Jose Sulaiman has died

[Kirkland Laing]

He was corrupt and a poor influence on the current state of affairs in the sport we love, but may he rest in peace.

He help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.

The amount he paid out to help sick boxers was a tiny percentage of his turnover. He took three or four percent of all their WBC title purses and every other boxer who fights for a WBC title. If you took that money and funnelled it through a nonprofit sanctioning body that spent it all on looking after retired boxers then they'd be able to hire ten or thirty times more boxers.

All these sanctioning bodies are just racketeering enterprises. They're all headquartered in Panama or the Dominican Republic where they don't have to produce publicly available audited company accounts. There's a reason for that.

Every organization takes out sanction fees. That's nothing new. Nor is it illegal. And while I feel retired boxers should get more help it's really not the organizations job to help them out. Retired boxers should be looked out by there promotors and managers. The muthafukkas who actually take a cut from a fighters purse

The WBC take a cut from fighters' purses. I agree that promoters and maybe even managers should pay something towards looking after retired fighters but the WBC makes a living renting $20 weightlifting belts to fighters with zero financial risk. They also take money from promoters to get their guys ranked and for eventual title shots. Sulaiman even used to go to fighters after they'd won and ask them for their trunks, gloves, even wraps which then used to end up on the memorabilia market. Throwing out a few dollars to buy themselves some cheap credibility by helping the occasional fighter doesn't change the nature of what they do.

Only if they fight for the WBC title. If not the WBC gets nothing. And it's just the sanction fees. It's not an actual cut from the fighters purse. People dislike the sanction fees. But what are they suppose to do? Let them fight for the title for free? That's unrealistic. The WBC is a ranking organization. But it's also a business. It needs to make money some how

Their sanctioning fees are three or four percent of each fighter's purse.

A private enterprise shouldn't be a sanctioning body or you end up with totally corrupt enterprises like the WBC/IBF/WBA etc. It should be a nonprofit body so that money can't play any part in ranking decisions or anything else.

Who the fuck would waste there time with any non-profit? Nobody eats with non-profit. Fuck non-profit. Like I said before the WBC is a business. It needs to make money

The absolute last thing an actual world boxing sanctioning body needs to make is money. The fact that the current ones exist to make money is why boxing is in the state it's in now.

That's gotta the dumbest thing I ever read. So you telling me everything must be paid for out of there pockets? They have to crown champions and rank fighters for free? Are you fucking kidding me? If it's that easy why don't you go fucking do it? Go make a championship belt for each divsion and pay for it out your own pocket. Go around the world watching fights and ranking fighters. Pay for it out your own pocket. Sponsor and host events and pay for it all yourself. If you need help, hire some employees. But let them know they working for free cuz you can't make any money out of this.

The belts are $20 weightlifting belts with a big gay buckle on them and in the case of the prestigious WBC, half a dozen ten cent badges with pictures of guys like Ali and Ray Leonard on them.

They don't do anything for free. All the sanctioning body-approved judges, referees and the sanctioning guy at ringside who gives the belt to the winner at the end of the fight all need paying and all their expenses, hotels and airfares etc need paying. And they're all paid by the promoters on top of all the sanctioning fees the sanctioning bodies charge. The conventions and events they sponsor are all money-making enterprises too. Conventions are big business in case you didn't know.

You can run one of these organisations by setting up a proper regulatory body that isn't actually allowed to make a profit. Where the people involved in running it don't have a motive to make money, where the motive is to run the most effective and credible organisation possible because that will be the best long-term way to benefit boxing and the fighters who fight the fights.

Every major sport in America has a long history of no regulation and massive corruption in the early days of the sport -- baseball, American football and so on. Boxing is still unregulated. It would be more difficult to regulate than other sports but not impossible. It's managed to avoid any kind of major enforcement by government because boxing has dropped in popularity and isn't worth the effort by politicians so corrupt motherfuckers like the WBC can continue to function unimpeded.

