Punching Power Mechanics/Waist Pivot, hip rotation help.. Can you provide some help?

[Chris Nagel]

We've had some very comprehensive threads on the subject:
The Straight Right: http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ight-hand.html
The "Trebuchet" Hook: http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...tml#post418948

One of the key points besides the hinge-principle is to maximize the amount of weight transferred from one side to another through stance a la the old-timers such as Benny Leonard et al. On the other hand, a fighter with a contemporary squared-up stance, and worst one who leans onto their front leg would not be able to transfer much weight for their straight right as their right would become more of a pushing punch, e.g. Joe Frazier.

Getting your weight behind your punch is different than for instance if you'd hold out your elbow and then shift your weight over your left-leg land your elbow against a heavy bag. Rather than forgetting that your arms are there, think of them as the last link in the chain of punching movement. This goes back to what Grey was saying, i.e. the order, and the 'delay' mentioned in the aforementioned thread by Thomas. The hook is slung.

[mdef303]

Much thanks to all of you.

Thinking of my arms is the last in the chain in events is a nice pointer, as the the shoulder. I feel that the hips and shoulders should be relaxed as well, to provide a full rotation, if the hips are stiff, no rotation will occur. This however should not exclude the power coming from your legs.. I think its best describing it as, generate power from your legs, to twist your waist.. this will automatically bring your hips into the punch, and shift the weight.. if you can put your hips into the punch with them being relaxed, and torqueing your waist.. you should be good to go..

1 Legs = power
2 Swivel of the hips over the left leg (that causes the the foot pivot)(hips relaxed)
3 torque of the waist(over the left leg) through the center line causing your body to shift weight
4 arms relaxed, and snap the punch

the faster being able to do this in a fluid motion is sweet science.

[mdef303]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgGv5h_xin8

This is pretty good actually. He describes "find your half sit" "Find your balance".. It seems like when you do this, it puts you in optimal position, I tried it, and when I imagined a weight hanging from my head through my butt, and went into a half sit, and basically engaged my hips where they can swing relaxed, shift my weight from leg to leg.. . This improves your speed as well as power. Good stuff...

All welcome with their own personal pointers.

[Scrap]

Power comes from the Floor, its the floor that moves you. Poweris the balancing act between the Floor and Head coxxys and feet.

[SugarBoxing]

Can anyone provide some links to where I can read about the chain principle in boxing?

I think Jack Dempsey does not discuss it really

Does Haislet Edwin discuss it?

[Andre]

http://www.amazon.com/On-Fencing-Ald.../dp/188452804X

http://books.google.com.au/books/abo...AJ&redir_esc=y

Booktopia - Ringcraft, The Deluxe Edition by Jim Driscoll, 9780981020211. Buy this book online.


I dont think he mentions it,but you can add things up here. Great free book with some interesting info.

http://archive.org/details/Boxing

[StrictlySP]

Hi mdef303,
You wrote:

I think that the power comes from a quick pivot of the waist past the centerlin, which in results happens the foot pivot, acting as shock absorbers for the weight transfer.

You've touched upon a segment of what generates power. In totality, power comes from a kinetic chain that starts its sequential torque from the ground and progresses up the "chain" (in nanoseconds), which then concludes with the follow-through and associated retraction. To better appreciate this, what follows below is most of a post I wrote back in Dec 2007 on "The Straight Right Hand" thread that delineates this more thoroughly.

Take Care,
Lito

"Before, I delineate the specific body mechanics I advocate/teach for the rear straight punch (I'm left-handed, hence the generic terminology), I just want to establish what I'm going for with this punch and, in fact, all punches--effectiveness and efficiency. The bottom line to that end is focused POWER. Actually, power is a misnomer when it comes to fighting. FORCE is what we want. Force equals mass X acceleration. As such, in practical terms, it's all about putting as much body weight into/behind the punch as possible and doing so as fast as you can without sacrificing the body mechanics to achieve that objective.

Ah, though I'm a lefty, since the majority of those who'll read this are most likely right-handed, I'll delineate my biomechanical description as a righty.

STRAIGHT RIGHT HAND to the head
1. From an orthodox stance, push off the ball of your right foot and simultaneously take a short 30 to 45 degree "trigger step" to the left with your left foot.

