Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition

[Beanflicker]

I see a lot of times people factor in excitement into how great a fighter was, and that's something I never understood.

People seem to have trouble grasping the concept that excitement can often be the result of flaws in a fighter, and being boring is often the result of a fighter being so great that his fights aren't competitive.

[mikeeod]

Floyd would not fighter a fighter who consistently gives him trouble as JMM did Manny.

Castillo gave him hell and arguably beat him... rematched.

Maidana gave him hell and came very close... rematched.

When you're talk about who was the most exciting fighter, Manny wins by a landslide. It's not even close.

When you're talking about who the superior fighter was and who had the superior career, it was Floyd Mayweather. You'd have to be crazy to argue with either of those facts.

I disagree, so I must be crazy. I think you are correct in stating that Floyd is the better fighter, you won't get any argument out of me on that one. I disagree that Floyd had the superior career. I value quality of opposition and big wins more than avoiding losses and big events.

Manny electrified the sport. Floyd has risen the awareness of the sport to the general public, but more for novelty act reasons. The fans Manny attracted watch for his excitement value, both in how he fights and by taking on TOUGH competition. People watch Floyd, more people in certain instances than Manny, but more for the hope that he gets beat.

I would say right now that their careers are pretty even, but I don't think it is as crazy as you try to make it seem to favor Manny's career. The fact that you try so hard to say that it shouldn't be a topic just makes you seem like a completely biased fanboy. You lose credibility with the valid points you make...

[imp]

Roy jones had both.

He was exciting and occasionally boring when he carried opponents.

This thread is about opponents so lets put floyd and mannys last 3 opponents in a boxing competition...who wins and why?

Is anyone happy to discuss in detail mannys losses or will we continue to duck that question like floyd is ducking manny.

"Imp, stop talking about losses!
Ali was a beaten fighter and he is the greatest!"

Manny is no ali.

Duran..yes..minus the quit in his heart.

[mikeeod]

I see a lot of times people factor in excitement into how great a fighter was, and that's something I never understood.

People seem to have trouble grasping the concept that excitement can often be the result of flaws in a fighter, and being boring is often the result of a fighter being so great that his fights aren't competitive.

I don't know, some might argue that while boxing is the sweet science, it is still a fight and not a defensive contest. I would argue that true skill is being able to maintain a defense while attacking and dominating for the stoppage. I don't think Rigo is more skilled than Hagler was, or more dominant prime vs prime, but he is WAY more boring. I think the more skilled you are, and the more determined for greatness you are, the higher the chances you will be exciting. Think Ricardo Lopez, Roy Jones, Hearns, Duran, Robinson, Leonard...etc., all of those guys were dominant, defensively sound fighters who were exciting and stopped good n great opposition.

I'm a Floyd fan. Love how slick he is, his work ethic, dedication...etc. my one knock on Floyd, however, is that many times he has had a guy outclassed and been content to just win on points. Additionally, when u talk about destroying a guy in the ring and dominating them like never before...etc., it looks bad to go out and shoe shine and pot shot like he did vs Oscar and Baldomir. Say you will win or outbox them, but don't promise nonstop action and then avoid engaging. Just doesn't look good.

[mikeeod]

Roy jones had both.

He was exciting and occasionally boring when he carried opponents.

This thread is about opponents so lets put floyd and mannys last 3 opponents in a boxing competition...who wins and why?

Is anyone happy to discuss in detail mannys losses or will we continue to duck that question like floyd is ducking manny.

"Imp, stop talking about losses!
Ali was a beaten fighter and he is the greatest!"

Manny is no ali.

Duran..yes..minus the quit in his heart.

I will talk about the losses, I think it will be enlightening. What's on your mind?

[imp]

Roy jones had both.

He was exciting and occasionally boring when he carried opponents.

This thread is about opponents so lets put floyd and mannys last 3 opponents in a boxing competition...who wins and why?

Is anyone happy to discuss in detail mannys losses or will we continue to duck that question like floyd is ducking manny.

"Imp, stop talking about losses!
Ali was a beaten fighter and he is the greatest!"

Manny is no ali.

Duran..yes..minus the quit in his heart.

I will talk about the losses, I think it will be enlightening. What's on your mind?

On my mind right now is that I wish I never had work in the morning and Im thinking whether I should go downstairs and finish off that last bit of whole nut in the fridge whilst watching four rooms.

On boxing terms and manny pac lets start of with RUSTICO..

RUSTICO

3rd ko.
Nothing to see here.
Early in his career but he learned from an early age that he had flaws which evantually made him better.

DRAW 1

SANCHEZ

Headbutt stopped fight.
No one did enough to win even with sanchez being DOCKED TWO POINTS.

