Jet airliner shot down in Eastern Ukraine

[Beanz]

The evidence is mounting and pretty damning

Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash: Evidence mounting of pro-Russian link to attack - Europe - World - The Independent

Of Course the machine has swung into action

‘Anonymous International’ Leaks Kremlin’s Instructions to Russian TV · Global Voices

Don't kid yourself and think that the sheltering of Snowden means that Russia is some kind of champion of liberty

Russia cracks down on liberties as president Vladimir Putin’s popularity soars - World - The Boston Globe

[Gandalf]

We do not know for sure who shot down the plane. Russia has presented a case arguing the plane was being followed, it was flying over a war zone and government weapons had been moved. At the same time, rebels could have shot it down too. The truth is, we just don't know the answers and that is why the British and American media have been awful and out of control. 'It Putin....It Putin....Cameron: More sanctions!'. Are these people fucking serious? Yo Dave, did you forget Syria and Libya and your attempts for war there, ya cunt? 5 tr in debt, and fat Dave still thinks he matters. Pathetic.

There was no motivation or anything to gain by the rebels shooting down a plane. There is a lot to gain by the Ukrainies doing it and blaming the rebels. Let's not forget too that the BRICS proposed their alternative to the IMF a day before also. Basically the petrodollar is under attack and the role of the IMF is under attack. It is a very timely opportunity to demonise Putin, who is clearly a threat.

The problem for the absurd media and politicians now is that their lies don't work. People have plenty of other sources for news and they are credible sources. I honestly turn on the TV and just mock it constantly. It doesn't provide anything factual or useful. It simply says we need to deal with Putin. Very similar to Iraq.

Fuck them, they started a coup and then started killing people who wanted no part of it in the East. NATO has no right to be on Russias border and really America is trying to provoke a new Cuban missile crisis. The fact that they are collapsing economically, and don't even hide how they fund terrorists, nothing is beyond them. Right now the dollar is going down and the US elite are panicking.

Personally, I think we will discover that the Ukrainian government shot down the aircraft in an attempt to gain attention and sympathy and as a justification to wipe out the East who would be blamed. It is going to blow up in their faces and that US economic collapse is looking ever more likely.

[Beanflicker]

There was no motivation or anything to gain by the rebels shooting down a plane.

Yeah but isn't that making the assumption that they wanted to shoot down a civilian plane? In the leaked audio (not sure if that has been proven or disproven) they seemed very surprised that it was a civilian plane.

A week before this one, pro-Russian militants shot down a Ukrainian military plane and bragged about it, took pics and videos.

[Gandalf]

There was no motivation or anything to gain by the rebels shooting down a plane.

Yeah but isn't that making the assumption that they wanted to shoot down a civilian plane? In the leaked audio (not sure if that has been proven or disproven) they seemed very surprised that it was a civilian plane.

A week before this one, pro-Russian militants shot down a Ukrainian military plane and bragged about it, took pics and videos.

No planes should have been flying over there. It was almost as though they were being fed there and with jets to get them there. We know both sides could have shot, but the government had more of these weapons and had moved them.

You must always ask....who will gain from this? The guess about it says the Ukraine government, but when the facts come out that can change very easily. The Western tricks are always too obvious and it comes from a culture of employing dumb people who will just say the right things. They are decadent and sloppy. At least Russia plays in the real world, in terms of economy, military and diplomacy.

[Beanflicker]

You must always ask....who will gain from this?

Yeah but again that assumes that someone planned it, when most evidence I've seen points to pro-Russian militants gunning down a civilian plane that they mistook for a Ukrainian military or supply plane, the same kind that they openly gunned down a week before MH17.

Not everything has to be a deep conspiracy.

[Gandalf]

That isn't evidence and why I want an independent enquiry.

When it comes to a bankrupt country (US), the need for new raw materials etc and the backing of a coup, well there is no conspiracy.

Some countries have a history of false flags (Bin Laden/Afghanistan/Gulf of Tonkin/Iraq) etc. The US is almost on its last legs economically and they are being bold.

However, it looks like nobody believes them anymore. Since 9/11 just lots of lies and illegal wars, torture and rendition. People don't like that weirdness.

It isn't conspiracy, but when the Brics say we are having our system, that is a serious threat. For the next few years they will try every lie to demonise Putin, but of course ignore the horrors of Wall Street and the military industrial complex.

It's humility time for the US. Russia had it in the early 90's. America now needs to go through the same process. They could emerge better or else become like Puerto Rico.

[Beanflicker]

You seem to have a lot of emotional investment in it not being pro-Russian militants for whatever reason.

None of us know all the facts because we're not there and we're not directly involved. But when pro-Russian militants are shooting down planes and openly bragging about it a week before, and now they've openly shot down two more planes today... why is it so hard to believe the official line? That a civilian plane mistakenly wandered into the wrong airspace and the militants, who assumed it was a Ukrainian military plane (the kind they've openly been shooting out of the sky), opened fire on it. I just don't see what's so unbelievable about that account.

[Kirkland Laing]

That isn't evidence and why I want an independent enquiry.

When it comes to a bankrupt country (US), the need for new raw materials etc and the backing of a coup, well there is no conspiracy.

Some countries have a history of false flags (Bin Laden/Afghanistan/Gulf of Tonkin/Iraq) etc. The US is almost on its last legs economically and they are being bold.

However, it looks like nobody believes them anymore. Since 9/11 just lots of lies and illegal wars, torture and rendition. People don't like that weirdness.

It isn't conspiracy, but when the Brics say we are having our system, that is a serious threat. For the next few years they will try every lie to demonise Putin, but of course ignore the horrors of Wall Street and the military industrial complex.

It's humility time for the US. Russia had it in the early 90's. America now needs to go through the same process. They could emerge better or else become like Puerto Rico.

Miles this is just nuts mate. There is so much wrong in this post it's like a Lyle post. I don't have the time to go through it but for fuck's sake. Like Beanflicker said what we're being told is what obviously happened. Unless you believe that the US somehow managed to get Ukrainian rebels to post on twitter saying they'd done it. Even Putin isn't blaming America because of just how fucking nuts it is.