Lets end the Mike Tyson debate

[Master]

After knocking Bowe down he could not even raise his arms up to stop Bowe. Holyfield looked crap against Moorer the first time and should never have lost to the imbecile (that eventually got KOed by an overweight heavyweight which started the demise of the division). As good as Holyfield was, he was too inconsistent to be classed as a great.

BTW Tyson never took PED he did take the recreational type of drugs though.

[Mr140]

Master then Tyson can't be great because he never came back at all he never avenged a lose. I mean he just mental would give up not to many great fighters do that. I mean his last fight he just sat on the ground looking at the ref to count to ten. I mean Holyfeild was inconsistent at times but he had great come backs and way better wins if he fought in a weak era might of been different. Point being he showed hart never gave up and captured the title as much as Ali did was the only one to do it. Not to mention he started out at lhw and was already a unified cw before coming a unified hw he is great.

[Master]

Master then Tyson can't be great because he never came back at all he never avenged a lose. I mean he just mental would give up not to many great fighters do that. I mean his last fight he just sat on the ground looking at the ref to count to ten. I mean Holyfeild was inconsistent at times but he had great come backs and way better wins if he fought in a weak era might of been different. Point being he showed hart never gave up and captured the title as much as Ali did was the only one to do it. Not to mention he started out at lhw and was already a unified cw before coming a unified hw he is great.

I do not think losing to Moorer, being nearly knocked out by Cooper makes him a heavyweight great. He was strong but dumb.

I also thought we can all agreed that he was on drugs to do what he did.

[Mr140]

Master there is no way i can not put Holyfeild in the top ten hw he has a better resume then most of them in there. Moorer was better fighter then most of the shit Tyson fought in the 80's and you know what Holyfeild did after the lose he knocked him the fuck out in a rematch. You know what Tyson did when he lost bit a ear off in the rematch or not have one. Tyson career was during the weakest era since Rocky dude it was bad. I know your fan and mad Holyfeild kicked your boys ass and all but come on saying Holyfeild was not a great fighter makes me think your dumb.

[ICB]

Master then Tyson can't be great because he never came back at all he never avenged a lose. I mean he just mental would give up not to many great fighters do that. I mean his last fight he just sat on the ground looking at the ref to count to ten. I mean Holyfeild was inconsistent at times but he had great come backs and way better wins if he fought in a weak era might of been different. Point being he showed hart never gave up and captured the title as much as Ali did was the only one to do it. Not to mention he started out at lhw and was already a unified cw before coming a unified hw he is great.

I do not think losing to Moorer, being nearly knocked out by Cooper makes him a heavyweight great. He was strong but dumb.

I also thought we can all agreed that he was on drugs to do what he did.

I don't agree that struggling against a lesser fighter doesn't make you great, look at Joe Louis he was floored and in trouble against Tony Galento, i don't see anyone question Joe Louis not being great.

I know Holyfield isn't on that level, but i think his exciting fights, courage, moving up from Cruiserweight to become Heavyweight champion, does make him great.

[Master]

A great fighter but not a great heavyweight champion.

Tyson would have koed Moored in a round.

[Spicoli]

Woulda-coulda etc. ironically that's exactly what The Ring predicted he would do to Evander Holyfield when the met

[Spicoli]

After knocking Bowe down he could not even raise his arms up to stop Bowe. Holyfield looked crap against Moorer the first time and should never have lost to the imbecile (that eventually got KOed by an overweight heavyweight which started the demise of the division). As good as Holyfield was, he was too inconsistent to be classed as a great.

BTW Tyson never took PED he did take the recreational type of drugs though.

Respectfully my brother, but you are just tripping balls with that . He was within a punch of ko'ing Bowe and gassed out and spent running into a brick. Come on, it is the heavyweight division. That shit has happened to the best of them, nearly all of them?! Fact he came back in career speaks to his greatness! Moorer could flat box and that was probably his best most complete bout. A fast handed converted southpaw with a sharp power jab. Regardless of his eventual short comings at that time he put on a very good show...and still escaped with win via bogus 2nd round score after being floored. I don't call it inconsistent when you fight the very best completion, repeatedly, of your era and run into couple of bumps.

[cambay411]

After knocking Bowe down he could not even raise his arms up to stop Bowe. Holyfield looked crap against Moorer the first time and should never have lost to the imbecile (that eventually got KOed by an overweight heavyweight which started the demise of the division). As good as Holyfield was, he was too inconsistent to be classed as a great.

BTW Tyson never took PED he did take the recreational type of drugs though.

Most of Holyfields losses came after his prime. Hes definately an ATG tho his legacy is tarnished from PED's. He was probably off PED's for the fights you mentioned to be quite honest.

[Beanflicker]

BTW Tyson never took PED

How do we know that?

[El Kabong]

OK so if the steroid debate is going to be opened up we might as well ask "Did Lennox Lewis use PEDs?" We do know for certain Tommy Morrison did and odds are Holyfield did, but what of other fighters in that era?

[IamInuit]

If all else fails bring up peds.

[El Kabong]

If all else fails bring up peds.

If someone is going to open that can of worms for Tyson then they should ask the same questions of Tyson's peers.

[IamInuit]

If all else fails bring up peds.

If someone is going to open that can of worms for Tyson then they should ask the same questions of Tyson's peers.

Exactly. I always assume everyone is using. That way it stays out of the discussion instead of being used selectively.

[Beanflicker]

Exactly. I always assume everyone is using. That way it stays out of the discussion instead of being used selectively.

Realistic way to look at it!

And PED's don't make a champion fighter. Holyfield got where he was to on the basis of his skill and heart. Steroids help for sure, but they can't tell you which punch to throw, which way to move, what strategy to use and make you able to take a punch.

Holyfield fuckin ruled!