[Violent Demise]

Every major sport in America has a long history of no regulation and massive corruption in the early days of the sport -- baseball, American football and so on. Boxing is still unregulated. It would be more difficult to regulate than other sports but not impossible. It's managed to avoid any kind of major enforcement by government because boxing has dropped in popularity and isn't worth the effort by politicians so corrupt motherfuckers like the WBC can continue to function unimpeded.

And look at the muthafukkas running them sports and calling the shots now. They get paid. Like fat rats. Bud Selig, Baseballs Commissioner took home 25 million in 2013. Roger Goodell, Footballs Commissioner 29 million. David Stern the Basketball Commissioner 22 million. Hockeys commissioner Gary Bettman made 9 million. Even Golfs muthafukkin commissioner was able to take 6 million home. But the muthafukka in boxing have to do it for free, right?

[Kirkland Laing]

Every major sport in America has a long history of no regulation and massive corruption in the early days of the sport -- baseball, American football and so on. Boxing is still unregulated. It would be more difficult to regulate than other sports but not impossible. It's managed to avoid any kind of major enforcement by government because boxing has dropped in popularity and isn't worth the effort by politicians so corrupt motherfuckers like the WBC can continue to function unimpeded.

And look at the muthafukkas running them sports and calling the shots now. They get paid. Like fat rats. Bud Selig, Baseballs Commissioner took home 25 million in 2013. Roger Goodell, Footballs Commissioner 29 million. David Stern the Basketball Commissioner 22 million. Hockeys commissioner Gary Bettman made 9 million. Even Golfs muthafukkin commissioner was able to take 6 million home. But the muthafukka in boxing have to do it for free, right?

Are you seriously trying to claim that professional boxing is run as well as the NFL? So this year there's going to be silver, diamond, interim, regula, super and emeritus Superbowl champions?

If you turn the NFL over the course of fifty years from semi-pro nickel and dime outfits into a ten billion a year business then you as a regulator can expect to be rewarded for that. There's no problem paying a chief executive a salary commensurate with the job. The NFL chief is taking home less than 0.3% of NFL revenue. You can make a case that CEO pay in general is far too high and I'd agree with you but they're being paid what their employers are prepared to pay.

But that's a publicly declared expense, it's not somebody gouging the market or racketeering. Now let's say over the same fifty year period you've presided over boxing being one of the biggest if not the biggest spport in America to being a niche sport that the general public are largely unaware of. One of your top regulators has been indicted and convicted on thirty teo counts of racketeering and taking bribes (IBF). All other regulators are shielded from similar indictments by having their headquarters offshore but it looks to everyone that they're exactly the same kind of racketeering outfits as the IBF is. How much should the head regulators of professional boxing be paid?

Maybe the boxing sanctioning bodies need total reform, not to mention lots more prison sentences handed out before we start deciding whether any of these guys should ever be able to earn a living from boxing again, never mind setting their salary levels.

[Violent Demise]

Every major sport in America has a long history of no regulation and massive corruption in the early days of the sport -- baseball, American football and so on. Boxing is still unregulated. It would be more difficult to regulate than other sports but not impossible. It's managed to avoid any kind of major enforcement by government because boxing has dropped in popularity and isn't worth the effort by politicians so corrupt motherfuckers like the WBC can continue to function unimpeded.

And look at the muthafukkas running them sports and calling the shots now. They get paid. Like fat rats. Bud Selig, Baseballs Commissioner took home 25 million in 2013. Roger Goodell, Footballs Commissioner 29 million. David Stern the Basketball Commissioner 22 million. Hockeys commissioner Gary Bettman made 9 million. Even Golfs muthafukkin commissioner was able to take 6 million home. But the muthafukka in boxing have to do it for free, right?

Are you seriously trying to claim that professional boxing is run as well as the NFL? So this year there's going to be silver, diamond, interim, regula, super and emeritus Superbowl champions?

If you turn the NFL over the course of fifty years from semi-pro nickel and dime outfits into a ten billion a year business then you as a regulator can expect to be rewarded for that. There's no problem paying a chief executive a salary commensurate with the job. The NFL chief is taking home less than 0.3% of NFL revenue. You can make a case that CEO pay in general is far too high and I'd agree with you but they're being paid what their employers are prepared to pay.

