The Economic Crisis (The Fall of America & the Western World)

[Kirkland Laing]

becasue the dollar will collapse. and the stocks are valued in a currency that will collapse. Gold going up to 1500-2000 is a clear sign that the dollar is no longer trusted. stock market will collapse 40% by January 2014.

this 14000 shit is artificial. there is no welath being created. stiock prices are higher now because of implied inflation. you cannot print 26 trillion dollars out of thin air without devaluing the currecny. this is common sense. it cannot work. this is a dead cat bounce to use a gay economic cliche term but i cant htink of any thing better at the speed i am typing. dead cat bounce. like juicing a corpse with a thousand volts yes his heart will beat a little more but he is still dead.

no wealth creation. all consumerism-driven. more free money, more purchases on credit, etc


the treasury and the fed are working together to imitate a new country buying us bonds. its a shell game. its an illusion. no wealth is being created. its artificial. theire is no productivity. its bullshit. devalued dollars mean you need more dollars to do the same shit. stock prices are higher because each dollar is worth less.

So all this is predicated on the dollar collapsing. What makes you think the dollar is going to collapse?

And how come the Fed tripled the amount of dollars in existence overnight back in 2008 and the value of the dollar went up? How come it hasn't collapsed in the last five years?

Also, too, your last post. I didn't have the time to deal with all the wrong/crazy in it. There was so much nonsense in the post it approached the level of a Lyle post. But as for the US being unable to afford interest payments on the debt, here is the projected spend according to the CBO:




(Got this from google images but this is a CBO projection) So by the end of the decade America will be paying the same amount of money in real terms as it was back when it had a balanced budget and the economy was booming. So why do you think America isn't going to be able to pay the interest? The dollar is going to collapse, right?

[Kirkland Laing]

So why is the dollar going to collapse then?

[brocktonblockbust]

becasue the dollar will collapse. and the stocks are valued in a currency that will collapse. Gold going up to 1500-2000 is a clear sign that the dollar is no longer trusted. stock market will collapse 40% by January 2014.

this 14000 shit is artificial. there is no welath being created. stiock prices are higher now because of implied inflation. you cannot print 26 trillion dollars out of thin air without devaluing the currecny. this is common sense. it cannot work. this is a dead cat bounce to use a gay economic cliche term but i cant htink of any thing better at the speed i am typing. dead cat bounce. like juicing a corpse with a thousand volts yes his heart will beat a little more but he is still dead.

no wealth creation. all consumerism-driven. more free money, more purchases on credit, etc


the treasury and the fed are working together to imitate a new country buying us bonds. its a shell game. its an illusion. no wealth is being created. its artificial. theire is no productivity. its bullshit. devalued dollars mean you need more dollars to do the same shit. stock prices are higher because each dollar is worth less.

So all this is predicated on the dollar collapsing. What makes you think the dollar is going to collapse?

And how come the Fed tripled the amount of dollars in existence overnight back in 2008 and the value of the dollar went up? How come it hasn't collapsed in the last five years?

Also, too, your last post. I didn't have the time to deal with all the wrong/crazy in it. There was so much nonsense in the post it approached the level of a Lyle post. But as for the US being unable to afford interest payments on the debt, here is the projected spend according to the CBO:




(Got this from google images but this is a CBO projection) So by the end of the decade America will be paying the same amount of money in real terms as it was back when it had a balanced budget and the economy was booming. So why do you think America isn't going to be able to pay the interest? The dollar is going to collapse, right?

Hasnt collapsed cuz its beeing artificially propped-up by the Treasury buying up all the bonds that China no longer wants to buy. Thats what I meant by a shell-game. The Treasury has taken China's and Japan's places as bond-buyers and just putting on the govt's balance sheet all these bond sales which is a Shell Game, isnt it? Smoke and Mirrors. Anybody can see that.

