UK - Council and European Election

[Master]

Dark Lord Al you are entitled to your opinion but do not mix refugees with immigrants.

Also the real issues are the bankers being subsidised, cuts in public services through dogma and political ideology and millionaires being allowed to avoid taxes.

yes those are issues - but just the same as what Al highlights you knobrot. All real issues

I was out in Leeds late other night and was shocked at the number on the streets in town centre just lined up in shop doorways. Enough

The rest and most of them are doing low paid jobs that most people on benefits do not want to do such as cleaning toilets, working in care homes and doing night shifts.

[Dark Lord Al]

Dark Lord Al you are entitled to your opinion but do not mix refugees with immigrants.

Also the real issues are the bankers being subsidised, cuts in public services through dogma and political ideology and millionaires being allowed to avoid taxes.

yes those are issues - but just the same as what Al highlights you knobrot. All real issues

I was out in Leeds late other night and was shocked at the number on the streets in town centre just lined up in shop doorways. Enough

The rest and most of them are doing low paid jobs that most people on benefits do not want to do such as cleaning toilets, working in care homes and doing night shifts.

So you make the people on the dole do those job for fucks sake , you change the system , if an immigrant is on a low income he doesn't even pay tax , and we give his family and him health care and education , for fucks sake do the fucking maths .

[Master]

Dark Lord Al you are entitled to your opinion but do not mix refugees with immigrants.

Also the real issues are the bankers being subsidised, cuts in public services through dogma and political ideology and millionaires being allowed to avoid taxes.

yes those are issues - but just the same as what Al highlights you knobrot. All real issues

I was out in Leeds late other night and was shocked at the number on the streets in town centre just lined up in shop doorways. Enough

The rest and most of them are doing low paid jobs that most people on benefits do not want to do such as cleaning toilets, working in care homes and doing night shifts.

So you make the people on the dole do those job for fucks sake , you change the system , if an immigrant is on a low income he doesn't even pay tax , and we give his family and him health care and education , for fucks sake do the fucking maths .

Do you see me write aggressively, getting emotional, swearing and calling you names?

Reality is the immigrants work for below the minimum wage which is why people are benefits do not take them as they are better off on benefits. They are here because they can earn a better standard of living here than over there. Yes they use the NHS and some commit crimes but where they can they contribute to our culture, society and the economy, as will their children and subsequent generation.

[Dia bando]

Dark Lord Al you are entitled to your opinion but do not mix refugees with immigrants.

Also the real issues are the bankers being subsidised, cuts in public services through dogma and political ideology and millionaires being allowed to avoid taxes.

yes those are issues - but just the same as what Al highlights you knobrot. All real issues

I was out in Leeds late other night and was shocked at the number on the streets in town centre just lined up in shop doorways. Enough

The rest and most of them are doing low paid jobs that most people on benefits do not want to do such as cleaning toilets, working in care homes and doing night shifts.

So you make the people on the dole do those job for fucks sake , you change the system , if an immigrant is on a low income he doesn't even pay tax , and we give his family and him health care and education , for fucks sake do the fucking maths .

Do you see me write aggressively, getting emotional, swearing and calling you names?

Reality is the immigrants work for below the minimum wage which is why people are benefits do not take them as they are better off on benefits. They are here because they can earn a better standard of living here than over there. Yes they use the NHS and some commit crimes but where they can they contribute to our culture, society and the economy, as will their children and subsequent generation.

I agree with you on some point, but driving wages does not help any body bar the employers, and
the employers are taking advantage of this lower wages, friends of mine have lost there jobs to
eastern block workers, they lost there jobs of £7 plus per hour and there jobs went to eastern block
workers on less than minimum wage.
Sorry to say this is happening all over the country, and UKIP have a field day with this information
true, but they never say about the employers exploiting workers immigrant and non immigrant workers
it a disgrace. We are returning to the dark ages, cap in hand, groveling on hands and knees, to the
bosses, we are now devolving it makes me sick.

[Master]

Dark Lord Al you are entitled to your opinion but do not mix refugees with immigrants.