2. Now, as you push off and take the trigger step to the left, transfer approximately 90 percent of your body weight over your left leg/foot and recognize/designate the left side of your body (i.e. left foot, left knee, left hip, and left shoulder) as being the "door hinge" side which serves as the axis of rotation for the punch. To promote this weight transfer and emphasis over the left leg, "dig" your left foot into the ground. NOTE: there should be a slight bend in your left knee (one trainer I know says the left knee should be relatively straight to establish and maintain a better "door hinge" axis) and your head should be directly over your left foot.

3. Immediately rotate your right hip (and only your right hip at this time) counterclockwise (to square up with your lead left hip) and pivot on the ball of your right foot counterclockwise allowing your right shoulder (which should be lagging behind for a millisecond) to recoil back like a slingshot retraction (myotatically stretching your right pectoral muscles in the process).

SUMMARY for #1, #2, and #3: Step BEFORE hip rotation, head over left foot, body weight over left foot, left side of body (foot, knee, hip, shoulder) is the "door hinge" axis, right hip-whip rotation/right ball-of-foot pivot, right shoulder recoil.

4. With your right shoulder recoiled back, and your right hip rotating a millisecond ahead of it, use this right hip counterclockwise rotation to generate and explosively propel your right shoulder in whip-like/slingshot fashion. As you are in the transitional process of doing this, simultaneously "shrug" your right shoulder convulsively (i.e. like a forward shoulder shrug barbell/dumbbell exercise) in a counterclockwise circle (i.e. going forward). Now, use this "hip-then-shoulder whip" generated momentum and sequential torque to explosively "shoot" your right fist straight to and through your opponent's jaw.

SUMMARY for #4: Hip-whip rotation BEFORE forward shoulder shrug and slingshot action, shoulder drive BEFORE hand propulsion, explosively "shoot" your right fist into and through the target.

5. As you are explosively "shooting" your right fist straight ahead to and through your opponent's jaw, simultaneously pull-in/retract your left elbow back to your left ribcage in a short, quick, convulsive manner. By doing this, you add to the acceleration of your right hand shooting forward to and through the target. It's a "push-pull" type of action similarly analogous to hand pedaling a bicycle with both hands. Keep in mind, depending on whether you are leading off with the straight right hand from a guarded position, sharpshooting, initiating a combo, being in the midst of a combo, or finishing off of a combo, your left hand should be up or pulled back to the jaw during this convulsive left elbow retraction.

SUMMARY for #5: Explosive "push-pull" action with the hands/arms.

6. As you are "shooting" your right fist towards the target, adhere to the "power line" (an imaginary line from shoulder to fist which optimally allows you to put your shoulder behind the punch) by purposefully not flaring your right elbow up and out. Instead, keep your right elbow pointed down as much as possible without interfering with the freedom of movement.

7. At point of impact with the target--ideally the jaw, your right arm should be approximately 3/4ths extended (i.e. your right elbow should still be slightly bent) to allow follow-through. Upon contact, "gouge" down into and through the target with your right fist (as if you are doing an inverse shoveling movement). This will be easily facilitated through the forward shoulder shrugging movement of your right shoulder. NOTE: if your right arm is fully extended at impact, the force you generated is dissipated with no follow-through potential. So, make impact while the right elbow is still bent.

8. Strike into and through the target and follow-through with an elliptical retraction of your right hand back to guard position (i.e. right hand by right cheek/jaw area).

SUMMARY for #6, #7, and #8: Adhere to the "power line;" striking through, "gouging" down, and "sinking" into the target upon contact. FOLLOW-THROUGH and retract right hand back to guard.

9. In certain instances, depending on whether or not your straight right hand is starting off or finishing a combo or is executed as a single shot, you can add even more body weight and "follow through" into your punch by allowing your rear right leg to "slide/glide" forward after contact with the target. Remember, most of your body weight should be centered over your left foot/leg, so this right leg movement will feel natural.

SUMMARY for #9: At certain times, "slide/glide" the rear right leg forward after contact.

*While I've broken down the body mechanics in a step-by-step process, be cognizant that the sequences are taking place either simultaneously or sequentially in millisecond spaces of time.

**RELAX. Focused relaxation promotes acceleration, acceleration promotes force, force promotes knockout "power." Don't tense up any unnecessary muscles. Being "smooth" helps being fast...

***Keep in mind, your chin should be tucked and your left hand up (or in the process of being pulled back) protecting the left side of your jaw during the execution.

****Upon contact, have your right fist in a horizontal palm-down position or a 45-degree inward-diagonal position NOT in a vertical fist position (which inhibits natural arm movement and pectoralis/latissimus dorsi/trapezius muscle recruitment/involvement in the punch).