But that's a publicly declared expense, it's not somebody gouging the market or racketeering. Now let's say over the same fifty year period you've presided over boxing being one of the biggest if not the biggest spport in America to being a niche sport that the general public are largely unaware of. One of your top regulators has been indicted and convicted on thirty teo counts of racketeering and taking bribes (IBF). All other regulators are shielded from similar indictments by having their headquarters offshore but it looks to everyone that they're exactly the same kind of racketeering outfits as the IBF is. How much should the head regulators of professional boxing be paid?

Maybe the boxing sanctioning bodies need total reform, not to mention lots more prison sentences handed out before we start deciding whether any of these guys should ever be able to earn a living from boxing again, never mind setting their salary levels.

You know why that shit happened? Cuz muthafukkas are expected to run shit for free. Which is impossible to do. The fact that you think these organizations should travel the world ranking fighters, hosting events and everything else and pay for it out of there own pockets is insane. Nobody does shit for free. Nobody should have to do shit for free. You can't feed your family off "it's the right thing to do". Fuck that. Give me cash. If not I'm gonna find a way to get some

[Fenster]

The promoter of an event pays the judges/officials and all their expenses, not the alphabet. Nodody travels the world to rank fighters, they just answer the phone, from wherever they're sat in the world, and negotiate how much it will cost to push a fighter up/into their rankings.

It's not about them "doing it for free," it's about them pulling off an unbelievable scam, which basically means money for nothing. I find it quite impressive.

[Lineal]

Some fighters are starting to shun the sanctioning bodies. Ward dropped his emeritus status

[Kirkland Laing]

Every major sport in America has a long history of no regulation and massive corruption in the early days of the sport -- baseball, American football and so on. Boxing is still unregulated. It would be more difficult to regulate than other sports but not impossible. It's managed to avoid any kind of major enforcement by government because boxing has dropped in popularity and isn't worth the effort by politicians so corrupt motherfuckers like the WBC can continue to function unimpeded.

And look at the muthafukkas running them sports and calling the shots now. They get paid. Like fat rats. Bud Selig, Baseballs Commissioner took home 25 million in 2013. Roger Goodell, Footballs Commissioner 29 million. David Stern the Basketball Commissioner 22 million. Hockeys commissioner Gary Bettman made 9 million. Even Golfs muthafukkin commissioner was able to take 6 million home. But the muthafukka in boxing have to do it for free, right?

Are you seriously trying to claim that professional boxing is run as well as the NFL? So this year there's going to be silver, diamond, interim, regula, super and emeritus Superbowl champions?

If you turn the NFL over the course of fifty years from semi-pro nickel and dime outfits into a ten billion a year business then you as a regulator can expect to be rewarded for that. There's no problem paying a chief executive a salary commensurate with the job. The NFL chief is taking home less than 0.3% of NFL revenue. You can make a case that CEO pay in general is far too high and I'd agree with you but they're being paid what their employers are prepared to pay.

But that's a publicly declared expense, it's not somebody gouging the market or racketeering. Now let's say over the same fifty year period you've presided over boxing being one of the biggest if not the biggest spport in America to being a niche sport that the general public are largely unaware of. One of your top regulators has been indicted and convicted on thirty teo counts of racketeering and taking bribes (IBF). All other regulators are shielded from similar indictments by having their headquarters offshore but it looks to everyone that they're exactly the same kind of racketeering outfits as the IBF is. How much should the head regulators of professional boxing be paid?

Maybe the boxing sanctioning bodies need total reform, not to mention lots more prison sentences handed out before we start deciding whether any of these guys should ever be able to earn a living from boxing again, never mind setting their salary levels.

You know why that shit happened? Cuz muthafukkas are expected to run shit for free. Which is impossible to do. The fact that you think these organizations should travel the world ranking fighters, hosting events and everything else and pay for it out of there own pockets is insane. Nobody does shit for free. Nobody should have to do shit for free. You can't feed your family off "it's the right thing to do". Fuck that. Give me cash. If not I'm gonna find a way to get some

Nobody is asking anybody to do anything without being paid. In a model nonprofit organisation every single employee would be paid a fair salary for the job they're doing. What they would not be allowed to do is run a belt protection racket which is what we have now.