DRAW 2

MARQUEZ

He ko marquez x3 times in the first round and marquez still comes back to get a draw..what on earth can you defend about that?!!

MORALES

Outboxed and judges gave morales unanimous decision..shall we blame floyd for this?

BRADLEY 1

The first fight was close and manny looked like he won but I could see how the judge could have given it to bradley.

My view is that in their last encounter bradley got injured again but didnt really want to make to much noise about it as the death threats and the decent payday was enough to mute his opinion this time round.


MARQUEZ

4 great fights but the last one was no lucky punch and that was the 2nd ko of the evening that nearly ended his career..no lucky punch..it was timed and countered and all the advantages were with manny including weight, age, power and decision making and the camp really thought they had marquez number this time.

So lets not blame floyd for all the above but credit these fighters for getting the best of pacman and just being to good for him at the time.

Floyd would beat every single one of these guys and we all know he would..he beats every single era of manny pac and you secretly know it.

[mikeeod]

Roy jones had both.

He was exciting and occasionally boring when he carried opponents.

This thread is about opponents so lets put floyd and mannys last 3 opponents in a boxing competition...who wins and why?

Is anyone happy to discuss in detail mannys losses or will we continue to duck that question like floyd is ducking manny.

"Imp, stop talking about losses!
Ali was a beaten fighter and he is the greatest!"

Manny is no ali.

Duran..yes..minus the quit in his heart.

I will talk about the losses, I think it will be enlightening. What's on your mind?

On my mind right now is that I wish I never had work in the morning and Im thinking whether I should go downstairs and finish off that last bit of whole nut in the fridge whilst watching four rooms.

On boxing terms and manny pac lets start of with RUSTICO..

RUSTICO

3rd ko.
Nothing to see here.
Early in his career but he learned from an early age that he had flaws which evantually made him better.

DRAW 1

SANCHEZ

Headbutt stopped fight.
No one did enough to win even with sanchez being DOCKED TWO POINTS.

DRAW 2

MARQUEZ

He ko marquez x3 times in the first round and marquez still comes back to get a draw..what on earth can you defend about that?!!

MORALES

Outboxed and judges gave morales unanimous decision..shall we blame floyd for this?

BRADLEY 1

The first fight was close and manny looked like he won but I could see how the judge could have given it to bradley.

My view is that in their last encounter bradley got injured again but didnt really want to make to much noise about it as the death threats and the decent payday was enough to mute his opinion this time round.


MARQUEZ

4 great fights but the last one was no lucky punch and that was the 2nd ko of the evening that nearly ended his career..no lucky punch..it was timed and countered and all the advantages were with manny including weight, age, power and decision making and the camp really thought they had marquez number this time.

So lets not blame floyd for all the above but credit these fighters for getting the best of pacman and just being to good for him at the time.

Floyd would beat every single one of these guys and we all know he would..he beats every single era of manny pac and you secretly know it.

Discussing the losses/draws:
JMM: This was a great fight. I don't see the need to make any excuses or that Manny would need it. This was the first match up between two ATGs and it was a phenomenal fight. Manny overwhelmed him early and JMM showed his class by putting on a counterpunching clinic. Had one of the three judges correctly ruled that first round a 10-6 round, Manny would've won by decision. I find it odd that you would think I would blame Floyd for anything to do with that, or that I would somehow feel that it was a bad performance by Manny. I didn't think Tommy Hearns was a bum or needed excuses when he lost to Leonard, and Manny vs. JMM #1 was closer than that. I commend Manny for taking JMM on at that point when many other fighters were avoiding him.

Morales: Manny was coming up for that fight, Morales only had one disputed loss to fellow ATG Barrera at that point, and again Manny put on a gutsy performance and lost a close decision to a fellow ATG. I don't see the need to make an excuse for him. I feel that Manny performed better in his fights vs. fellow ATGs JMM and Morales than Floyd did vs. Jose Luis Castillo. I'm just being honest when I say that. The decision was close and Manny had zero quit in him and during his prime Morales was a beast (and again, Manny was moving up to fight the best guy available).

Bradley: If you give that first fight to Bradley, or even suggest it was close, you don't have much credibility in my book. Again, I can take some of your comments seriously, but Manny dominated Bradley, who was undefeated and P4P ranked at the time. No need whatsoever for an excuse of any kind. The only thing that disappointed me about Manny in this fight is that he didn't go for the K.O. Again, it was impressive that Manny actively pursued a fight with a younger, larger (Manny was fighting at 147 longer but Bradley is the bigger man) and undefeated champion in his prime.