[Kirkland Laing]

becasue the dollar will collapse. and the stocks are valued in a currency that will collapse. Gold going up to 1500-2000 is a clear sign that the dollar is no longer trusted. stock market will collapse 40% by January 2014.

this 14000 shit is artificial. there is no welath being created. stiock prices are higher now because of implied inflation. you cannot print 26 trillion dollars out of thin air without devaluing the currecny. this is common sense. it cannot work. this is a dead cat bounce to use a gay economic cliche term but i cant htink of any thing better at the speed i am typing. dead cat bounce. like juicing a corpse with a thousand volts yes his heart will beat a little more but he is still dead.

no wealth creation. all consumerism-driven. more free money, more purchases on credit, etc


the treasury and the fed are working together to imitate a new country buying us bonds. its a shell game. its an illusion. no wealth is being created. its artificial. theire is no productivity. its bullshit. devalued dollars mean you need more dollars to do the same shit. stock prices are higher because each dollar is worth less.

So all this is predicated on the dollar collapsing. What makes you think the dollar is going to collapse?

And how come the Fed tripled the amount of dollars in existence overnight back in 2008 and the value of the dollar went up? How come it hasn't collapsed in the last five years?

Also, too, your last post. I didn't have the time to deal with all the wrong/crazy in it. There was so much nonsense in the post it approached the level of a Lyle post. But as for the US being unable to afford interest payments on the debt, here is the projected spend according to the CBO:




(Got this from google images but this is a CBO projection) So by the end of the decade America will be paying the same amount of money in real terms as it was back when it had a balanced budget and the economy was booming. So why do you think America isn't going to be able to pay the interest? The dollar is going to collapse, right?

Hasnt collapsed cuz its beeing artificially propped-up by the Treasury buying up all the bonds that China no longer wants to buy. Thats what I meant by a shell-game. The Treasury has taken China's and Japan's places as bond-buyers and just putting on the govt's balance sheet all these bond sales which is a Shell Game, isnt it? Smoke and Mirrors. Anybody can see that.

The Treasury isn't buying any bonds. It issues bonds. It's the Fed that's buying bonds. They're about to start tapering off their bond-buying programme. But this is the third bond-buying programme the Fed has run since the 2008 meltdown. The first two times they stopped buying bonds and the Treasury had no problem selling their bonds at negative real rates of interest. That means investors were actually paying the Treasury to buy US bonds rather than expecting to earn any interest from them.

Most of the market for US bbonds since 2008 is now domestic -- the Treasury hasn't had to sell bonds to foreign countries in any great quantity since 2008 because there's been a massive domestic market. And China will always need to buy US bonds. Their government's policy is to boost exports and they do that by keeping their currency cheap against their biggest export market. And they keep their currency cheap by buying large numbers of US bonds. They've been letting their currency appreciate against the dollar over the last five years but at some point will have to start buying large quantities of US bonds again.

US bonds are the safest investment on the planet. In globally uncertain times like the present people are always going to want safety and over the last five years they've literally been loaning money to the US government at a loss. Even when interest rates do increase over the next few years (and they may not do so significantly) the government will easily be able to afford paying the interest and will still sell the bonds they're issuing. And the government has now ended the deficit problem so there's no upward pressure on rates from runaway government spending/deficit because the real deficit is now wiped out and the budget effectively balanced.

[brocktonblockbust]

US Bonds and any US dollar denominated instruments are the most RISKY investments on the planet. Why would anybody want to hold US dollars OR US bonds? The value of the dollar has been eroded terribly by all the money printing. Wait til interest rates which have been kept artificially low at zero for the past 5 years hit 3 or 4%-----kiss the US goodbye Lang. They cant even pay the interest on their national debt. And this is at 0% interest. Do you know what the payments will be if the rate goes up even to 3%?? I cant even imagine the carnage.

[Kirkland Laing]

US Bonds and any US dollar denominated instruments are the most RISKY investments on the planet. Why would anybody want to hold US dollars OR US bonds? The value of the dollar has been eroded terribly by all the money printing. Wait til interest rates which have been kept artificially low at zero for the past 5 years hit 3 or 4%-----kiss the US goodbye Lang. They cant even pay the interest on their national debt. And this is at 0% interest. Do you know what the payments will be if the rate goes up even to 3%?? I cant even imagine the carnage.