Also the real issues are the bankers being subsidised, cuts in public services through dogma and political ideology and millionaires being allowed to avoid taxes.

yes those are issues - but just the same as what Al highlights you knobrot. All real issues

I was out in Leeds late other night and was shocked at the number on the streets in town centre just lined up in shop doorways. Enough

The rest and most of them are doing low paid jobs that most people on benefits do not want to do such as cleaning toilets, working in care homes and doing night shifts.

So you make the people on the dole do those job for fucks sake , you change the system , if an immigrant is on a low income he doesn't even pay tax , and we give his family and him health care and education , for fucks sake do the fucking maths .

Do you see me write aggressively, getting emotional, swearing and calling you names?

Reality is the immigrants work for below the minimum wage which is why people are benefits do not take them as they are better off on benefits. They are here because they can earn a better standard of living here than over there. Yes they use the NHS and some commit crimes but where they can they contribute to our culture, society and the economy, as will their children and subsequent generation.

I agree with you on some point, but driving wages does not help any body bar the employers, and
the employers are taking advantage of this lower wages, friends of mine have lost there jobs to
eastern block workers, they lost there jobs of £7 plus per hour and there jobs went to eastern block
workers on less than minimum wage.
Sorry to say this is happening all over the country, and UKIP have a field day with this information
true, but they never say about the employers exploiting workers immigrant and non immigrant workers
it a disgrace. We are returning to the dark ages, cap in hand, groveling on hands and knees, to the
bosses, we are now devolving it makes me sick.

What can be worse is that these people have to pay the traffickers which gets them in further debt.

[mattboxingfan]

I have no problem with people moving to England to better there lives. If you are born in a poor country with little opportunities why stay there and suffer? We are lucky to have been born in a wealthy prospering country. Why not share that with others who are less fortunate?

The real problem is people who live in this country and choose not to work and instead live off benefits. They come from both sides. People born in England and people who have immigrated here. I would happily deport them to a desert island.

But we can't stop people who want to come to England to better themselves and improve there family's lives that's just wrong.

[Kirkland Laing]

Dark Lord Al you are entitled to your opinion but do not mix refugees with immigrants.

Also the real issues are the bankers being subsidised, cuts in public services through dogma and political ideology and millionaires being allowed to avoid taxes.

yes those are issues - but just the same as what Al highlights you knobrot. All real issues

I was out in Leeds late other night and was shocked at the number on the streets in town centre just lined up in shop doorways. Enough

The rest and most of them are doing low paid jobs that most people on benefits do not want to do such as cleaning toilets, working in care homes and doing night shifts.

So you make the people on the dole do those job for fucks sake , you change the system , if an immigrant is on a low income he doesn't even pay tax , and we give his family and him health care and education , for fucks sake do the fucking maths .

Do you see me write aggressively, getting emotional, swearing and calling you names?

Reality is the immigrants work for below the minimum wage which is why people are benefits do not take them as they are better off on benefits. They are here because they can earn a better standard of living here than over there. Yes they use the NHS and some commit crimes but where they can they contribute to our culture, society and the economy, as will their children and subsequent generation.

The thing is the "contribute to society" bit is normally a contribution to big and small business profits. It's great for business and the country's GDP but not so great for the people already living in the country as they face increased competition for work, housing, access to school places, healthcare and other social services.

"Contribute to society" is just a mantra repeated by politicians who are just a bunch of corporate servants, saying what they're told to say by the people who fund their parties.

[Master]

Dark Lord Al you are entitled to your opinion but do not mix refugees with immigrants.

Also the real issues are the bankers being subsidised, cuts in public services through dogma and political ideology and millionaires being allowed to avoid taxes.

yes those are issues - but just the same as what Al highlights you knobrot. All real issues

I was out in Leeds late other night and was shocked at the number on the streets in town centre just lined up in shop doorways. Enough

The rest and most of them are doing low paid jobs that most people on benefits do not want to do such as cleaning toilets, working in care homes and doing night shifts.