JMM #4: I don't think it was a lucky punch, per se, but I do feel that Manny was overwhelming JMM and just got too aggressive. It happens in a fight sometimes. It was a great punch and great win for JMM. Manny was punishing him prior, despite the phenomenal KD from JMM in the third. Look at JMM's face at the time of the stoppage, he was busted up pretty good and Manny was pushing HARD for that KO. Could he have played it safe and tried to outbox and out hustle him? Sure. I love the guy's desire to be great/tenacity and how he tried to erase all doubt and score the knockout. JMM timed him and he paid the price though. Still, much like Hearns vs. Hagler, I don't think that stoppage is horrible for Manny. If you fight long enough against the toughest competition available, it is going to happen.

Floyd vs. those who beat Manny: I agree with you, I think that Floyd, who started at 130 and was naturally larger than JMM and Morales would have beaten them, and I feel that while Bradley would've given Floyd trouble (I would argue that due to style match up more trouble than he gave Manny), Floyd would've beaten him as well (unless he had the same judges against him that Manny had).

Floyd vs. Manny: Complex question. I think Floyd is the better fighter, in that he has MUCH more skill, is more versatile and has a much smarter boxing mind in that ring and is the naturally larger man. I would definitely make Floyd the favorite in that fight. That being said, Manny has a VERY good chance to upset Floyd for a couple of reasons. 1) Style match up. Floyd Sr. has gone on record numerous times throughout Floyd's career and said he should NEVER fight a southpaw. Additionally, Manny's speed of hand and foot and ability to move in and out from odd angles would bother Floyd. Think of the Judah fight, but understand that Manny is much more consistent throughout the fight and doesn't gas like Judah. Manny's workrate would also trouble Floyd. Floyd has superb defense, and manny would miss a ton of shots but his high volume may keep Floyd defensive and allow Manny to hustle his way to a win. Punching power. While I think Floyd has a solid chin and good recuperative ability, some of Manny's punches break bones (orbital bones...etc.), it would be interesting to see how Floyd would overcome severe damage in a fight against a savage like Manny. 2) Manny will get "up" for Floyd. Some guys just have a "thing" for a specific fighter. Evander for Tyson is an example. JMM is that guy for Manny. Barrera was that guy for Morales. It is hard to explain but if you ever competed you know what I'm talking about. There is a natural mental aspect where fighter "A" has a chip on his shoulder for fighter "B". They also see something that they are just certain they can capitalize on, and their styles just naturally give that other fighter a hard time. I have a feeling Manny will be that guy for Floyd. I don't see Manny as motivated for guys like Bradley, JMM for the fourth or fifth time, Danny Garcia...etc. For Mayweather I think you would see him fight the fight of his life. Even if he beats Floyd, I don't necessarily think that would make him the better fighter, as I don't think Floyd will be as "up" for Manny.

[Silkeyjoe]

Comparing Manny and Floyd is like comparing Floyd to fighters from different eras, they just aint gonna fight and we dont really know who would win. Flod is big fav but Ive always maintained speed and movement could cause Floyd to struggle. Thats why I give Khan a great chance against him, a better chance than I would give him of beating Pac.

As for Floyds opposition being much superior to Pacs well if we look at their last 7.

Floyd has Mosly who was well past it, Ortiz who is noy good, Cotto who got obliterated by Pac (easier than Floyd did) Guerrero who again is average, Alavarez (his best opponent) who I again dont rate at that level as I feel he should have lost to Lara and anyone strugling with Trout isnt going to be a match for Floyd and then Maidana twice who in my opinoin was not worthy of a fight with Floyd once let alone twice.

Pac has Margarito nothing special but is as good as Maidana, Mosely shot, Marquez as good as anyone on the floyds list, Bradley twice again as good as anyone on Floyds list and Rios who is just shit.

Mosely just beat the monster margacheato and floyd schooled him.
Manny beat a shot paycheck moseley.

Floyd ko a prime undefeated hatton,
Pac ko a shot defeated hatton.

Ortiz is better than rios
Rios is shit (i agree)

Pac beat a catchweight cotto (good win)
Floyd beat a cotto at his weight.

Maidana would beat margacheato and beats all of pacs opponents bar cotto (possibly)

Canelo would beat all of pacs opponents!
Pac wouldnt even entertain a canelo fight.

This back and forth could go on for ages but no matter how you look at it whether its an inch or a mile..winning is winning...and floyd shines in the above.

Floyd would easily beat marquez and bradley and everyone knows that!!

Ortiz lost to Lopez who is as bad as they come at top level. Rios would beat Ortiz because Ortiz cant box smart and he has no chin. Pac beat Hatton at Hattons proper weight and didnt make him step up to a weight class he wasnt strong in. Canelo wouldnt beat Marquez or Bradley especially if he was weight drained like he was against Floyd. He just isnt that good at all. Maidana couldnt beat Kotelnik or Khan and struggled with a shot Morales. Again he aint coming close to beating Bradley or Marquez. Stop being a twat.

