Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
In saying that though, you are of a culture that provides a minimum wage of 7 dollars or so an hour and which has gutted its manufacturing sector. For many in the service sector you pay 2 dollars 15 an hour. Do you really think you owe nothing to those people working 40 hours a week in the lowest paid sectors of society? At the very least you owe a minimum living wage. You charity is irrelevant to that basic economic argument.

The person above is obviously an extreme case, and like I suggested, she should be physically capped. However, I don't think most take any great pleasure in living on welfare. Surely a progressive society should be encouraging some level of nomalcy in the balance.

I'm a poor person to be debating with as I am quite conservative on this issue. I grew up in a poor family and much of my life has been a rebellion against it. Clearly, I believe people should plan for their future and if child rearing is so important then you should choose that carefully as the world isn't at its best.
Do you know how many, what kinds, and who does jobs that are minimum wage?

Waiters/Waitresses might make $2 something an hour, but they are tipped and don't believe that they are taxed on 100% of those tips. In America we DID try to not having tipping, but it is here and it's good for what it's worth.

I owe nothing to nobody. Living Wage, who determines what that is miles? Did you know that Welfare pays MORE than minimum wage. Also if people are OWED then what am I owed miles? There are certainly people wealthier than me.

My charity is not irrelevant to those I help and to suggest that is....well it's just typical of a person who doesn't know what they are talking about.