Question on Early Tyson's Jab Mechanics

[SugarBoxing]

Why Tyson seems to step more to the side when jabbing, instead of throwing all the weight forward?







What exact muscle group did he use to drive the punch?

I feel he did not extend the left shoulder towards the target, rather just extend and twist the arm, snapping the punch

[greynotsoold]

I think he is going to the side anticipating the jab from the opponent, to avoid it. He also lunges with it, getting all his weight onto the left leg, leaving himself unable to do anything else. In all three examples, he is no position to be able to throw a right hand or to follow up in any way, not even in the two cases where he landed the jab.
Real sloppy technically, very shoddy footwork.

[greynotsoold]

Thinking about this...Have you seen that very early Tyson video, where he is working with Cus, and moving his head side to side and jabbing to Cus's palm? This is where you get screwed up with 'side-to-side' stuff in boxing...
In the videos posted, Tyson makes that move to the side and jabs, but he doesn't close distance and his feet aren't in a position to throw another punch. If you make that move correctly- you slip it by rolling towards the punch- that all changes.
You slide the left foot forward, roll your right shoulder like if you were throwing a right hand, and jab. You've closed distance, you are throwing a very stiff straight left hand (because your weight is going from the left foot back to the right), and you are in a position to throw a right hand, or to duck/bob/weave/etc... to avoid a possible counter.
Tyson left himself, in each clip, standing on one foot, all his weight in one place. If the opponent had punched back, he had to get hit. You can't do much with all your weight on your left leg.

[nikola_ganchev]

Isn't this the sparing in which he gets knocked down?

[SugarBoxing]

Tnx for everybody's effort

Of course, Tyson threw different jabs, so to make it clear, I am talking about this particular jab from pics above

I feel that
1) he begins thee punch from the hips, twisting a bit. This create tension in the upper body
2) Then he add torso twist by brining the right shoulder slightly backwards. This protrudes the left shoulder forward
3) Then he snaps at the torso and the shoulder, throwing the fist forward
4) Because the hip twist, he naturally moves more to the side, than forward. He Raises the moves to the side his front leg
5) He deliberately inclines the torso with the head to the left to get out of the line of the attack liek you mentioned
6) he lands the punch while landing the left feet and stopping the body motion to transfer the mass to the fist
7) Immediately weaves to the left, sometimes raising the right leg for balance

What do ya think?

[greynotsoold]

If you raise the right leg, you are standing on one foot and your balance is precarious. I think he should begin the move from his hips; I don't think that he does. I think he leans and then twist to compensate. look at how bad his feet are at the end of each clip.

[SugarBoxing]

look at how bad his feet are at the end of each clip.

After I studied Tyson for a while, I begin to see many technical "mistakes" in the sense that it all could have been done better, more perfect like Cus demanded. But I guess what worked was the huge element of surprise about his style in general, since most of the opponents simply did not know what to do with it at all

[greynotsoold]

look at how bad his feet are at the end of each clip.

After I studied Tyson for a while, I begin to see many technical "mistakes" in the sense that it all could have been done better, more perfect like Cus demanded. But I guess what worked was the huge element of surprise about his style in general, since most of the opponents simply did not know what to do with it at all

I always thought that he fought like a bantamweight, if that makes sense? As HWs get bigger, they lose mobility and agility, and he fought like a smaller fighter. Like Dempsey.
I don't know if those imperfections were short of what Cus demanded, or just a part of the style. Being squared up like that- on your feet- is a problem to begin with.

[Andre]

Well he never suffered from under commitment thats for sure. He even went for lead uppercuts,hook arms out the way before moving in square and would at times block stuff with his forehead so he could stay in tight.
He took some sloppy techniques and made them strengths through overcommitment.
Till he got caught out by someone not intimidated who could counter as hard as he gave then the wheels fell off.
It was a great time to see someone fight with such faith and abandonment though.
He would of scared the life out of me if you couldnt hurt him with a counter you were in big trouble within seconds.

[BCBUD]

look at how bad his feet are at the end of each clip.

After I studied Tyson for a while, I begin to see many technical "mistakes" in the sense that it all could have been done better, more perfect like Cus demanded. But I guess what worked was the huge element of surprise about his style in general, since most of the opponents simply did not know what to do with it at all

I always thought that he fought like a bantamweight, if that makes sense? As HWs get bigger, they lose mobility and agility, and he fought like a smaller fighter. Like Dempsey.
I don't know if those imperfections were short of what Cus demanded, or just a part of the style. Being squared up like that- on your feet- is a problem to begin with.

Wouldn't he have to square up being the smaller man?

[OMGWTF]

He thew 2 types of jab most of teh time, a hip powered jab with a push off, and a typical arm jab (typically following the hip one when he x2 up) he leant to the side to avoid the counter, just like you would slip and jab except its from his square on stance so its slightly different, the leaning to the side is not part of the mechanics of the jab he just slips often cause he has to get inside.

[Andre]

Maybe a touch of what you see is from him naturally being so imposing too,that slip to the inside: would also be for initial reach and to get face on to the oppositions center line which position he loved to bang from. Even though squared up a lot and over reaching at times not too many were aggressive enough to catch him out.He got away with a lot of stuff other fighters wouldnt. Hell, some of his opponents were mentally already in survival mode during the walk in.

[Scrap]

All movement is instigated from your hips, its your centre of gravity.