Does anyone think George Zimmerman is guilty of murder?

[El Kabong]

You see guns from 1 side Fenster and that's the problem. You see guns and automatically think bad guys have them because that's what young children in the UK are taught. Guns are bad because they are illegal and only bad people have them.

Well I hate to break it to you and the rest of the world but guns level the playing field when it comes to crime. If a criminal tries to rob a person who has a concealed carry then there's a few things that can/will happen but mainly it's either 1. The criminal sees the gun and runs away OR 2. The criminal is shot wounded/killed.

You don't like guns fine, England doesn't like guns fine....but don't you fucking DARE try and tell Americans how to live we'll do as we damn well please. Nothing has changed since 1776, we didn't want your noses in our business then and we don't care for them in our business now. And if you have a problem with that tough shit we have guns and we fucking LOVE them!

[Fenster]

I've already said if I lived where you do I'd probably be paranoid about guns too. I don't care whether you lunatics have guns or not. Someone pointing a gun at me is something i've never really had to think about, which seems like something to be thankful for when reading threads like this.

There are numerous possible conclusions to your robbery scenario. If "concealed carry" was such an effective deterrent then why is the criminal chancing his arm in the first place?

This very thread was about a possible "crime" that involved a gun. However, Zimmerman-Martin was a confrontation between two NON criminals. So how big a factor did the gun play in this?

Zimmerman - the man with the gun - got attacked. Now I assume Martin didn't know he had a gun, but regardless it didn't prevent the confrontation. Zimmerman was the one screaming for help getting his arse kicked. What if Martin had noticed the gun? What if he wrestled it off Zimmerman? Would Zimmerman have even tracked him in the first place without the gun?

The gun just made things worse.

[VictorCharlie]

The gun just made things worse.

Or possibly saved Zimmerman's life. Whether you think he deserved it or not is another story but he did have a young man on top of him bashing his head into the curb. Had the story been "Latino man beaten by black teen finally taken off life support due to no brain activity" it would have been equally or more tragic.

[El Kabong]

The gun just made things worse.

Or possibly saved Zimmerman's life. Whether you think he deserved it or not is another story but he did have a young man on top of him bashing his head into the curb. Had the story been "Latino man beaten by black teen finally taken off life support due to no brain activity" it would have been equally or more tragic.

Awww come on he was an innocent 3 year old child just out to get his skittles and iced tea

[Beanz]

The gun just made things worse.

Or possibly saved Zimmerman's life. Whether you think he deserved it or not is another story but he did have a young man on top of him bashing his head into the curb. Had the story been "Latino man beaten by black teen finally taken off life support due to no brain activity" it would have been equally or more tragic.

Awww come on he was an innocent 3 year old child just out to get his skittles and iced tea

You are acting like a 3 year old Lyle. We will never hear his side because he is dead.

[El Kabong]

You are acting like a 3 year old Lyle. We will never hear his side because he is dead.

We got to hear his side via the mildly retarded socially inept Rachael Jeantel who said that Trayvon physically confronted George Zimmerman because he thought George Zimmerman was a gay predator.

I'm sorry if I seem a little "irked" but when the media pulls shit like this...



I have EVERY right to be pissed off about it. You're an ocean away and you bellyache worse than Al Sharpton. If Trayvon wanted to live how about he doesn't decide to attack someone out of the fucking blue? How about Trayvon says "Hey, why are you following me?" Now had Trayvon done that and THEN Zimmerman shot him, yes Zimmerman would be 100% guilty and get the death penalty but no Trayvon ATTACKED Zimmerman, made Zimmerman fear for his life and Zimmerman shot to stop the attack. Don't fucking play pretend that anything different happened, that's the way it played out. Shit happens and yeah that situation sucked and both parties involved royally fucked up but Martin broke the law by physically assaulting Zimmerman and how was Zimmerman to know that Trayvon was just an average kid? Zimmerman just got punched in the fucking face by the guy and THEN had his head slammed into the concrete.....maybe you want to talk it out when someone is slamming your head into the concrete eh? Would you feel safe and secure when someone is trying to give you a concussion there Beanz?