[imp]

Comparing Manny and Floyd is like comparing Floyd to fighters from different eras, they just aint gonna fight and we dont really know who would win. Flod is big fav but Ive always maintained speed and movement could cause Floyd to struggle. Thats why I give Khan a great chance against him, a better chance than I would give him of beating Pac.

As for Floyds opposition being much superior to Pacs well if we look at their last 7.

Floyd has Mosly who was well past it, Ortiz who is noy good, Cotto who got obliterated by Pac (easier than Floyd did) Guerrero who again is average, Alavarez (his best opponent) who I again dont rate at that level as I feel he should have lost to Lara and anyone strugling with Trout isnt going to be a match for Floyd and then Maidana twice who in my opinoin was not worthy of a fight with Floyd once let alone twice.

Pac has Margarito nothing special but is as good as Maidana, Mosely shot, Marquez as good as anyone on the floyds list, Bradley twice again as good as anyone on Floyds list and Rios who is just shit.

Mosely just beat the monster margacheato and floyd schooled him.
Manny beat a shot paycheck moseley.

Floyd ko a prime undefeated hatton,
Pac ko a shot defeated hatton.

Ortiz is better than rios
Rios is shit (i agree)

Pac beat a catchweight cotto (good win)
Floyd beat a cotto at his weight.

Maidana would beat margacheato and beats all of pacs opponents bar cotto (possibly)

Canelo would beat all of pacs opponents!
Pac wouldnt even entertain a canelo fight.

This back and forth could go on for ages but no matter how you look at it whether its an inch or a mile..winning is winning...and floyd shines in the above.

Floyd would easily beat marquez and bradley and everyone knows that!!

Ortiz lost to Lopez who is as bad as they come at top level. Rios would beat Ortiz because Ortiz cant box smart and he has no chin. Pac beat Hatton at Hattons proper weight and didnt make him step up to a weight class he wasnt strong in. Canelo wouldnt beat Marquez or Bradley especially if he was weight drained like he was against Floyd. He just isnt that good at all. Maidana couldnt beat Kotelnik or Khan and struggled with a shot Morales. Again he aint coming close to beating Bradley or Marquez. Stop being a twat.

Mikeeod makes a much better arguement than you silky joe.

It was only a few threads ago when every saddo member exposed you for calling marquez win against pac a lucky punch.

No one is saying pac is not a great fighter..im merely pointing out that floyd would never loose to those opponents and is the more complete fighter.

Pac would be "up" to fight floyd but isnt floyd "up" to fight all his opponents.

So canelo would not beat marquez or bradley at the catchweight that canelos team demanded?
Are you loco?

Floyd should never have fought canelo at a catchweight as we all know he criticised manny for it and the last round he had against maidana was appalling and that was running!

Either way, I dont have to curse or call people names to get my point across, son.

[Silkeyjoe]

Comparing Manny and Floyd is like comparing Floyd to fighters from different eras, they just aint gonna fight and we dont really know who would win. Flod is big fav but Ive always maintained speed and movement could cause Floyd to struggle. Thats why I give Khan a great chance against him, a better chance than I would give him of beating Pac.

As for Floyds opposition being much superior to Pacs well if we look at their last 7.

Floyd has Mosly who was well past it, Ortiz who is noy good, Cotto who got obliterated by Pac (easier than Floyd did) Guerrero who again is average, Alavarez (his best opponent) who I again dont rate at that level as I feel he should have lost to Lara and anyone strugling with Trout isnt going to be a match for Floyd and then Maidana twice who in my opinoin was not worthy of a fight with Floyd once let alone twice.

Pac has Margarito nothing special but is as good as Maidana, Mosely shot, Marquez as good as anyone on the floyds list, Bradley twice again as good as anyone on Floyds list and Rios who is just shit.

Mosely just beat the monster margacheato and floyd schooled him.
Manny beat a shot paycheck moseley.

Floyd ko a prime undefeated hatton,
Pac ko a shot defeated hatton.

Ortiz is better than rios
Rios is shit (i agree)

Pac beat a catchweight cotto (good win)
Floyd beat a cotto at his weight.

Maidana would beat margacheato and beats all of pacs opponents bar cotto (possibly)

Canelo would beat all of pacs opponents!
Pac wouldnt even entertain a canelo fight.

This back and forth could go on for ages but no matter how you look at it whether its an inch or a mile..winning is winning...and floyd shines in the above.

Floyd would easily beat marquez and bradley and everyone knows that!!

