Are you for or against intervening in Syria?

[Andre]

I can see how people in England and America are more free than people in SYria or people in Iraq under Saddam. Nobody is disputing that. I would of course anyday rather be in America than Syria or Iraq, nobody I hope is disputing that either. So I can see the logic, though well, well stretched to unidentifiable proportions, that "Its better to have the US/UK system of governance imposed over the whole world rather than the Assad or the Saddam systems."

But that is just pure logic, like a Darwinian anthem, that "we may as well bully our way around like a world policeman because we would rather that all the world is like the US/UK".

It has to be allowed to happen naturally, if it happens at ALL, as the 13 colonies of King George naturally and in due course took the decisions to resist tyranny by themselves when the time was right, or ripe.

Nobody intervened on behalf of the 13 colonies, they fought it out tooth and nail against the Red Coats and won. So the Syrian rebels must do the same thing.

The US/UK maniacs are jumping in all around the world intervening and nation building and it is wrong. And it causes blow-back. It it will continue to cause blow-back. And all the NSA Homeland Security Obama Drones of Destruction and NTSA gropings at airports and iris scans and RFID chips and CCTVs and satellite images WILL NOT STOP THE BLOW-BACK, as it is a natural reaction to a foreign force meddling in your business.

You miss my point. Apart from the fact the French. the Spanish and the Dutch helped provide money for munitions against the British ( who many Native Americans sided with Miles ) I am not, unlike the simplistic logic that Gandalf uses to make a political point, suggesting we support the rebels. Not closing our eyes when people use chemical weapons is not an excuse for attacking civilians. It is also no good pretending that it does not matter what people do as long as it is not in my garden. Just as an eye for an eye makes the world go blind all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to avert their eyes. It is very complicated and not helped by the fact that arch enemies like Lyle( @El Kabong ) and Kirkland ( @Kirkland Laing ), Miles ( @Gandalf )and nearly everyone else seems to think that inaction is the best option. Even somebody like @Andre who professes like Miles to not see anything special about the country that he is living or was born in, is not acting like a true Internationalist if a countries border is suddenly important as an excuse not to act when it is in the power of others to do so. It is not surprising when countries like China and Russia do nothing but when even moderate European countries like Germany and France do nothing to help those who are oppressed they are in dereliction of their positions as so called bastions of democracy. It is easy to look after your own looking out for those with which you have much less in common is much more commendable and takes true courage and love.

They need to find out the individuals and commanders responsible and try them in a court of law. If that is impossible than you send in the people who are capable to take them swiftly out. That should not be the job of Britain and America but the UN and the many other countries that make it up have repeatedly not stepped up to the mark. You can not always wait for natural justice to occur. How many Jews were needlessly exterminated by nations inaction? How many could have been saved in Rowanda? Cambodia? I don't have any great solution but I refuse to take the position of least resistance. I am not black but I have fought against racists and facists here and in Italy. I am not a miner, a nurse or a teacher but I have supported their cause. I don't have Cancer or have not suffered a stroke but I have raised awareness and money for those that do. Solidarity is not defined by national borders, class or racial divides and nor should compassion or a desire for justice.

I would normally be with you,but i honestly think if we go in again it will be an excuse for Muslim extremists to join the world over to pull off a few big strikes and start what we wont be able to stop for many years, the horror and billions that will suffer may not be worth it.

Like you say a hit squad in and out maybe the answer but you wouldnt want to wear colors it would have to be covert and if caught they die silent. But to walk on in and drop a flag and park no way,Im not for that.

I think every neighboring enemy we have ever made in that region and all the ones that now live in secret amongst us, will use it for an excuse for the next holy war. You know 'the demon is on holy ground' if you are for Allah and the prophet you must arm yourself and fight the devil in your homeland or here blah blah blah. You know you want it!

I also think if we do get involved and cant withdraw you may find Nth Korea and China sitting there like vultures ready for us all to weaken and move in on our homelands while we are all off fighting others fights.

