Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition

[walrus]

We can go back and fourth all we want but as fans we should be grateful we were alive in this era to see these guys fighting. In the end I think Manny is a far superior fighter, I know each fighter has a style until themselves but Floyd wouldn't go balls to the wall as Manny always does. Floyd would not fighter a fighter who consistently gives him trouble as JMM did Manny. If so Floyd would have taken on Cotto three months after the first fight. Manny New when he stepped in the ring against JMM it wasn't a gimme but so many if Floyd's fights were gimme. I think his rematch with his last opponent was more to fulfill his contract than to prove anything else. If Floyd gets the W with some controversy when has he ever given a shot about proving things to his fans. Floyd has no fans, only people who give him money. I think Manny has an entire different view on such things. One of our members here @pacfan often talks about how like is in the Philippines and how Manny was selling food on the streets to help his family survive. Someone else said comparing these two fighters is comparing apples and oranges.Tough times for Manny were avoiding starvation, tough times for Floyd were doing time for domestic abuse..

I have much more respect for Manny not only in boxing but in humanity. He is tough in ways that Floyd couldn't experience any longer.

To reiterate, I am glad I'm a boxing fan and have been able to pay overpriced numbers to see Floyd fight, absolutely love to see him do his thing but even more so when it comes to Manny. I always feel I'm seeing something beyond special with Manny. Sure he has some loses, but his record overall is mind blowing especially when you look where he came from. I have been left breathless after seeing Manny land combos like nothing I have seen before. He is beyond great and he doesn't need to tell us every five minutes. Manny v Pac will happen in 2015. I hear Mannys team is looking to steal Biber away from team money. If this does happen Manny v Pac may not happen as Beiber is the only thing keeping Floyd from beginning a full "blown" pedophile. Justin looks long enough where he fulfills Floyd's need for young boys to touch and penetrate but losing him from team money will force Floyd to capture what he really wants, eleven year old boys. Manny is going to rescue Beiber and get him the help he needs. Bahai

[imp]

We can go back and fourth all we want but as fans we should be grateful we were alive in this era to see these guys fighting. In the end I think Manny is a far superior fighter, I know each fighter has a style until themselves but Floyd wouldn't go balls to the wall as Manny always does. Floyd would not fighter a fighter who consistently gives him trouble as JMM did Manny. If so Floyd would have taken on Cotto three months after the first fight. Manny New when he stepped in the ring against JMM it wasn't a gimme but so many if Floyd's fights were gimme. I think his rematch with his last opponent was more to fulfill his contract than to prove anything else. If Floyd gets the W with some controversy when has he ever given a shot about proving things to his fans. Floyd has no fans, only people who give him money. I think Manny has an entire different view on such things. One of our members here @pacfan often talks about how like is in the Philippines and how Manny was selling food on the streets to help his family survive. Someone else said comparing these two fighters is comparing apples and oranges.Tough times for Manny were avoiding starvation, tough times for Floyd were doing time for domestic abuse..

I have much more respect for Manny not only in boxing but in humanity. He is tough in ways that Floyd couldn't experience any longer.

To reiterate, I am glad I'm a boxing fan and have been able to pay overpriced numbers to see Floyd fight, absolutely love to see him do his thing but even more so when it comes to Manny. I always feel I'm seeing something beyond special with Manny. Sure he has some loses, but his record overall is mind blowing especially when you look where he came from. I have been left breathless after seeing Manny land combos like nothing I have seen before. He is beyond great and he doesn't need to tell us every five minutes. Manny v Pac will happen in 2015. I hear Mannys team is looking to steal Biber away from team money. If this does happen Manny v Pac may not happen as Beiber is the only thing keeping Floyd from beginning a full "blown" pedophile. Justin looks long enough where he fulfills Floyd's need for young boys to touch and penetrate but losing him from team money will force Floyd to capture what he really wants, eleven year old boys. Manny is going to rescue Beiber and get him the help he needs. Bahai

This post ruined all the good ones you might have made.

When someone has to say this fighter was selling food on the streets and the other was not is really clutching those straws.

Smh

[Beanflicker]

Floyd would not fighter a fighter who consistently gives him trouble as JMM did Manny.

Castillo gave him hell and arguably beat him... rematched.

Maidana gave him hell and came very close... rematched.

When you're talk about who was the most exciting fighter, Manny wins by a landslide. It's not even close.

When you're talking about who the superior fighter was and who had the superior career, it was Floyd Mayweather. You'd have to be crazy to argue with either of those facts.