The Treasury just auctioned $$30 billion of seven year bonds yesterday. There was robust bidding and the Treasury could have sold eighty billion if they'd taken every penny on offer. And the price they sold them for? 1.93%. Assuming standard 2% inflation that means bond investors, the smartest investors on the planet*, people who read the paper and know the Fed is going to stop buying bonds, paid the US government 0.07% interest a year for seven year to look after their money for them.

Bond Prices Rise After Strong Debt Auction


The headline says that bond prices rise. And when bond prices rise, what happens to bond yields/interest rates, hmmm?

I already showed you a graph that shows how much the US would be paying if/when interest rates get back up to 5-7%. America would be paying the same percentage of GDP in interest as it was in the 1990s. And I already showed you the value of the dollar hasn't budged despite the Fed tripling the number of dollars in existence.


*Some of these guys spend longer every day studying the bond market and things that affect it than you do watching Alex Jones! A lot of them have spent twelve hours a day, six days a week, fifty weeks a year for decades studying the market. They're currently paying one and a half percent over inflation to lend money to the US for thirty years. If they're locking their and their investors' money away for thirty years for one and a half points over 2% annual inflation they can't be too worried about the imminent collapse of the dollar, can they?

[VictorCharlie]

Walk away Brock...walk away. I'll debate Kirk on a slew of topics but the man kind of knows his shit on macro economics...well except for that silly Keynsian garbage but we can't all be enlightened like Hayek

[Kirkland Laing]

Walk away Brock...walk away. I'll debate Kirk on a slew of topics but the man kind of knows his shit on macro economics...well except for that silly Keynsian garbage but we can't all be enlightened like Hayek

I invite you to compare Hayekian Europe with its record and rising unemployment rate (over 25% in some countries) and relatively Keynesian America. The last five years have been a complete vindication for Keynesian economics.

I'm not tied to any particular ideology. I have to be right, I can't afford the luxury of believing in one thing when events prove it's completely wrong. If it turned out that slashing government spending worked and turned recessionary economies around then I'd fully support slashing government spending. But the evidence shows how well it works all too clearly.

[brocktonblockbust]

US Bonds and any US dollar denominated instruments are the most RISKY investments on the planet. Why would anybody want to hold US dollars OR US bonds? The value of the dollar has been eroded terribly by all the money printing. Wait til interest rates which have been kept artificially low at zero for the past 5 years hit 3 or 4%-----kiss the US goodbye Lang. They cant even pay the interest on their national debt. And this is at 0% interest. Do you know what the payments will be if the rate goes up even to 3%?? I cant even imagine the carnage.

The Treasury just auctioned $$30 billion of seven year bonds yesterday. There was robust bidding and the Treasury could have sold eighty billion if they'd taken every penny on offer. And the price they sold them for? 1.93%. Assuming standard 2% inflation that means bond investors, the smartest investors on the planet*, people who read the paper and know the Fed is going to stop buying bonds, paid the US government 0.07% interest a year for seven year to look after their money for them.

Bond Prices Rise After Strong Debt Auction


The headline says that bond prices rise. And when bond prices rise, what happens to bond yields/interest rates, hmmm?

I already showed you a graph that shows how much the US would be paying if/when interest rates get back up to 5-7%. America would be paying the same percentage of GDP in interest as it was in the 1990s. And I already showed you the value of the dollar hasn't budged despite the Fed tripling the number of dollars in existence.


*Some of these guys spend longer every day studying the bond market and things that affect it than you do watching Alex Jones! A lot of them have spent twelve hours a day, six days a week, fifty weeks a year for decades studying the market. They're currently paying one and a half percent over inflation to lend money to the US for thirty years. If they're locking their and their investors' money away for thirty years for one and a half points over 2% annual inflation they can't be too worried about the imminent collapse of the dollar, can they?

