into it.

The cream rises to the top even if the opponent uses drugs to try to gain an advantage.

Morrison wasn't a cream of the crop fighter like Lennox.
Vargas wasn't a cream of the crop fighter De La Hoya
Vinny Pazienza wasn't a cream of the crop fighter like Roy Jones.
Sonnen wasn't a cream of the crop fighter like Silva
Sean Sherk wasn't a cream of the crop fighter like BJ Penn.

Most of these guys wouldn't have made it to that level without roids.

So where does roids come into the picture when it comes to cream vs cream?

[Mr140]

It does not because most of the cream is on the shit anyway i mean if all these people been using for so long never been caught. How are we to know that they never use if they never got caught during a fight. All the people were most caught after words not during or before the fight so shit hard to say right.

[Boxer4life]

Morrison was on the steroids, but he was never gonna beat Lennox.
Vargas was on them, but De La Hoya showed the class difference.
Vinny Pazienza was never going to beat Roy Jones.
Sonnen was on them, but Anderson Silva showed why Anderson's one of the best in MMA.
Sean Sherk was never going to beat a guy like BJ Penn.

Accusations have been flying at Juan Manuel Marquez, but the man's a Great fighter and has been Pacquiao's Achilles' heel all along. Marquez had landed the right hand all along too, just not solidly. That last fight, he finally landed it perfectly and Paquiao ran into it.

The cream rises to the top even if the opponent uses drugs to try to gain an advantage.

the thing is without roids, marquez would not be able to knock him out, no matter how clean he landed his right hand

[El Kabong]

Morrison was on the steroids, but he was never gonna beat Lennox.
Vargas was on them, but De La Hoya showed the class difference.
Vinny Pazienza was never going to beat Roy Jones.
Sonnen was on them, but Anderson Silva showed why Anderson's one of the best in MMA.
Sean Sherk was never going to beat a guy like BJ Penn.

Accusations have been flying at Juan Manuel Marquez, but the man's a Great fighter and has been Pacquiao's Achilles' heel all along. Marquez had landed the right hand all along too, just not solidly. That last fight, he finally landed it perfectly and Paquiao ran into it.

The cream rises to the top even if the opponent uses drugs to try to gain an advantage.

the thing is without roids, marquez would not be able to knock him out, no matter how clean he landed his right hand

You left out Mariusz Wach who also tried to use a glove that had padding removed from it...but that's cool.

[IamInuit]

Morrison was on the steroids, but he was never gonna beat Lennox.
Vargas was on them, but De La Hoya showed the class difference.
Vinny Pazienza was never going to beat Roy Jones.
Sonnen was on them, but Anderson Silva showed why Anderson's one of the best in MMA.
Sean Sherk was never going to beat a guy like BJ Penn.

Accusations have been flying at Juan Manuel Marquez, but the man's a Great fighter and has been Pacquiao's Achilles' heel all along. Marquez had landed the right hand all along too, just not solidly. That last fight, he finally landed it perfectly and Paquiao ran into it.

The cream rises to the top even if the opponent uses drugs to try to gain an advantage.

the thing is without roids, marquez would not be able to knock him out, no matter how clean he landed his right hand

I do not agree. Marquez had three previous fights and tons of practise time to land that perfect right hand. You get that many chances at a guy that fights the exact same way every time out and is a sucker for the right hand counter or lead and it will come and it did.

[bradlee180]

I do not agree. Marquez had three previous fights and tons of practise time to land that perfect right hand. You get that many chances at a guy that fights the exact same way every time out and is a sucker for the right hand counter or lead and it will come and it did.

Yep. In previous fights, Marquez had hurt Pacquiao and even staggered him with the right cross counter, even at 125 lbs, but he wasn't landing it exactly right. After 42 rds, he finally landed it exactly right. And, Boxer4Life, bigger muscles don't make you a better puncher...

[erics44]

without a doubt tyson was the most exciting thing that has happened in boxing in my memory

i doubt i will ever experience that kind of thril again

i think a prime tyson would have beaten Ali, im not sure he would have beaten the bigger fighters/champions since his reign but its a different era now

[El Kabong]

without a doubt tyson was the most exciting thing that has happened in boxing in my memory

i doubt i will ever experience that kind of thril again

i think a prime tyson would have beaten Ali, im not sure he would have beaten the bigger fighters/champions since his reign but its a different era now

He did beat Frank Bruno twice....and we all know how you feel about him

[IamInuit]

Ftr I also do not believe that Marquez's new chiseled look means he was juicing. When a guy of his stature goes on a special diet and hits the weights and tones up, a couple of pounds looks much more pronounced then the same weight gained by bigger men.