[Beanflicker]

I see a lot of times people factor in excitement into how great a fighter was, and that's something I never understood.

People seem to have trouble grasping the concept that excitement can often be the result of flaws in a fighter, and being boring is often the result of a fighter being so great that his fights aren't competitive.

[imp]

Roy jones had both.

He was exciting and occasionally boring when he carried opponents.

This thread is about opponents so lets put floyd and mannys last 3 opponents in a boxing competition...who wins and why?

Is anyone happy to discuss in detail mannys losses or will we continue to duck that question like floyd is ducking manny.

"Imp, stop talking about losses!
Ali was a beaten fighter and he is the greatest!"

Manny is no ali.

Duran..yes..minus the quit in his heart.

[mikeeod]

Roy jones had both.

He was exciting and occasionally boring when he carried opponents.

This thread is about opponents so lets put floyd and mannys last 3 opponents in a boxing competition...who wins and why?

Is anyone happy to discuss in detail mannys losses or will we continue to duck that question like floyd is ducking manny.

"Imp, stop talking about losses!
Ali was a beaten fighter and he is the greatest!"

Manny is no ali.

Duran..yes..minus the quit in his heart.

I will talk about the losses, I think it will be enlightening. What's on your mind?

[imp]

Roy jones had both.

He was exciting and occasionally boring when he carried opponents.

This thread is about opponents so lets put floyd and mannys last 3 opponents in a boxing competition...who wins and why?

Is anyone happy to discuss in detail mannys losses or will we continue to duck that question like floyd is ducking manny.

"Imp, stop talking about losses!
Ali was a beaten fighter and he is the greatest!"

Manny is no ali.

Duran..yes..minus the quit in his heart.

I will talk about the losses, I think it will be enlightening. What's on your mind?

On my mind right now is that I wish I never had work in the morning and Im thinking whether I should go downstairs and finish off that last bit of whole nut in the fridge whilst watching four rooms.

On boxing terms and manny pac lets start of with RUSTICO..

RUSTICO

3rd ko.
Nothing to see here.
Early in his career but he learned from an early age that he had flaws which evantually made him better.

DRAW 1

SANCHEZ

Headbutt stopped fight.
No one did enough to win even with sanchez being DOCKED TWO POINTS.

DRAW 2

MARQUEZ

He ko marquez x3 times in the first round and marquez still comes back to get a draw..what on earth can you defend about that?!!

MORALES

Outboxed and judges gave morales unanimous decision..shall we blame floyd for this?

BRADLEY 1

The first fight was close and manny looked like he won but I could see how the judge could have given it to bradley.

My view is that in their last encounter bradley got injured again but didnt really want to make to much noise about it as the death threats and the decent payday was enough to mute his opinion this time round.


MARQUEZ

4 great fights but the last one was no lucky punch and that was the 2nd ko of the evening that nearly ended his career..no lucky punch..it was timed and countered and all the advantages were with manny including weight, age, power and decision making and the camp really thought they had marquez number this time.

So lets not blame floyd for all the above but credit these fighters for getting the best of pacman and just being to good for him at the time.

Floyd would beat every single one of these guys and we all know he would..he beats every single era of manny pac and you secretly know it.

[mikeeod]

Roy jones had both.

He was exciting and occasionally boring when he carried opponents.

This thread is about opponents so lets put floyd and mannys last 3 opponents in a boxing competition...who wins and why?

Is anyone happy to discuss in detail mannys losses or will we continue to duck that question like floyd is ducking manny.

"Imp, stop talking about losses!
Ali was a beaten fighter and he is the greatest!"

Manny is no ali.

Duran..yes..minus the quit in his heart.

I will talk about the losses, I think it will be enlightening. What's on your mind?

On my mind right now is that I wish I never had work in the morning and Im thinking whether I should go downstairs and finish off that last bit of whole nut in the fridge whilst watching four rooms.

On boxing terms and manny pac lets start of with RUSTICO..

RUSTICO

3rd ko.
Nothing to see here.
Early in his career but he learned from an early age that he had flaws which evantually made him better.

DRAW 1

SANCHEZ

Headbutt stopped fight.
No one did enough to win even with sanchez being DOCKED TWO POINTS.

DRAW 2

MARQUEZ

He ko marquez x3 times in the first round and marquez still comes back to get a draw..what on earth can you defend about that?!!

MORALES

Outboxed and judges gave morales unanimous decision..shall we blame floyd for this?

BRADLEY 1

The first fight was close and manny looked like he won but I could see how the judge could have given it to bradley.