But you judge my country away....judge away. Not like YOUR fucking Police didn't shoot a Brazilian for no fucking reason a few years ago.....but nah you judge us Beanz because you fucking know us soooo well.

[Fenster]

The gun just made things worse.

Or possibly saved Zimmerman's life. Whether you think he deserved it or not is another story but he did have a young man on top of him bashing his head into the curb. Had the story been "Latino man beaten by black teen finally taken off life support due to no brain activity" it would have been equally or more tragic.

Yes that's possible. Maybe Martin was going to beat him to death. However, listening to the tapes of Zimmerman crying for help when he was confronted also throws up the possibility that, if he wasn't carrying a gun in the first place he wouldn't have shown such bravado/confidence/arrogance in tracking Martin.

Therefore, the gun still causes a huge problem in this story. This whole tragic event only took place because a man had a gun. I assume Zimmerman felt great remorse for being forced to shoot someone dead.

[El Kabong]

The gun just made things worse.

Or possibly saved Zimmerman's life. Whether you think he deserved it or not is another story but he did have a young man on top of him bashing his head into the curb. Had the story been "Latino man beaten by black teen finally taken off life support due to no brain activity" it would have been equally or more tragic.

Yes that's possible. Maybe Martin was going to beat him to death. However, listening to the tapes of Zimmerman crying for help when he was confronted also throws up the possibility that, if he wasn't carrying a gun in the first place he wouldn't have shown such bravado/confidence/arrogance in tracking Martin.

Therefore, the gun still causes a huge problem in this story. This whole tragic event only took place because a man had a gun. I assume Zimmerman felt great remorse for being forced to shoot someone dead.

He was sucker punched and following someone doesn't require a gun or weapon at all.

[Fenster]

The gun just made things worse.

Or possibly saved Zimmerman's life. Whether you think he deserved it or not is another story but he did have a young man on top of him bashing his head into the curb. Had the story been "Latino man beaten by black teen finally taken off life support due to no brain activity" it would have been equally or more tragic.

Yes that's possible. Maybe Martin was going to beat him to death. However, listening to the tapes of Zimmerman crying for help when he was confronted also throws up the possibility that, if he wasn't carrying a gun in the first place he wouldn't have shown such bravado/confidence/arrogance in tracking Martin.

Therefore, the gun still causes a huge problem in this story. This whole tragic event only took place because a man had a gun. I assume Zimmerman felt great remorse for being forced to shoot someone dead.

He was sucker punched and following someone doesn't require a gun or weapon at all.

If having the gun isn't relevant why carry it?

[VictorCharlie]

The gun just made things worse.

Or possibly saved Zimmerman's life. Whether you think he deserved it or not is another story but he did have a young man on top of him bashing his head into the curb. Had the story been "Latino man beaten by black teen finally taken off life support due to no brain activity" it would have been equally or more tragic.

Yes that's possible. Maybe Martin was going to beat him to death. However, listening to the tapes of Zimmerman crying for help when he was confronted also throws up the possibility that, if he wasn't carrying a gun in the first place he wouldn't have shown such bravado/confidence/arrogance in tracking Martin.

Therefore, the gun still causes a huge problem in this story. This whole tragic event only took place because a man had a gun. I assume Zimmerman felt great remorse for being forced to shoot someone dead.

He was sucker punched and following someone doesn't require a gun or weapon at all.

If having the gun isn't relevant why carry it?

Why not?

[VictorCharlie]

The gun just made things worse.

Or possibly saved Zimmerman's life. Whether you think he deserved it or not is another story but he did have a young man on top of him bashing his head into the curb. Had the story been "Latino man beaten by black teen finally taken off life support due to no brain activity" it would have been equally or more tragic.