*****The striking surface/contact point is subject to debate. Some like Jack Dempsey advocate the three-knuckle striking area (i.e. middle, ring, and pinkie finger knuckles), while others support the traditional two-knuckle striking area (i.e. index and middle finger knuckles). I'm more inclined towards a "three-knuckle" landing, but to me it's a moot point in the chaos of battle. Three knuckles, two knuckles, heck, with all the positional and movement variables that exist, I'm happy when my punches land solidly irregardless of which particular knuckles actually make contact. Anyway, play around with it and decide for yourself what you want to focus on.

******From initiation to completion, which will be very, very rapid, be sure to exhale in a short, sharp manner. Exhalation during execution is extremely important in contributing to the generation of force among a myriad of other beneficial things.

*******Finally, you should have violent intention when executing this or any punch. This mindset adds even more "depth" to the strike.

I'm betting some of you have noticed that I've deviated from the traditional "straight-in" (or "straight-out," depending on how you use the terminology)/straight-back" straight-line trajectory that is the gold standard when throwing a straight right hand. As you can surmise from my description, I do follow a straight-line trajectory from initiation to contact, but immediately thereafter, I "gouge down" into and through the target in a slightly downward elliptical trajectory as I follow through and retract my right hand back to guard position in that same path. Why did I change and do this? Well, even thought the traditional way works fine, this way works better. The short answer is that this movement produces additional torque that the other way doesn't which allows me to put even more body weight into my shot. Moreover, this movement facilitates slightly longer contact into and through the target increasing the amount of force absorbed by my opponent.

In regards to the simultaneous "push-pull" action I described in #5, this is really nothing new per se. It is something done naturally within the context of executing a straight right hand in the traditional sense. However, it is a movement that is often not accentuated conscientiously. Give it a try. You'll see that it does make a difference with torque."

[jms]

One of the key points besides the hinge-principle is to maximize the amount of weight transferred from one side to another through stance a la the old-timers such as Benny Leonard et al. On the other hand, a fighter with a contemporary squared-up stance, and worst one who leans onto their front leg would not be able to transfer much weight for their straight right as their right would become more of a pushing punch, e.g. Joe Frazier.

Getting your weight behind your punch is different than for instance if you'd hold out your elbow and then shift your weight over your left-leg land your elbow against a heavy bag. Rather than forgetting that your arms are there, think of them as the last link in the chain of punching movement. This goes back to what Grey was saying, i.e. the order, and the 'delay' mentioned in the aforementioned thread by Thomas. The hook is slung.

I've been taught that weight transfer isn't always the key to power. For punches like hooks and overhands, it adds more to the punch than it would for uppercuts or even straights. To be clear, what I'm saying is weight transfer will generate power in any punch but it isn't always the best way to do so. I believe there are distinct mechanics for each type of punch.

For uppercuts, they get the most power with almost no weight transfer. It's mostly hip extension without too much straightening of the knees, which relies on the weight being rooted on the corresponding foot.

Straights benefit from some weight transfer, but not enough to lose connection with the driving foot. If the driving foot (right foot for a right straight) is too far behind or doesn't have enough weight on it then there won't be enough connection to the ground. Plus shifting too much weight on the straight sacrifices distance because it makes your head come closer to the opponent than it needs to. Basically, they're more twist than shift.

Hooks get the most from weight transfer because they travel in a circular direction, which is the same as the trajectory of the hips. Overhands too, because the weight shift combined with dropping of the weight puts the shoulders in place to let the punch arc over a shoulder or glove.

Having a stance that starts with the weight back isn't only to facilitate maximum weight transfer, it's to make sure the rear foot is in position to generate power and the hips/shoulders have room to twist. Plus the head is kept at a safer distance. That's my understanding at least.

[greynotsoold]

You transfer your weight in front of your punch; if it is behind the punch, you are pushing and what you are trying for is concussive force. Like cracking a whip.

[God.in.my.corner]

If you use the "trigger step" with the jab (like the 1-2), how is it used? Do you do the trigger-step at the same time you jab or when the jab is retracting?

Thanks

[greynotsoold]

If you use the "trigger step" with the jab (like the 1-2), how is it used? Do you do the trigger-step at the same time you jab or when the jab is retracting?

Thanks

You want your hands and feet to be coordinated. When the left foot moves, so does the left hand.