My view is that in their last encounter bradley got injured again but didnt really want to make to much noise about it as the death threats and the decent payday was enough to mute his opinion this time round.


MARQUEZ

4 great fights but the last one was no lucky punch and that was the 2nd ko of the evening that nearly ended his career..no lucky punch..it was timed and countered and all the advantages were with manny including weight, age, power and decision making and the camp really thought they had marquez number this time.

So lets not blame floyd for all the above but credit these fighters for getting the best of pacman and just being to good for him at the time.

Floyd would beat every single one of these guys and we all know he would..he beats every single era of manny pac and you secretly know it.

Discussing the losses/draws:
JMM: This was a great fight. I don't see the need to make any excuses or that Manny would need it. This was the first match up between two ATGs and it was a phenomenal fight. Manny overwhelmed him early and JMM showed his class by putting on a counterpunching clinic. Had one of the three judges correctly ruled that first round a 10-6 round, Manny would've won by decision. I find it odd that you would think I would blame Floyd for anything to do with that, or that I would somehow feel that it was a bad performance by Manny. I didn't think Tommy Hearns was a bum or needed excuses when he lost to Leonard, and Manny vs. JMM #1 was closer than that. I commend Manny for taking JMM on at that point when many other fighters were avoiding him.

Morales: Manny was coming up for that fight, Morales only had one disputed loss to fellow ATG Barrera at that point, and again Manny put on a gutsy performance and lost a close decision to a fellow ATG. I don't see the need to make an excuse for him. I feel that Manny performed better in his fights vs. fellow ATGs JMM and Morales than Floyd did vs. Jose Luis Castillo. I'm just being honest when I say that. The decision was close and Manny had zero quit in him and during his prime Morales was a beast (and again, Manny was moving up to fight the best guy available).

Bradley: If you give that first fight to Bradley, or even suggest it was close, you don't have much credibility in my book. Again, I can take some of your comments seriously, but Manny dominated Bradley, who was undefeated and P4P ranked at the time. No need whatsoever for an excuse of any kind. The only thing that disappointed me about Manny in this fight is that he didn't go for the K.O. Again, it was impressive that Manny actively pursued a fight with a younger, larger (Manny was fighting at 147 longer but Bradley is the bigger man) and undefeated champion in his prime.

JMM #4: I don't think it was a lucky punch, per se, but I do feel that Manny was overwhelming JMM and just got too aggressive. It happens in a fight sometimes. It was a great punch and great win for JMM. Manny was punishing him prior, despite the phenomenal KD from JMM in the third. Look at JMM's face at the time of the stoppage, he was busted up pretty good and Manny was pushing HARD for that KO. Could he have played it safe and tried to outbox and out hustle him? Sure. I love the guy's desire to be great/tenacity and how he tried to erase all doubt and score the knockout. JMM timed him and he paid the price though. Still, much like Hearns vs. Hagler, I don't think that stoppage is horrible for Manny. If you fight long enough against the toughest competition available, it is going to happen.

Floyd vs. those who beat Manny: I agree with you, I think that Floyd, who started at 130 and was naturally larger than JMM and Morales would have beaten them, and I feel that while Bradley would've given Floyd trouble (I would argue that due to style match up more trouble than he gave Manny), Floyd would've beaten him as well (unless he had the same judges against him that Manny had).

Floyd vs. Manny: Complex question. I think Floyd is the better fighter, in that he has MUCH more skill, is more versatile and has a much smarter boxing mind in that ring and is the naturally larger man. I would definitely make Floyd the favorite in that fight. That being said, Manny has a VERY good chance to upset Floyd for a couple of reasons. 1) Style match up. Floyd Sr. has gone on record numerous times throughout Floyd's career and said he should NEVER fight a southpaw. Additionally, Manny's speed of hand and foot and ability to move in and out from odd angles would bother Floyd. Think of the Judah fight, but understand that Manny is much more consistent throughout the fight and doesn't gas like Judah. Manny's workrate would also trouble Floyd. Floyd has superb defense, and manny would miss a ton of shots but his high volume may keep Floyd defensive and allow Manny to hustle his way to a win. Punching power. While I think Floyd has a solid chin and good recuperative ability, some of Manny's punches break bones (orbital bones...etc.), it would be interesting to see how Floyd would overcome severe damage in a fight against a savage like Manny. 2) Manny will get "up" for Floyd. Some guys just have a "thing" for a specific fighter. Evander for Tyson is an example. JMM is that guy for Manny. Barrera was that guy for Morales. It is hard to explain but if you ever competed you know what I'm talking about. There is a natural mental aspect where fighter "A" has a chip on his shoulder for fighter "B". They also see something that they are just certain they can capitalize on, and their styles just naturally give that other fighter a hard time. I have a feeling Manny will be that guy for Floyd. I don't see Manny as motivated for guys like Bradley, JMM for the fourth or fifth time, Danny Garcia...etc. For Mayweather I think you would see him fight the fight of his life. Even if he beats Floyd, I don't necessarily think that would make him the better fighter, as I don't think Floyd will be as "up" for Manny.