So you make the people on the dole do those job for fucks sake , you change the system , if an immigrant is on a low income he doesn't even pay tax , and we give his family and him health care and education , for fucks sake do the fucking maths .

Do you see me write aggressively, getting emotional, swearing and calling you names?

Reality is the immigrants work for below the minimum wage which is why people are benefits do not take them as they are better off on benefits. They are here because they can earn a better standard of living here than over there. Yes they use the NHS and some commit crimes but where they can they contribute to our culture, society and the economy, as will their children and subsequent generation.

The thing is the "contribute to society" bit is normally a contribution to big and small business profits. It's great for business and the country's GDP but not so great for the people already living in the country as they face increased competition for work, housing, access to school places, healthcare and other social services.

"Contribute to society" is just a mantra repeated by politicians who are just a bunch of corporate servants, saying what they're told to say by the people who fund their parties.

It is also a real concept, they pay taxes, play a role in the community as do we all. Why should it not be different for them and their children?

[Kirkland Laing]

Dark Lord Al you are entitled to your opinion but do not mix refugees with immigrants.

Also the real issues are the bankers being subsidised, cuts in public services through dogma and political ideology and millionaires being allowed to avoid taxes.

yes those are issues - but just the same as what Al highlights you knobrot. All real issues

I was out in Leeds late other night and was shocked at the number on the streets in town centre just lined up in shop doorways. Enough

The rest and most of them are doing low paid jobs that most people on benefits do not want to do such as cleaning toilets, working in care homes and doing night shifts.

So you make the people on the dole do those job for fucks sake , you change the system , if an immigrant is on a low income he doesn't even pay tax , and we give his family and him health care and education , for fucks sake do the fucking maths .

Do you see me write aggressively, getting emotional, swearing and calling you names?

Reality is the immigrants work for below the minimum wage which is why people are benefits do not take them as they are better off on benefits. They are here because they can earn a better standard of living here than over there. Yes they use the NHS and some commit crimes but where they can they contribute to our culture, society and the economy, as will their children and subsequent generation.

The thing is the "contribute to society" bit is normally a contribution to big and small business profits. It's great for business and the country's GDP but not so great for the people already living in the country as they face increased competition for work, housing, access to school places, healthcare and other social services.

"Contribute to society" is just a mantra repeated by politicians who are just a bunch of corporate servants, saying what they're told to say by the people who fund their parties.

It is also a real concept, they pay taxes, play a role in the community as do we all. Why should it not be different for them and their children?

It's a case of balancing the positives and negatives of immigration. Right now all the positives accrue to a tiny minority of the existing population while all the negatives fall on the vast majority of the existing population.

[Master]

Dark Lord Al you are entitled to your opinion but do not mix refugees with immigrants.

Also the real issues are the bankers being subsidised, cuts in public services through dogma and political ideology and millionaires being allowed to avoid taxes.

yes those are issues - but just the same as what Al highlights you knobrot. All real issues

I was out in Leeds late other night and was shocked at the number on the streets in town centre just lined up in shop doorways. Enough

The rest and most of them are doing low paid jobs that most people on benefits do not want to do such as cleaning toilets, working in care homes and doing night shifts.

So you make the people on the dole do those job for fucks sake , you change the system , if an immigrant is on a low income he doesn't even pay tax , and we give his family and him health care and education , for fucks sake do the fucking maths .

Do you see me write aggressively, getting emotional, swearing and calling you names?

Reality is the immigrants work for below the minimum wage which is why people are benefits do not take them as they are better off on benefits. They are here because they can earn a better standard of living here than over there. Yes they use the NHS and some commit crimes but where they can they contribute to our culture, society and the economy, as will their children and subsequent generation.

The thing is the "contribute to society" bit is normally a contribution to big and small business profits. It's great for business and the country's GDP but not so great for the people already living in the country as they face increased competition for work, housing, access to school places, healthcare and other social services.

"Contribute to society" is just a mantra repeated by politicians who are just a bunch of corporate servants, saying what they're told to say by the people who fund their parties.

It is also a real concept, they pay taxes, play a role in the community as do we all. Why should it not be different for them and their children?