Ortiz lost to Lopez who is as bad as they come at top level. Rios would beat Ortiz because Ortiz cant box smart and he has no chin. Pac beat Hatton at Hattons proper weight and didnt make him step up to a weight class he wasnt strong in. Canelo wouldnt beat Marquez or Bradley especially if he was weight drained like he was against Floyd. He just isnt that good at all. Maidana couldnt beat Kotelnik or Khan and struggled with a shot Morales. Again he aint coming close to beating Bradley or Marquez. Stop being a twat.

Mikeeod makes a much better arguement than you silky joe.

It was only a few threads ago when every saddo member exposed you for calling marquez win against pac a lucky punch.

No one is saying pac is not a great fighter..im merely pointing out that floyd would never loose to those opponents and is the more complete fighter.

Pac would be "up" to fight floyd but isnt floyd "up" to fight all his opponents.

So canelo would not beat marquez or bradley at the catchweight that canelos team demanded?
Are you loco?

Floyd should never have fought canelo at a catchweight as we all know he criticised manny for it and the last round he had against maidana was appalling and that was running!

Either way, I dont have to curse or call people names to get my point across, son.

Im not argueing whos the better fighter, as I have said countless times before its clearly Floyd. This thread is about whos opponents have been better and all I have said is the truth, that they are about par judging by their last 7 opponents. And no Canelo did not demand Floyd to fight at a catchweight rather than the normal LMW limit.

It depends what you call a lucky punch. Throwing that same punch 1000 times against Pac how many times does he land and KO Pac? 5? 10? Id call that lucky if you are landing a 1 or 2 percenter. Most people who criticised me calling it lucky said there is no luck in boxing and no such thing as a lucky punch. I Just dont believe that.

[imp]

Comparing Manny and Floyd is like comparing Floyd to fighters from different eras, they just aint gonna fight and we dont really know who would win. Flod is big fav but Ive always maintained speed and movement could cause Floyd to struggle. Thats why I give Khan a great chance against him, a better chance than I would give him of beating Pac.

As for Floyds opposition being much superior to Pacs well if we look at their last 7.

Floyd has Mosly who was well past it, Ortiz who is noy good, Cotto who got obliterated by Pac (easier than Floyd did) Guerrero who again is average, Alavarez (his best opponent) who I again dont rate at that level as I feel he should have lost to Lara and anyone strugling with Trout isnt going to be a match for Floyd and then Maidana twice who in my opinoin was not worthy of a fight with Floyd once let alone twice.

Pac has Margarito nothing special but is as good as Maidana, Mosely shot, Marquez as good as anyone on the floyds list, Bradley twice again as good as anyone on Floyds list and Rios who is just shit.

Mosely just beat the monster margacheato and floyd schooled him.
Manny beat a shot paycheck moseley.

Floyd ko a prime undefeated hatton,
Pac ko a shot defeated hatton.

Ortiz is better than rios
Rios is shit (i agree)

Pac beat a catchweight cotto (good win)
Floyd beat a cotto at his weight.

Maidana would beat margacheato and beats all of pacs opponents bar cotto (possibly)

Canelo would beat all of pacs opponents!
Pac wouldnt even entertain a canelo fight.

This back and forth could go on for ages but no matter how you look at it whether its an inch or a mile..winning is winning...and floyd shines in the above.

Floyd would easily beat marquez and bradley and everyone knows that!!

Ortiz lost to Lopez who is as bad as they come at top level. Rios would beat Ortiz because Ortiz cant box smart and he has no chin. Pac beat Hatton at Hattons proper weight and didnt make him step up to a weight class he wasnt strong in. Canelo wouldnt beat Marquez or Bradley especially if he was weight drained like he was against Floyd. He just isnt that good at all. Maidana couldnt beat Kotelnik or Khan and struggled with a shot Morales. Again he aint coming close to beating Bradley or Marquez. Stop being a twat.

Mikeeod makes a much better arguement than you silky joe.

It was only a few threads ago when every saddo member exposed you for calling marquez win against pac a lucky punch.

No one is saying pac is not a great fighter..im merely pointing out that floyd would never loose to those opponents and is the more complete fighter.

Pac would be "up" to fight floyd but isnt floyd "up" to fight all his opponents.

So canelo would not beat marquez or bradley at the catchweight that canelos team demanded?
Are you loco?

Floyd should never have fought canelo at a catchweight as we all know he criticised manny for it and the last round he had against maidana was appalling and that was running!

Either way, I dont have to curse or call people names to get my point across, son.

Im not argueing whos the better fighter, as I have said countless times before its clearly Floyd. This thread is about whos opponents have been better and all I have said is the truth, that they are about par judging by their last 7 opponents. And no Canelo did not demand Floyd to fight at a catchweight rather than the normal LMW limit.

It depends what you call a lucky punch. Throwing that same punch 1000 times against Pac how many times does he land and KO Pac? 5? 10? Id call that lucky if you are landing a 1 or 2 percenter. Most people who criticised me calling it lucky said there is no luck in boxing and no such thing as a lucky punch. I Just dont believe that.