[mikeeod]

I see a lot of times people factor in excitement into how great a fighter was, and that's something I never understood.

People seem to have trouble grasping the concept that excitement can often be the result of flaws in a fighter, and being boring is often the result of a fighter being so great that his fights aren't competitive.

I don't know, some might argue that while boxing is the sweet science, it is still a fight and not a defensive contest. I would argue that true skill is being able to maintain a defense while attacking and dominating for the stoppage. I don't think Rigo is more skilled than Hagler was, or more dominant prime vs prime, but he is WAY more boring. I think the more skilled you are, and the more determined for greatness you are, the higher the chances you will be exciting. Think Ricardo Lopez, Roy Jones, Hearns, Duran, Robinson, Leonard...etc., all of those guys were dominant, defensively sound fighters who were exciting and stopped good n great opposition.

I'm a Floyd fan. Love how slick he is, his work ethic, dedication...etc. my one knock on Floyd, however, is that many times he has had a guy outclassed and been content to just win on points. Additionally, when u talk about destroying a guy in the ring and dominating them like never before...etc., it looks bad to go out and shoe shine and pot shot like he did vs Oscar and Baldomir. Say you will win or outbox them, but don't promise nonstop action and then avoid engaging. Just doesn't look good.

[mikeeod]

Floyd would not fighter a fighter who consistently gives him trouble as JMM did Manny.

Castillo gave him hell and arguably beat him... rematched.

Maidana gave him hell and came very close... rematched.

When you're talk about who was the most exciting fighter, Manny wins by a landslide. It's not even close.

When you're talking about who the superior fighter was and who had the superior career, it was Floyd Mayweather. You'd have to be crazy to argue with either of those facts.

I disagree, so I must be crazy. I think you are correct in stating that Floyd is the better fighter, you won't get any argument out of me on that one. I disagree that Floyd had the superior career. I value quality of opposition and big wins more than avoiding losses and big events.

Manny electrified the sport. Floyd has risen the awareness of the sport to the general public, but more for novelty act reasons. The fans Manny attracted watch for his excitement value, both in how he fights and by taking on TOUGH competition. People watch Floyd, more people in certain instances than Manny, but more for the hope that he gets beat.

I would say right now that their careers are pretty even, but I don't think it is as crazy as you try to make it seem to favor Manny's career. The fact that you try so hard to say that it shouldn't be a topic just makes you seem like a completely biased fanboy. You lose credibility with the valid points you make...

[pacfan]

We can go back and fourth all we want but as fans we should be grateful we were alive in this era to see these guys fighting. In the end I think Manny is a far superior fighter, I know each fighter has a style until themselves but Floyd wouldn't go balls to the wall as Manny always does. Floyd would not fighter a fighter who consistently gives him trouble as JMM did Manny. If so Floyd would have taken on Cotto three months after the first fight. Manny New when he stepped in the ring against JMM it wasn't a gimme but so many if Floyd's fights were gimme. I think his rematch with his last opponent was more to fulfill his contract than to prove anything else. If Floyd gets the W with some controversy when has he ever given a shot about proving things to his fans. Floyd has no fans, only people who give him money. I think Manny has an entire different view on such things. One of our members here @pacfan often talks about how like is in the Philippines and how Manny was selling food on the streets to help his family survive. Someone else said comparing these two fighters is comparing apples and oranges.Tough times for Manny were avoiding starvation, tough times for Floyd were doing time for domestic abuse..

I have much more respect for Manny not only in boxing but in humanity. He is tough in ways that Floyd couldn't experience any longer.