I smell a big steaming nuked rat race in that exact arena one day.

[IamInuit]

Situational ethics.

I wonder, if it was China that did this or accused of doing so?

How about North Korea? A modern day killing fields. Probably responsible for more murders then Pol Pot.

[Gandalf]

Situational ethics.

I wonder, if it was China that did this or accused of doing so?

How about North Korea? A modern day killing fields. Probably responsible for more murders then Pol Pot.

The West postures when it wants to, but as far as I can see Egypt shot dead its own protestors with US funded military equipmentand we fail to acknowledge a coup, China shot hundreds dead in Tiannamen and we rewarded China with investment so that labour could be exploited and the exploiters got rich, in Syria we respond by saying there must be regime change. Judging by historical precedent Assad must be feeling very hard done by. I guess you either have to be a US puppet or at least allow their corporations to abuse you. Tut, tut Assad for being a little too independent.

We also forget the golden rules. Never get involved with a country that can defend itself to an expected degree and has no resources of its own. China owns the US fiscally and now has global trade and resources links, it is too powerful. Plus the trade ties with China are still working for the US corporatists. North Korea has no resources, but it has nukes and is equipped.

Morally North Korea is a great case in point, but we don't approach these things morally. We give lip service to morality, our big thing is power and control either in terms of strategic interest or obtaining resources.

[IamInuit]

Situational ethics.

I wonder, if it was China that did this or accused of doing so?

How about North Korea? A modern day killing fields. Probably responsible for more murders then Pol Pot.

The West postures when it wants to, but as far as I can see Egypt shot dead its own protestors with US funded military equipmentand we fail to acknowledge a coup, China shot hundreds dead in Tiannamen and we rewarded China with investment so that labour could be exploited and the exploiters got rich, in Syria we respond by saying there must be regime change. Judging by historical precedent Assad must be feeling very hard done by. I guess you either have to be a US puppet or at least allow their corporations to abuse you. Tut, tut Assad for being a little too independent.

We also forget the golden rules. Never get involved with a country that can defend itself to an expected degree and has no resources of its own. China owns the US fiscally and now has global trade and resources links, it is too powerful. Plus the trade ties with China are still working for the US corporatists. North Korea has no resources, but it has nukes and is equipped.

Morally North Korea is a great case in point, but we don't approach these things morally. We give lip service to morality, our big thing is power and control either in terms of strategic interest or obtaining resources.

This species has been sociopath in nature since we left the tree. Nothing has proven that out more then foreign policy. Actually its more then that, its downright schizophrenic. I blame it as the years go by for my growing indifference. Which in a way makes me a sociopath.

[Andre]

Situational ethics.

I wonder, if it was China that did this or accused of doing so?

How about North Korea? A modern day killing fields. Probably responsible for more murders then Pol Pot.

The West postures when it wants to, but as far as I can see Egypt shot dead its own protestors with US funded military equipmentand we fail to acknowledge a coup, China shot hundreds dead in Tiannamen and we rewarded China with investment so that labour could be exploited and the exploiters got rich, in Syria we respond by saying there must be regime change. Judging by historical precedent Assad must be feeling very hard done by. I guess you either have to be a US puppet or at least allow their corporations to abuse you. Tut, tut Assad for being a little too independent.

We also forget the golden rules. Never get involved with a country that can defend itself to an expected degree and has no resources of its own. China owns the US fiscally and now has global trade and resources links, it is too powerful. Plus the trade ties with China are still working for the US corporatists. North Korea has no resources, but it has nukes and is equipped.

Morally North Korea is a great case in point, but we don't approach these things morally. We give lip service to morality, our big thing is power and control either in terms of strategic interest or obtaining resources.

This species has been sociopath in nature since we left the tree. Nothing has proven that out more then foreign policy. Actually its more then that, its downright schizophrenic. I blame it as the years go by for my growing indifference. Which in a way makes me a sociopath.

Capital! Lets join forces and go up against the Republicans and Liberals with a new formed political party The Sociopaths. Im in.