When garcia dropped khan...was that lucky?

[mikeeod]

Comparing Manny and Floyd is like comparing Floyd to fighters from different eras, they just aint gonna fight and we dont really know who would win. Flod is big fav but Ive always maintained speed and movement could cause Floyd to struggle. Thats why I give Khan a great chance against him, a better chance than I would give him of beating Pac.

As for Floyds opposition being much superior to Pacs well if we look at their last 7.

Floyd has Mosly who was well past it, Ortiz who is noy good, Cotto who got obliterated by Pac (easier than Floyd did) Guerrero who again is average, Alavarez (his best opponent) who I again dont rate at that level as I feel he should have lost to Lara and anyone strugling with Trout isnt going to be a match for Floyd and then Maidana twice who in my opinoin was not worthy of a fight with Floyd once let alone twice.

Pac has Margarito nothing special but is as good as Maidana, Mosely shot, Marquez as good as anyone on the floyds list, Bradley twice again as good as anyone on Floyds list and Rios who is just shit.

Mosely just beat the monster margacheato and floyd schooled him.
Manny beat a shot paycheck moseley.

Floyd ko a prime undefeated hatton,
Pac ko a shot defeated hatton.

Ortiz is better than rios
Rios is shit (i agree)

Pac beat a catchweight cotto (good win)
Floyd beat a cotto at his weight.

Maidana would beat margacheato and beats all of pacs opponents bar cotto (possibly)

Canelo would beat all of pacs opponents!
Pac wouldnt even entertain a canelo fight.

This back and forth could go on for ages but no matter how you look at it whether its an inch or a mile..winning is winning...and floyd shines in the above.

Floyd would easily beat marquez and bradley and everyone knows that!!

Ortiz lost to Lopez who is as bad as they come at top level. Rios would beat Ortiz because Ortiz cant box smart and he has no chin. Pac beat Hatton at Hattons proper weight and didnt make him step up to a weight class he wasnt strong in. Canelo wouldnt beat Marquez or Bradley especially if he was weight drained like he was against Floyd. He just isnt that good at all. Maidana couldnt beat Kotelnik or Khan and struggled with a shot Morales. Again he aint coming close to beating Bradley or Marquez. Stop being a twat.

Mikeeod makes a much better arguement than you silky joe.

It was only a few threads ago when every saddo member exposed you for calling marquez win against pac a lucky punch.

No one is saying pac is not a great fighter..im merely pointing out that floyd would never loose to those opponents and is the more complete fighter.

Pac would be "up" to fight floyd but isnt floyd "up" to fight all his opponents.

So canelo would not beat marquez or bradley at the catchweight that canelos team demanded?
Are you loco?

Floyd should never have fought canelo at a catchweight as we all know he criticised manny for it and the last round he had against maidana was appalling and that was running!

Either way, I dont have to curse or call people names to get my point across, son.

Im not argueing whos the better fighter, as I have said countless times before its clearly Floyd. This thread is about whos opponents have been better and all I have said is the truth, that they are about par judging by their last 7 opponents. And no Canelo did not demand Floyd to fight at a catchweight rather than the normal LMW limit.

It depends what you call a lucky punch. Throwing that same punch 1000 times against Pac how many times does he land and KO Pac? 5? 10? Id call that lucky if you are landing a 1 or 2 percenter. Most people who criticised me calling it lucky said there is no luck in boxing and no such thing as a lucky punch. I Just dont believe that.

When garcia dropped khan...was that lucky?

Hate to jump back in this discussion, but I don't think Garcia set his hook up like JMM did the right. Both shots were the result of the other guys (Manny and Khan) being too aggressive and not keeping their defense tight. As wild as Khan was, I would say that eventually a hook was going to land as he was literally just loading up to take Garcia's head off with every shot. The counter that turned out Manny's lights was different than the shot landed earlier in the fight by JMM, so I'm not sure if I characterize the punch as lucky or just a shot that was set up really well...

[imp]

Roy jones had both.

He was exciting and occasionally boring when he carried opponents.

This thread is about opponents so lets put floyd and mannys last 3 opponents in a boxing competition...who wins and why?

Is anyone happy to discuss in detail mannys losses or will we continue to duck that question like floyd is ducking manny.

"Imp, stop talking about losses!
Ali was a beaten fighter and he is the greatest!"

Manny is no ali.

Duran..yes..minus the quit in his heart.

I will talk about the losses, I think it will be enlightening. What's on your mind?

On my mind right now is that I wish I never had work in the morning and Im thinking whether I should go downstairs and finish off that last bit of whole nut in the fridge whilst watching four rooms.

On boxing terms and manny pac lets start of with RUSTICO..