only reason there is demand for bonds is because ::: hmmmmm??
“We know it has to happen. And when it does, we’ll get out.” Lang do you know who said that 2 weeks ago? Lang, if you are as knowledgable as you seem, you know that a bond sell-off has been anticipated for years, given the long run of popularity that corporate and government bonds have enjoyed. But most strategists expected that investors would slowly transfer out of bonds, allowing interest rates to slowly drift up.
Instead, Ben Shithead Bernanke recently suggested that the strength of the economic recovery might allow the Fed to slow down its bond-buying program, waves of selling have---could we say Kirkland---convulsed the markets. The value of outstanding United States government 10-year notes has fallen 10% since a high in early May. The selling--if you read it---hit a record $48 billion worth of shares in bond mutual funds so far in June, according to TrimTabs.(see this video, this guy is the husband of a girl I did my Masters with in 1990:
But hedge funds and other big institutional investors have also been closing out positions or stepping back from the bond market. “The feeling you are getting out there is that people are selling first and asking questions later,” said Hans Humes, chief executive of the hedge fund Greylock Capital Management.

[Kirkland Laing]

US Bonds and any US dollar denominated instruments are the most RISKY investments on the planet. Why would anybody want to hold US dollars OR US bonds? The value of the dollar has been eroded terribly by all the money printing. Wait til interest rates which have been kept artificially low at zero for the past 5 years hit 3 or 4%-----kiss the US goodbye Lang. They cant even pay the interest on their national debt. And this is at 0% interest. Do you know what the payments will be if the rate goes up even to 3%?? I cant even imagine the carnage.

The Treasury just auctioned $$30 billion of seven year bonds yesterday. There was robust bidding and the Treasury could have sold eighty billion if they'd taken every penny on offer. And the price they sold them for? 1.93%. Assuming standard 2% inflation that means bond investors, the smartest investors on the planet*, people who read the paper and know the Fed is going to stop buying bonds, paid the US government 0.07% interest a year for seven year to look after their money for them.

Bond Prices Rise After Strong Debt Auction


The headline says that bond prices rise. And when bond prices rise, what happens to bond yields/interest rates, hmmm?

I already showed you a graph that shows how much the US would be paying if/when interest rates get back up to 5-7%. America would be paying the same percentage of GDP in interest as it was in the 1990s. And I already showed you the value of the dollar hasn't budged despite the Fed tripling the number of dollars in existence.


*Some of these guys spend longer every day studying the bond market and things that affect it than you do watching Alex Jones! A lot of them have spent twelve hours a day, six days a week, fifty weeks a year for decades studying the market. They're currently paying one and a half percent over inflation to lend money to the US for thirty years. If they're locking their and their investors' money away for thirty years for one and a half points over 2% annual inflation they can't be too worried about the imminent collapse of the dollar, can they?

only reason there is demand for bonds is because ::: hmmmmm??
“We know it has to happen. And when it does, we’ll get out.” Lang do you know who said that 2 weeks ago? Lang, if you are as knowledgable as you seem, you know that a bond sell-off has been anticipated for years, given the long run of popularity that corporate and government bonds have enjoyed. But most strategists expected that investors would slowly transfer out of bonds, allowing interest rates to slowly drift up.
Instead, Ben Shithead Bernanke recently suggested that the strength of the economic recovery might allow the Fed to slow down its bond-buying program, waves of selling have---could we say Kirkland---convulsed the markets. The value of outstanding United States government 10-year notes has fallen 10% since a high in early May. The selling--if you read it---hit a record $48 billion worth of shares in bond mutual funds so far in June, according to TrimTabs.(see this video, this guy is the husband of a girl I did my Masters with in 1990:
But hedge funds and other big institutional investors have also been closing out positions or stepping back from the bond market. “The feeling you are getting out there is that people are selling first and asking questions later,” said Hans Humes, chief executive of the hedge fund Greylock Capital Management.

Yes, you'll find people out there predicting all sorts of things. As for who sadi that I have no idea. What you've got is a bunch of bits and pieces that you think mean something but actually don't mean anything at all.

If I wanted to write a scare article to get people panicking about the collapse of the bond market/financial system/whatever I'm sure I could do a much better job. The actual prices of bonds and the volume of trading of bonds, bond funds, bond derivatives and options has all been within normal ranges for years now. Just because what you think is a huge number was traded in a month doesn't mean anything, it's just somebody using normal numbers (that sound big!) to scare you.

Your first argument was the soaring price of gold which you said predicted the imminent collapse of the dollar. What's happening to the price of gold right now, hmmm?