To reiterate, I am glad I'm a boxing fan and have been able to pay overpriced numbers to see Floyd fight, absolutely love to see him do his thing but even more so when it comes to Manny. I always feel I'm seeing something beyond special with Manny. Sure he has some loses, but his record overall is mind blowing especially when you look where he came from. I have been left breathless after seeing Manny land combos like nothing I have seen before. He is beyond great and he doesn't need to tell us every five minutes. Manny v Pac will happen in 2015. I hear Mannys team is looking to steal Biber away from team money. If this does happen Manny v Pac may not happen as Beiber is the only thing keeping Floyd from beginning a full "blown" pedophile. Justin looks long enough where he fulfills Floyd's need for young boys to touch and penetrate but losing him from team money will force Floyd to capture what he really wants, eleven year old boys. Manny is going to rescue Beiber and get him the help he needs. Bahai

Nice post, buds, I couldn't have said it any better.

[SlimTrae]

It's hard for me to say Floyd has cherry picked his way for straight 18 years.

My knock on his competiton is : fighting Zab after he lost to Baldomir.
Not fighting Paul Williams or Antonio Margarito @ WW win they were on the winning side of their careers.

I respect him for 18 years:1 knockdown ( his glove scraped the canvas)
Beat undefeated fighters: Diego Corrales, Ricky Hatton & Canelo

Defeated Mosley after Shane mugged Margarito
+ His last 4-5 fights came against fighters all in their 20's: Ortiz, Guerrero, Canelo & Maidana

My knock with Pacquiao was fighting David Diaz at LW, but not undefeated Juan Diaz (JMM did) or the guy who beat Juan Diaz (Nate Campbell) or the linear champ at the time Casamayor (JMM did) or then undefeated Michael Katsidis (JMM)

@ the time it looked like JMM was chasing Pac UP in weight, while cleaning out divisions.

I totally blame Arum as IMO Pac would fight anyone, but he fought more catchweights than a mutha.

Today they claimed he has won titles in 8 divisions- BUT if you look at what he weighed fight night -not the weigh in against MAB in 03' it was 138, then years later against Margarito @ catchweight it was 147.

How in the hell does a man win 8 different weight classes while coming in between 138-147 from 2003-2014? Catchweighting his ass all the way to the Boxing Hall of Fame.

I do respect Pac for the way he ends fights. No question marks.

In conclusion: Morales outboxed him fight one & busted him up-
JMM & he fought like Frazier-Ali: no definitive winner, rather two guys who know each other too well for a clear winner.

His best win to me is over a young undefeated Bradley- As Hatton proved China chin with Jurango and even stopped by moderate puncher PBF.
Pac totally outclassed Margarito and Rios, great wins over (mediocre fighters)

Floyd hands down has the best career, best resume and fought them more on their terms, while Pac beat most of hs fighters at catchweights, or after they recently lost.

Pac is a great fighter, while Floyd has a great record. Somehow they both cancel each other out..
as they both have question marks. (sorry 4 the long post)

[Beanflicker]

Like with any topic, most people believe what they want to believe and either choose to not look at facts and think critically, or they're incapable of real critical thinking. Most people hate Mayweather and want to believe he's overrated, that he's a coward, that he carefully ducked and hand-picked his way to success, ect. Ok, right, the guy who's gone 18 years undefeated and spent 16 years fighting on a championship level stinks and would have been average in any other era. Cool. :roll eyes:

Floyd's been opportunistic with opponents at times for sure, but to act like that is something unique to Floyd is just disingenuous. Guys have been doing it forever, that's why they have managers and handlers choosing their fights.

[mikeeod]

Like with any topic, most people believe what they want to believe and either choose to not look at facts and think critically, or they're incapable of real critical thinking. Most people hate Mayweather and want to believe he's overrated, that he's a coward, that he carefully ducked and hand-picked his way to success, ect. Ok, right, the guy who's gone 18 years undefeated and spent 16 years fighting on a championship level stinks and would have been average in any other era. Cool. :roll eyes:

Floyd's been opportunistic with opponents at times for sure, but to act like that is something unique to Floyd is just disingenuous. Guys have been doing it forever, that's why they have managers and handlers choosing their fights.

You seem like a good guy who is pretty smart, so don't take this as a personal attack or bashing you in any way. I feel like the majority of Floyd fans are hyper sensitive and act like the guy is untouchable or above critcism. I can say that Floyd is an ATG, phenomenal fighter, but disagree that he is the GOAT or fought better comp than his contemporaries and Floyd fans freak. It goes from what I said to me thinking he's a bum who ducks everyone and a coward with a glass jaw. That is what kills the discussions, people just try to completely distort what you say in an attempt to make your points invalid...

[ruthless rocco]

Floyd is the GOAT in the business of boxing. Undeniable fact!