It's a case of balancing the positives and negatives of immigration. Right now all the positives accrue to a tiny minority of the existing population while all the negatives fall on the vast majority of the existing population.

The positives come when their children get educated and earn good salaries and they pay taxes.

[El Kabong]

Beanz, I'm surprised anyone bothers attempting to debate miles anymore....why waste your time? Like many lefties he has no thoughts of his own, he only parrots what guys like Chomsky spout.


Chomsky is a LINGUIST....why anyone gives credence to what a linguist thinks about anything other than words is beyond me. He holds himself (and his held by others) in a much higher than he deserves.

[Beanz]

Beanz, I'm surprised anyone bothers attempting to debate miles anymore....why waste your time? Like many lefties he has no thoughts of his own, he only parrots what guys like Chomsky spout.


Chomsky is a LINGUIST....why anyone gives credence to what a linguist thinks about anything other than words is beyond me. He holds himself (and his held by others) in a much higher than he deserves.

The thing is Miles is not a leftie. Miles is just words with a big stash of gold bars and a seething disrespect for everybody in England, in fact anybody who is not him. I just voted for the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition in the local Elections and the Green Party for the European Parliament so I lean about as far left as you can before falling over and yet I can find little in common with Miles and his England for the English tirade and the preposterous position of him being an Immigrant himself and yet being completely devoid of empathy or common sense. I voted left and I find myself doing so because my country is falling so far over to the right that a handful of pointy headed members of the old boys club have ended up running the show and have robbed the coffers from those below.

This whole debate has been massively skewed and weighted form the start. With Miles and Kirkland keen to class all immigrants as the problem and ignore ANY positive contributions that have been made in the hundreds of years of settlers making this country what it is.

[Beanz]

Kirkland you are full of yourself and even fuller of shit. My personal experience of Immigrants form Eastern Europe on a one to one level is my friend from Lithuania who came here about 5 years ago and now has built his one man business up to the point that he now employs three English people, two of whom he trained up from promising unemployed artists into fully qualified and highly skilled tattoo artists.

You will dismiss that as not representative of most Eastern European immigrants but the point is you and Miles are suggesting that all Immigration is about taking benefits and jobs not creating them and paying taxes. You are clearly just presenting one side of a much more complex argument.

[Beanz]

Miles get your head out of your arse you would not last 5 minutes as a single Mother and stop fucking condemning everyone you judgemental cunt. You were apparently brought up by a single Mother so have some respect and stop assuming everyone but you is a sponger. My Brother in law did History and Politics at Uni like you and he is an insufferable prick too.

[Kirkland Laing]

Kirkland you are full of yourself and even fuller of shit. My personal experience of Immigrants form Eastern Europe on a one to one level is my friend from Lithuania who came here about 5 years ago and now has built his one man business up to the point that he now employs three English people, two of whom he trained up from promising unemployed artists into fully qualified and highly skilled tattoo artists.

You will dismiss that as not representative of most Eastern European immigrants but the point is you and Miles are suggesting that all Immigration is about taking benefits and jobs not creating them and paying taxes. You are clearly just presenting one side of a much more complex argument.

Personal experiences aren't relevant. The plural of anecdote is not data. Even a lefty organisation (either Unison or the GMB or one of the big unions) recently published a report saying that uncontrolled immigration compresses wages and cuts earnings of those at the lower end of the scale by about 15%. (It's actually a bit more than that.)



I'm not against immigration. I'm fine with it. It's just that immigration should be controlled and regulated by the government so it doesn't destroy the earning capabilities of existing Brits. We should only let in the numbers of people we actually need and not swamp the market with vast amounts of unskilled and semi-skilled labour that reduces income for the majority of the population, greatly increases competition for housing, employment, healthcare, education and other social services.

And we should definitely not let anybody in that there isn't a job for or who can't support themselves straight away. And all the current parties after these elections now agree with that(or at least say they do). They just can't enforce it as it's against European law. We're not allowed to control immigration or our own borders and that's the main reason why UKIP won last week.