Is Mayweather a all time great?

[powerpuncher]

I do not feel that Max is a dumbass but i fell he ranks this era like old people rank there eras only worse at times i guess. I mean when it comes to heavyweights he has a chip on his shoulder for what ever reason and seems to not want to give any dues to fights from the 60's back in any weight class.

not just HWs. anybody before the 90's pretty much he says would stand no chance against fighters today. he is alright when it comes to modern boxing discussion but should leave history to the big boys.

[Julius Rain]

Theres no way you can say no. Even if he had lost to Castillo, Dela Hoya or Maidana. If he had lost those it wouldn't have mattered.

[El Kabong]

Theres no way you can say no. Even if he had lost to Castillo, Dela Hoya or Maidana. If he had lost those it wouldn't have mattered.

.....eh, maybe

[Master]

Hearns is an ATG and he should be higher than Floyd. He dominated and won titles all the way up to light heavy from welterweight, he was exciting and had serious punch power. Something that can not be said about Floyd.

[Mr140]

I don't think it is disrespectful to put Mayweather in the top 15 and Pac in the top 20 in atg. Considering all the fighters and weight classes i don't think that is a dis to either fighter Max. I don't think you have followed Hearns or Bentiez careers at all i think you have no knowledge of them to be honest with you.

[Master]

I don't think it is disrespectful to put Mayweather in the top 15 and Pac in the top 20 in atg. Considering all the fighters and weight classes i don't think that is a dis to either fighter Max. I don't think you have followed Hearns or Bentiez careers at all i think you have no knowledge of them to be honest with you.

Do not pander to Max, what he knows about boxing could be written on the back of a stamp in capital letters.

[mrbig1]

The people who say Money is not a ATG don't like him as a person. That should have nothing to do with the greatness of a fighter. I just use my eyes. What he has done in the ring and who he has beat. JMM is a guy who gave Pacman pure hell. In fact you can make a case that Pac never beat him even at his best. That takes nothing away from Pac it's just JMM is a outstanding fighter. The same guy that Floyd made a fool out of. If that's not great then I don't know what is.

[Beanflicker]

Hearns is an ATG and he should be higher than Floyd. He dominated and won titles all the way up to light heavy from welterweight, he was exciting and had serious punch power. Something that can not be said about Floyd.

Since when does the excitement you bring and how hard you punch factor in to determining your ATG status?

If those are criteria, you can take guys like Willie Pep off the table right now.

[Master]

Hearns is an ATG and he should be higher than Floyd. He dominated and won titles all the way up to light heavy from welterweight, he was exciting and had serious punch power. Something that can not be said about Floyd.

Since when does the excitement you bring and how hard you punch factor in to determining your ATG status?

If those are criteria, you can take guys like Willie Pep off the table right now.

Those are factors that made him a great fighter. Get over yourself and off Floyd's dick and pay attention.

[Beanflicker]

Those are factors that made him a great fighter. Get over yourself and off Floyd's dick and pay attention.

Pay attention to what? Complete nonsense?

Being exciting has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the fighter.

Go to your nearest bar and find the two biggest guys there and throw them in the ring. It'll be exciting because it'll be two meatheads just throwing as hard as they can until one gets brutally KO'd. Does that mean they are great fighters?

Being boring is actually more of a sign of being great, because it usually means that you're completely dominant and you're not taking punishment.

It's amazing to me that you could not only be so woefully stupid, but actually ARROGANT in your idiocy, like you're somehow putting me in my place by saying something that is so stupid it almost defies response.

Go sit at the kids table and watch some more boxing tapes, and come back to the adult table when you feel you can actually contribute to a discussion.

[Beanflicker]

In the end, people can judge p4p, atg, ect with whatever criteria they want. If certain people want to believe that Floyd is a scrub, or that he's simply a "good" fighter who cherry picked his way to an undefeated (as of now, anyway) career, that's their prerogative. In the end, I think you really have to look at how dominant the athlete was and whether or not they were fighting world class opposition, and you have to look at the in-ring ability.

Floyd's record (46-0) in itself isn't impressive. There have been many others who have gone 40 plus - 0. JCC Jr was 46-0 before he lost to Martinez. His dad went to 89-0. Spadafora was 48-0. Valuev was 46-0. Sven Ottke retired at 36-0. Greatness is more than having a pretty record (and that goes for the old timers who have over 200 wins).

But for a guy to go 16 years of fighting at the world class level - which is all champions and top 10 contenders - without slipping once is incredible. And it's not like a Sven Ottke thing where he fought nobodies in virtually all his fights. People talk about Floyd's path like it was safe and he was never in any danger, which is ridiculous, because just think of how many guys in boxing history have been upset by guys who, in hindsight, didn't even belong in the ring with them. Sugar Ray Robinson ran into a bunch of guys that either beat him or gave him the fight of his life. Guys who will show up nobodies top 10, 20, 30, 50 or even 100. Guys like Basora and Brimm. It's always dangerous to be the #1 guy with a target on his back and fighting top ranked guys.