And they don't travel the world ranking fighters. When the IBF got hit with all the indictments they made a documentary and they interviewed the guy who was in charge of the rankings. His office was his front room which had a TV, a video and a plastic mountain of VHS tapes. He had a civil suit against the IBF himself because he hadn't been paid and had basically been used as a bagman to pick up the bribes from promoters. The funniest part of the film was him going from saying yeah rating fighters is an art, you have to really know what you're looking at to talking about how he'd taken a hundred thousand from Arum to put somebody in the top ten.

And when they "host events" they're all events to make money or get publicity giving a few dollars to some charity/fighter. They have a big convention every year, normally somewhere like Thailand where they rent an out of season hotel for a week and all the promoters pay a few thousand to fly out for a week of hookers and blow. And a few business deals. But mainly it's a jolly and the sanctioning bodies make money out of these events that they host.

[Kirkland Laing]

I just googled the documentary and I found this

Former Ratings Chairman Sues IBF, Claims Corruption - Boxing News


This is not the same guy as was in the documentary which I can't find.

[Violent Demise]

Every major sport in America has a long history of no regulation and massive corruption in the early days of the sport -- baseball, American football and so on. Boxing is still unregulated. It would be more difficult to regulate than other sports but not impossible. It's managed to avoid any kind of major enforcement by government because boxing has dropped in popularity and isn't worth the effort by politicians so corrupt motherfuckers like the WBC can continue to function unimpeded.

And look at the muthafukkas running them sports and calling the shots now. They get paid. Like fat rats. Bud Selig, Baseballs Commissioner took home 25 million in 2013. Roger Goodell, Footballs Commissioner 29 million. David Stern the Basketball Commissioner 22 million. Hockeys commissioner Gary Bettman made 9 million. Even Golfs muthafukkin commissioner was able to take 6 million home. But the muthafukka in boxing have to do it for free, right?

Are you seriously trying to claim that professional boxing is run as well as the NFL? So this year there's going to be silver, diamond, interim, regula, super and emeritus Superbowl champions?

If you turn the NFL over the course of fifty years from semi-pro nickel and dime outfits into a ten billion a year business then you as a regulator can expect to be rewarded for that. There's no problem paying a chief executive a salary commensurate with the job. The NFL chief is taking home less than 0.3% of NFL revenue. You can make a case that CEO pay in general is far too high and I'd agree with you but they're being paid what their employers are prepared to pay.

But that's a publicly declared expense, it's not somebody gouging the market or racketeering. Now let's say over the same fifty year period you've presided over boxing being one of the biggest if not the biggest spport in America to being a niche sport that the general public are largely unaware of. One of your top regulators has been indicted and convicted on thirty teo counts of racketeering and taking bribes (IBF). All other regulators are shielded from similar indictments by having their headquarters offshore but it looks to everyone that they're exactly the same kind of racketeering outfits as the IBF is. How much should the head regulators of professional boxing be paid?

Maybe the boxing sanctioning bodies need total reform, not to mention lots more prison sentences handed out before we start deciding whether any of these guys should ever be able to earn a living from boxing again, never mind setting their salary levels.

You know why that shit happened? Cuz muthafukkas are expected to run shit for free. Which is impossible to do. The fact that you think these organizations should travel the world ranking fighters, hosting events and everything else and pay for it out of there own pockets is insane. Nobody does shit for free. Nobody should have to do shit for free. You can't feed your family off "it's the right thing to do". Fuck that. Give me cash. If not I'm gonna find a way to get some

Nobody is asking anybody to do anything without being paid. In a model nonprofit organisation every single employee would be paid a fair salary for the job they're doing. What they would not be allowed to do is run a belt protection racket which is what we have now.