RUSTICO

3rd ko.
Nothing to see here.
Early in his career but he learned from an early age that he had flaws which evantually made him better.

DRAW 1

SANCHEZ

Headbutt stopped fight.
No one did enough to win even with sanchez being DOCKED TWO POINTS.

DRAW 2

MARQUEZ

He ko marquez x3 times in the first round and marquez still comes back to get a draw..what on earth can you defend about that?!!

MORALES

Outboxed and judges gave morales unanimous decision..shall we blame floyd for this?

BRADLEY 1

The first fight was close and manny looked like he won but I could see how the judge could have given it to bradley.

My view is that in their last encounter bradley got injured again but didnt really want to make to much noise about it as the death threats and the decent payday was enough to mute his opinion this time round.


MARQUEZ

4 great fights but the last one was no lucky punch and that was the 2nd ko of the evening that nearly ended his career..no lucky punch..it was timed and countered and all the advantages were with manny including weight, age, power and decision making and the camp really thought they had marquez number this time.

So lets not blame floyd for all the above but credit these fighters for getting the best of pacman and just being to good for him at the time.

Floyd would beat every single one of these guys and we all know he would..he beats every single era of manny pac and you secretly know it.

Discussing the losses/draws:
JMM: This was a great fight. I don't see the need to make any excuses or that Manny would need it. This was the first match up between two ATGs and it was a phenomenal fight. Manny overwhelmed him early and JMM showed his class by putting on a counterpunching clinic. Had one of the three judges correctly ruled that first round a 10-6 round, Manny would've won by decision. I find it odd that you would think I would blame Floyd for anything to do with that, or that I would somehow feel that it was a bad performance by Manny. I didn't think Tommy Hearns was a bum or needed excuses when he lost to Leonard, and Manny vs. JMM #1 was closer than that. I commend Manny for taking JMM on at that point when many other fighters were avoiding him.

Morales: Manny was coming up for that fight, Morales only had one disputed loss to fellow ATG Barrera at that point, and again Manny put on a gutsy performance and lost a close decision to a fellow ATG. I don't see the need to make an excuse for him. I feel that Manny performed better in his fights vs. fellow ATGs JMM and Morales than Floyd did vs. Jose Luis Castillo. I'm just being honest when I say that. The decision was close and Manny had zero quit in him and during his prime Morales was a beast (and again, Manny was moving up to fight the best guy available).

Bradley: If you give that first fight to Bradley, or even suggest it was close, you don't have much credibility in my book. Again, I can take some of your comments seriously, but Manny dominated Bradley, who was undefeated and P4P ranked at the time. No need whatsoever for an excuse of any kind. The only thing that disappointed me about Manny in this fight is that he didn't go for the K.O. Again, it was impressive that Manny actively pursued a fight with a younger, larger (Manny was fighting at 147 longer but Bradley is the bigger man) and undefeated champion in his prime.

JMM #4: I don't think it was a lucky punch, per se, but I do feel that Manny was overwhelming JMM and just got too aggressive. It happens in a fight sometimes. It was a great punch and great win for JMM. Manny was punishing him prior, despite the phenomenal KD from JMM in the third. Look at JMM's face at the time of the stoppage, he was busted up pretty good and Manny was pushing HARD for that KO. Could he have played it safe and tried to outbox and out hustle him? Sure. I love the guy's desire to be great/tenacity and how he tried to erase all doubt and score the knockout. JMM timed him and he paid the price though. Still, much like Hearns vs. Hagler, I don't think that stoppage is horrible for Manny. If you fight long enough against the toughest competition available, it is going to happen.

Floyd vs. those who beat Manny: I agree with you, I think that Floyd, who started at 130 and was naturally larger than JMM and Morales would have beaten them, and I feel that while Bradley would've given Floyd trouble (I would argue that due to style match up more trouble than he gave Manny), Floyd would've beaten him as well (unless he had the same judges against him that Manny had).