What makes a fighter? Skill, athleticism, heart, boxing IQ, discipline, determination, versatility, ability to absorb punishment, ect.

If you really think about it, how many guys can you name who showed all of these things simultaneously, at an elite level?

There are tons of guys with fantastic athleticism, but they never had the skill to go with it. There are guys who had great skill, but no athleticism to go with it. There are guys who had it all except discipline, and would under train, take guys lightly, and/or eat themselves up into weight classes they had no business fighting in.

You've had insanely talented guys (Zab Judah) who were mental midgets and lacked the discipline to stick to a game plan and the determination to find a way to win. There were guys who had it all, but unfortunately didn't have the god-given ability to take a punch. A lot of guys were great, but were one dimensional and lacked the versatility needed to adapt when they came up to someone who their style didn't work against. Some guys couldn't bust a grape with a punch.

When you really look at it, the guy's who had it all - world class athleticism, skill, boxing IQ, discipline, heart, durability, ect - it's a very short list. You're talking guys like Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Ali, ect. And you're talking Floyd Mayweather. These guys were all special athletes in the sport and they all had their haters in their time. These kinds of fighters don't come around very often so you have to appreciate them while they're here.

[Beanz]

In the end, people can judge p4p, atg, ect with whatever criteria they want. If certain people want to believe that Floyd is a scrub, or that he's simply a "good" fighter who cherry picked his way to an undefeated (as of now, anyway) career, that's their prerogative. In the end, I think you really have to look at how dominant the athlete was and whether or not they were fighting world class opposition, and you have to look at the in-ring ability.

Floyd's record (46-0) in itself isn't impressive. There have been many others who have gone 40 plus - 0. JCC Jr was 46-0 before he lost to Martinez. His dad went to 89-0. Spadafora was 48-0. Valuev was 46-0. Sven Ottke retired at 36-0. Greatness is more than having a pretty record (and that goes for the old timers who have over 200 wins).

But for a guy to go 16 years of fighting at the world class level - which is all champions and top 10 contenders - without slipping once is incredible. And it's not like a Sven Ottke thing where he fought nobodies in virtually all his fights. People talk about Floyd's path like it was safe and he was never in any danger, which is ridiculous, because just think of how many guys in boxing history have been upset by guys who, in hindsight, didn't even belong in the ring with them. Sugar Ray Robinson ran into a bunch of guys that either beat him or gave him the fight of his life. Guys who will show up nobodies top 10, 20, 30, 50 or even 100. Guys like Basora and Brimm. It's always dangerous to be the #1 guy with a target on his back and fighting top ranked guys.

What makes a fighter? Skill, athleticism, heart, boxing IQ, discipline, determination, versatility, ability to absorb punishment, ect.

If you really think about it, how many guys can you name who showed all of these things simultaneously, at an elite level?

There are tons of guys with fantastic athleticism, but they never had the skill to go with it. There are guys who had great skill, but no athleticism to go with it. There are guys who had it all except discipline, and would under train, take guys lightly, and/or eat themselves up into weight classes they had no business fighting in.

You've had insanely talented guys (Zab Judah) who were mental midgets and lacked the discipline to stick to a game plan and the determination to find a way to win. There were guys who had it all, but unfortunately didn't have the god-given ability to take a punch. A lot of guys were great, but were one dimensional and lacked the versatility needed to adapt when they came up to someone who their style didn't work against. Some guys couldn't bust a grape with a punch.

When you really look at it, the guy's who had it all - world class athleticism, skill, boxing IQ, discipline, heart, durability, ect - it's a very short list. You're talking guys like Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Ali, ect. And you're talking Floyd Mayweather. These guys were all special athletes in the sport and they all had their haters in their time. These kinds of fighters don't come around very often so you have to appreciate them while they're here.

A top 3 is a short list, a top 5 is a short list, a top 10 is a short list. What are you trying to say? Surely anyone making a list of 20 is an ATG?

[Julius Rain]

Theres no way you can say no. Even if he had lost to Castillo, Dela Hoya or Maidana. If he had lost those it wouldn't have mattered.

.....eh, maybe

If he lost all three then yes but 1 of those I don't think would of hurt as much as people put into his undefeated record.

[El Kabong]

Theres no way you can say no. Even if he had lost to Castillo, Dela Hoya or Maidana. If he had lost those it wouldn't have mattered.

.....eh, maybe

If he lost all three then yes but 1 of those I don't think would of hurt as much as people put into his undefeated record.

I'll go along with that