And they don't travel the world ranking fighters. When the IBF got hit with all the indictments they made a documentary and they interviewed the guy who was in charge of the rankings. His office was his front room which had a TV, a video and a plastic mountain of VHS tapes. He had a civil suit against the IBF himself because he hadn't been paid and had basically been used as a bagman to pick up the bribes from promoters. The funniest part of the film was him going from saying yeah rating fighters is an art, you have to really know what you're looking at to talking about how he'd taken a hundred thousand from Arum to put somebody in the top ten.

And when they "host events" they're all events to make money or get publicity giving a few dollars to some charity/fighter. They have a big convention every year, normally somewhere like Thailand where they rent an out of season hotel for a week and all the promoters pay a few thousand to fly out for a week of hookers and blow. And a few business deals. But mainly it's a jolly and the sanctioning bodies make money out of these events that they host.

Sounds good. But who would be doing the paying? No one. Nobody would want to pay them. Not the promoters. Not the managers. And not the fighters. So while I don't agree with the organizations actions. I do understand them

[Kirkland Laing]

Every major sport in America has a long history of no regulation and massive corruption in the early days of the sport -- baseball, American football and so on. Boxing is still unregulated. It would be more difficult to regulate than other sports but not impossible. It's managed to avoid any kind of major enforcement by government because boxing has dropped in popularity and isn't worth the effort by politicians so corrupt motherfuckers like the WBC can continue to function unimpeded.

And look at the muthafukkas running them sports and calling the shots now. They get paid. Like fat rats. Bud Selig, Baseballs Commissioner took home 25 million in 2013. Roger Goodell, Footballs Commissioner 29 million. David Stern the Basketball Commissioner 22 million. Hockeys commissioner Gary Bettman made 9 million. Even Golfs muthafukkin commissioner was able to take 6 million home. But the muthafukka in boxing have to do it for free, right?

Are you seriously trying to claim that professional boxing is run as well as the NFL? So this year there's going to be silver, diamond, interim, regula, super and emeritus Superbowl champions?

If you turn the NFL over the course of fifty years from semi-pro nickel and dime outfits into a ten billion a year business then you as a regulator can expect to be rewarded for that. There's no problem paying a chief executive a salary commensurate with the job. The NFL chief is taking home less than 0.3% of NFL revenue. You can make a case that CEO pay in general is far too high and I'd agree with you but they're being paid what their employers are prepared to pay.

But that's a publicly declared expense, it's not somebody gouging the market or racketeering. Now let's say over the same fifty year period you've presided over boxing being one of the biggest if not the biggest spport in America to being a niche sport that the general public are largely unaware of. One of your top regulators has been indicted and convicted on thirty teo counts of racketeering and taking bribes (IBF). All other regulators are shielded from similar indictments by having their headquarters offshore but it looks to everyone that they're exactly the same kind of racketeering outfits as the IBF is. How much should the head regulators of professional boxing be paid?

Maybe the boxing sanctioning bodies need total reform, not to mention lots more prison sentences handed out before we start deciding whether any of these guys should ever be able to earn a living from boxing again, never mind setting their salary levels.

You know why that shit happened? Cuz muthafukkas are expected to run shit for free. Which is impossible to do. The fact that you think these organizations should travel the world ranking fighters, hosting events and everything else and pay for it out of there own pockets is insane. Nobody does shit for free. Nobody should have to do shit for free. You can't feed your family off "it's the right thing to do". Fuck that. Give me cash. If not I'm gonna find a way to get some

Nobody is asking anybody to do anything without being paid. In a model nonprofit organisation every single employee would be paid a fair salary for the job they're doing. What they would not be allowed to do is run a belt protection racket which is what we have now.

And they don't travel the world ranking fighters. When the IBF got hit with all the indictments they made a documentary and they interviewed the guy who was in charge of the rankings. His office was his front room which had a TV, a video and a plastic mountain of VHS tapes. He had a civil suit against the IBF himself because he hadn't been paid and had basically been used as a bagman to pick up the bribes from promoters. The funniest part of the film was him going from saying yeah rating fighters is an art, you have to really know what you're looking at to talking about how he'd taken a hundred thousand from Arum to put somebody in the top ten.