In addition his weight gain from the third fight was minimal and in fact only a pound. He actually dropped 2 pounds prior to the 4th fight against Fedchenko. If the guy was juicing surly he would put more weight on then a pound.

[Boxer4life]

I do not agree. Marquez had three previous fights and tons of practise time to land that perfect right hand. You get that many chances at a guy that fights the exact same way every time out and is a sucker for the right hand counter or lead and it will come and it did.

Yep. In previous fights, Marquez had hurt Pacquiao and even staggered him with the right cross counter, even at 125 lbs, but he wasn't landing it exactly right. After 42 rds, he finally landed it exactly right. And, Boxer4Life, bigger muscles don't make you a better puncher...

bigger muscles dont, but PED's do

[cambay411]

Morrison was on the steroids, but he was never gonna beat Lennox.
Vargas was on them, but De La Hoya showed the class difference.
Vinny Pazienza was never going to beat Roy Jones.
Sonnen was on them, but Anderson Silva showed why Anderson's one of the best in MMA.
Sean Sherk was never going to beat a guy like BJ Penn.

Accusations have been flying at Juan Manuel Marquez, but the man's a Great fighter and has been Pacquiao's Achilles' heel all along. Marquez had landed the right hand all along too, just not solidly. That last fight, he finally landed it perfectly and Paquiao ran into it.

The cream rises to the top even if the opponent uses drugs to try to gain an advantage.

the thing is without roids, marquez would not be able to knock him out, no matter how clean he landed his right hand

I do not agree. Marquez had three previous fights and tons of practise time to land that perfect right hand. You get that many chances at a guy that fights the exact same way every time out and is a sucker for the right hand counter or lead and it will come and it did.

Exactly, he had three previous fights in which he couldn't ko Pac. Then all the sudden he comes out shredded and gets the ko. Looks devious imo.

Who knows maybe JMM wasn't even on roids but one cant say that doesn't seem iffy.

Most of the reason you guys are giving me that steroids doesn't matter just proves that they do matter in my eyes. I don't know we must be on two different wave lengths.

[p4pking]

Morrison was on the steroids, but he was never gonna beat Lennox.
Vargas was on them, but De La Hoya showed the class difference.
Vinny Pazienza was never going to beat Roy Jones.
Sonnen was on them, but Anderson Silva showed why Anderson's one of the best in MMA.
Sean Sherk was never going to beat a guy like BJ Penn.

Accusations have been flying at Juan Manuel Marquez, but the man's a Great fighter and has been Pacquiao's Achilles' heel all along. Marquez had landed the right hand all along too, just not solidly. That last fight, he finally landed it perfectly and Paquiao ran into it.

The cream rises to the top even if the opponent uses drugs to try to gain an advantage.

the thing is without roids, marquez would not be able to knock him out, no matter how clean he landed his right hand

I do not agree. Marquez had three previous fights and tons of practise time to land that perfect right hand. You get that many chances at a guy that fights the exact same way every time out and is a sucker for the right hand counter or lead and it will come and it did.

Exactly, he had three previous fights in which he couldn't ko Pac. Then all the sudden he comes out shredded and gets the ko. Looks devious imo.

Who knows maybe JMM wasn't even on roids but one cant say that doesn't seem iffy.

Most of the reason you guys are giving me that steroids doesn't matter just proves that they do matter in my eyes. I don't know we must be on two different wave lengths.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Marquez(or most anyone) is/was on roids, but to attribute the Pac KO to that alone is nuts man. PAcquiao got reckless with seconds left in the round having had JMM hurt himself, and JUMPED into the punch. You never ever see that in top fights, his feet were both off the ground when it landed! I'm not sure my mother wouldn't knock some guys out if they tried that. Otherwise it's exactly the same kind of counter Marquez hit him with plenty throughout the first 3 fights. If those two could fight in exactly that same form 50 times, that would have only happened the one time. Nothing iffy about the KO whatsoever.