Yes that's possible. Maybe Martin was going to beat him to death. However, listening to the tapes of Zimmerman crying for help when he was confronted also throws up the possibility that, if he wasn't carrying a gun in the first place he wouldn't have shown such bravado/confidence/arrogance in tracking Martin.

Therefore, the gun still causes a huge problem in this story. This whole tragic event only took place because a man had a gun. I assume Zimmerman felt great remorse for being forced to shoot someone dead.

That is pretty presumptuous. Zimmerman doesn't strike me as someone that shows good judgement. I think he would have followed him armed or not.

Thankfully he didn't have a trident.
Man Throws Trident Spear Through Robber's Head | The Libertarian Republic

[Fenster]

The gun just made things worse.

Or possibly saved Zimmerman's life. Whether you think he deserved it or not is another story but he did have a young man on top of him bashing his head into the curb. Had the story been "Latino man beaten by black teen finally taken off life support due to no brain activity" it would have been equally or more tragic.

Yes that's possible. Maybe Martin was going to beat him to death. However, listening to the tapes of Zimmerman crying for help when he was confronted also throws up the possibility that, if he wasn't carrying a gun in the first place he wouldn't have shown such bravado/confidence/arrogance in tracking Martin.

Therefore, the gun still causes a huge problem in this story. This whole tragic event only took place because a man had a gun. I assume Zimmerman felt great remorse for being forced to shoot someone dead.

That is pretty presumptuous. Zimmerman doesn't strike me as someone that shows good judgement. I think he would have followed him armed or not.

Thankfully he didn't have a trident.
Man Throws Trident Spear Through Robber's Head | The Libertarian Republic

Maybe Martin wouldn't have beat him to death and we'd never even know about the incident.

[VictorCharlie]

Well since we know Martin was unaware of Zimmerman's firearm then we do know that Martin would have assaulted him regardless if there was a firearm present or not. I think maybe that is what Lyle meant by it wasn't relevant.

[Beanz]

Why all this bending over backwards to justify Zimmerman? If he was not armed it is highly unlikely he would gave shown such poor judgement. What kind of land of the free is it where people follow you around as though they are doing the community a service? If their are no witnesses to the initial confrontation why assume that Zimmermann was the victim? It's only because it suits peoples agenda that they assume Martin threw the first punch, that is a lot of presumption. If George pushed him, attempted to wrestle him or verbally threatened him the whole situation becomes far less cut and dry. Zimmerman was not threatened with a gun or faced with an intruder in his home and yet he is being portrayed as the poor wronged victim.

[VictorCharlie]

Why all this bending over backwards to justify Zimmerman? If he was not armed it is highly unlikely he would gave shown such poor judgement. What kind of land of the free is it where people follow you around as though they are doing the community a service? If their are no witnesses to the initial confrontation why assume that Zimmermann was the victim? It's only because it suits peoples agenda that they assume Martin threw the first punch, that is a lot of presumption. If George pushed him, attempted to wrestle him or verbally threatened him the whole situation becomes far less cut and dry. Zimmerman was not threatened with a gun or faced with an intruder in his home and yet he is being portrayed as the poor wronged victim.

I don't really understand the reasoning behind the first bolded part. I don't see how him following someone at night that fit the description of the person committing theft and vandalism in the neighborhood is predicated on him being armed. Hell I've confronted people in my neighborhood that I didn't recognize. Now I didn't do it Zimmerman style, I said "Howdy, I'm VC and live down the road are you new to neighborhood?" I caught a kid stealing my weedeater out of my garage and chased him down the street before tackling his ass. Not only was I not armed I didn't even have shoes on. I just don't buy the whole if he hadn't had a gun it never would have happened. As far as the rest of it, I'm not trying to make Zimmerman out to be someone to feel sorry for but per what the jury (arguably the people most familiar with the facts of the case) found to be true only Martin committed a crime by doubling back and assaulting Zimmerman. The jury didn't find any compelling evidence that Zimmerman acted aggressively so that is what I have to go off of.