Lets end the Mike Tyson debate

[IamInuit]

If all else fails bring up peds.

[El Kabong]

If all else fails bring up peds.

If someone is going to open that can of worms for Tyson then they should ask the same questions of Tyson's peers.

[IamInuit]

If all else fails bring up peds.

If someone is going to open that can of worms for Tyson then they should ask the same questions of Tyson's peers.

Exactly. I always assume everyone is using. That way it stays out of the discussion instead of being used selectively.

[Beanflicker]

Exactly. I always assume everyone is using. That way it stays out of the discussion instead of being used selectively.

Realistic way to look at it!

And PED's don't make a champion fighter. Holyfield got where he was to on the basis of his skill and heart. Steroids help for sure, but they can't tell you which punch to throw, which way to move, what strategy to use and make you able to take a punch.

Holyfield fuckin ruled!

[El Kabong]

James Toney used roids as a heavyweight and he looked like crap

[erics44]

ok then, you lot have sussed it, its not worth taking peds and on the evidence of james toney they dont enhance your performance they make it worse

yeah hollyfield moved up the weights and stayed champ on skill alone, he took roids but they never helped

[Beanflicker]

yeah hollyfield moved up the weights and stayed champ on skill alone, he took roids but they never helped

Hahah I'm not saying PEDs don't help, if they didn't help no one would take them!

But it takes a lot more than that to make a champ and they don't help as much as people think... I've seen no evidence that they really improve a punch all that well either!

Watch Stefan Bonnar vs Anderson Silva from the UFC... Bonnar was roided to the gills and Silva was (as far as we know) clean. Silva ragdolled Bonnar and at one point let him have free punches on him that he laughed off. So this notion that steroids turn an average fighter into a killer is crazy IMHO!

And there's no real way to know that the other big names of the time weren't taking it, so it's kinda unfair and unrealistic to single Holyfield out as the only roider.

[Spicoli]

James Toney used roids as a heavyweight and he looked like crap

Botha and Tarver too. Then you have a Vargas for example who looked like a mini Mr. Universe. I mean shit, Mike Ayala fought while on heroin?! I'm not sure what the understood definition of PED is anymore.

[Master]

James Toney used roids as a heavyweight and he looked like crap

Botha and Tarver too. Then you have a Vargas for example who looked like a mini Mr. Universe. I mean shit, Mike Ayala fought while on heroin?! I'm not sure what the understood definition of PED is anymore.

heroin would not be PED would it?

[cambay411]

Exactly. I always assume everyone is using. That way it stays out of the discussion instead of being used selectively.

Realistic way to look at it!

And PED's don't make a champion fighter. Holyfield got where he was to on the basis of his skill and heart. Steroids help for sure, but they can't tell you which punch to throw, which way to move, what strategy to use and make you able to take a punch.

Holyfield fuckin ruled!

But PED's give a champion fighter an edge over a champion fighter who doesnt use them.