And when they "host events" they're all events to make money or get publicity giving a few dollars to some charity/fighter. They have a big convention every year, normally somewhere like Thailand where they rent an out of season hotel for a week and all the promoters pay a few thousand to fly out for a week of hookers and blow. And a few business deals. But mainly it's a jolly and the sanctioning bodies make money out of these events that they host.

Sounds good. But who would be doing the paying? No one. Nobody would want to pay them. Not the promoters. Not the managers. And not the fighters. So while I don't agree with the organizations actions. I do understand them

Nobody would want to pay to fight for an actual legitimate world title?

Here's what should happen. Make running, being an employee or doing business with a sanctioning body that isn't the new non-profit a crime punishable by thirty years in a federal penitentiary where the sanctioning guys would get to meet and interact with nice people, then after they've served the thirty years they get executed.

Then the new sanctioning body starts the process of cleaning up boxing. You could pick half a dozen guys off this forum and sit them in a room and you'd have the bare bones of a new set of regulations by lunchtime provided you locked them in to keep them away from alcohol.

Actually fuck it, they could all go for a meal and probably have it worked out by the time they'd finished their starters. Probably go with the same number of weight classes instead of going back to the original eight. Rank the top eight or sixteen guys and put them in a hat and have the top eight/sixteen fight themselves through to a winner. A simultaneous tournament in every weight class with a single champion at the end of it would create massive publicity/interest in boxing.

Either seed the top four/eight and draw the rest of the guys against them or throw all the names in a hat and just leave it to chance. Then you end up with a champion and a top eight and you go from there.

Or something similar. But not difficult to do. You work out how much is fair to take from a fight and you show audited accounts for every penny in and every penny out of the organisation. Full transparency. Public board meetings shown on the internet so there's no possibility of corruption.

You're still never going to make enough to give every boxer a pension or cover their healthcare but you do what you can with the funds available.

Something like that, no?

[Bo-Bo24]

Every major sport in America has a long history of no regulation and massive corruption in the early days of the sport -- baseball, American football and so on. Boxing is still unregulated. It would be more difficult to regulate than other sports but not impossible. It's managed to avoid any kind of major enforcement by government because boxing has dropped in popularity and isn't worth the effort by politicians so corrupt motherfuckers like the WBC can continue to function unimpeded.

And look at the muthafukkas running them sports and calling the shots now. They get paid. Like fat rats. Bud Selig, Baseballs Commissioner took home 25 million in 2013. Roger Goodell, Footballs Commissioner 29 million. David Stern the Basketball Commissioner 22 million. Hockeys commissioner Gary Bettman made 9 million. Even Golfs muthafukkin commissioner was able to take 6 million home. But the muthafukka in boxing have to do it for free, right?

Are you seriously trying to claim that professional boxing is run as well as the NFL? So this year there's going to be silver, diamond, interim, regula, super and emeritus Superbowl champions?

If you turn the NFL over the course of fifty years from semi-pro nickel and dime outfits into a ten billion a year business then you as a regulator can expect to be rewarded for that. There's no problem paying a chief executive a salary commensurate with the job. The NFL chief is taking home less than 0.3% of NFL revenue. You can make a case that CEO pay in general is far too high and I'd agree with you but they're being paid what their employers are prepared to pay.

But that's a publicly declared expense, it's not somebody gouging the market or racketeering. Now let's say over the same fifty year period you've presided over boxing being one of the biggest if not the biggest spport in America to being a niche sport that the general public are largely unaware of. One of your top regulators has been indicted and convicted on thirty teo counts of racketeering and taking bribes (IBF). All other regulators are shielded from similar indictments by having their headquarters offshore but it looks to everyone that they're exactly the same kind of racketeering outfits as the IBF is. How much should the head regulators of professional boxing be paid?

Maybe the boxing sanctioning bodies need total reform, not to mention lots more prison sentences handed out before we start deciding whether any of these guys should ever be able to earn a living from boxing again, never mind setting their salary levels.

Amen. You are talking a lot of sense, unfortunately governing bodies have caused long term damage to the sport.