Floyd vs. Manny: Complex question. I think Floyd is the better fighter, in that he has MUCH more skill, is more versatile and has a much smarter boxing mind in that ring and is the naturally larger man. I would definitely make Floyd the favorite in that fight. That being said, Manny has a VERY good chance to upset Floyd for a couple of reasons. 1) Style match up. Floyd Sr. has gone on record numerous times throughout Floyd's career and said he should NEVER fight a southpaw. Additionally, Manny's speed of hand and foot and ability to move in and out from odd angles would bother Floyd. Think of the Judah fight, but understand that Manny is much more consistent throughout the fight and doesn't gas like Judah. Manny's workrate would also trouble Floyd. Floyd has superb defense, and manny would miss a ton of shots but his high volume may keep Floyd defensive and allow Manny to hustle his way to a win. Punching power. While I think Floyd has a solid chin and good recuperative ability, some of Manny's punches break bones (orbital bones...etc.), it would be interesting to see how Floyd would overcome severe damage in a fight against a savage like Manny. 2) Manny will get "up" for Floyd. Some guys just have a "thing" for a specific fighter. Evander for Tyson is an example. JMM is that guy for Manny. Barrera was that guy for Morales. It is hard to explain but if you ever competed you know what I'm talking about. There is a natural mental aspect where fighter "A" has a chip on his shoulder for fighter "B". They also see something that they are just certain they can capitalize on, and their styles just naturally give that other fighter a hard time. I have a feeling Manny will be that guy for Floyd. I don't see Manny as motivated for guys like Bradley, JMM for the fourth or fifth time, Danny Garcia...etc. For Mayweather I think you would see him fight the fight of his life. Even if he beats Floyd, I don't necessarily think that would make him the better fighter, as I don't think Floyd will be as "up" for Manny.

So after reading your reply mike, you pretty much agree with what I said apart from the bradley situation.

My honest gut feeling after the bradley fight was that pac won so lets leave that loss alone.

At least you were able to discuss these losses with me as that was my teeny weeny trump card that kind of kept the over keen pac fan at bay.

[Silkeyjoe]

Comparing Manny and Floyd is like comparing Floyd to fighters from different eras, they just aint gonna fight and we dont really know who would win. Flod is big fav but Ive always maintained speed and movement could cause Floyd to struggle. Thats why I give Khan a great chance against him, a better chance than I would give him of beating Pac.

As for Floyds opposition being much superior to Pacs well if we look at their last 7.

Floyd has Mosly who was well past it, Ortiz who is noy good, Cotto who got obliterated by Pac (easier than Floyd did) Guerrero who again is average, Alavarez (his best opponent) who I again dont rate at that level as I feel he should have lost to Lara and anyone strugling with Trout isnt going to be a match for Floyd and then Maidana twice who in my opinoin was not worthy of a fight with Floyd once let alone twice.

Pac has Margarito nothing special but is as good as Maidana, Mosely shot, Marquez as good as anyone on the floyds list, Bradley twice again as good as anyone on Floyds list and Rios who is just shit.

Mosely just beat the monster margacheato and floyd schooled him.
Manny beat a shot paycheck moseley.

Floyd ko a prime undefeated hatton,
Pac ko a shot defeated hatton.

Ortiz is better than rios
Rios is shit (i agree)

Pac beat a catchweight cotto (good win)
Floyd beat a cotto at his weight.

Maidana would beat margacheato and beats all of pacs opponents bar cotto (possibly)

Canelo would beat all of pacs opponents!
Pac wouldnt even entertain a canelo fight.

This back and forth could go on for ages but no matter how you look at it whether its an inch or a mile..winning is winning...and floyd shines in the above.

Floyd would easily beat marquez and bradley and everyone knows that!!

Ortiz lost to Lopez who is as bad as they come at top level. Rios would beat Ortiz because Ortiz cant box smart and he has no chin. Pac beat Hatton at Hattons proper weight and didnt make him step up to a weight class he wasnt strong in. Canelo wouldnt beat Marquez or Bradley especially if he was weight drained like he was against Floyd. He just isnt that good at all. Maidana couldnt beat Kotelnik or Khan and struggled with a shot Morales. Again he aint coming close to beating Bradley or Marquez. Stop being a twat.

Mikeeod makes a much better arguement than you silky joe.

It was only a few threads ago when every saddo member exposed you for calling marquez win against pac a lucky punch.

No one is saying pac is not a great fighter..im merely pointing out that floyd would never loose to those opponents and is the more complete fighter.

Pac would be "up" to fight floyd but isnt floyd "up" to fight all his opponents.

So canelo would not beat marquez or bradley at the catchweight that canelos team demanded?
Are you loco?

Floyd should never have fought canelo at a catchweight as we all know he criticised manny for it and the last round he had against maidana was appalling and that was running!

Either way, I dont have to curse or call people names to get my point across, son.

Im not argueing whos the better fighter, as I have said countless times before its clearly Floyd. This thread is about whos opponents have been better and all I have said is the truth, that they are about par judging by their last 7 opponents. And no Canelo did not demand Floyd to fight at a catchweight rather than the normal LMW limit.

It depends what you call a lucky punch. Throwing that same punch 1000 times against Pac how many times does he land and KO Pac? 5? 10? Id call that lucky if you are landing a 1 or 2 percenter. Most people who criticised me calling it lucky said there is no luck in boxing and no such thing as a lucky punch. I Just dont believe that.

When garcia dropped khan...was that lucky?

A bit. Khan was overconfident and should never have been caught with that punch. He was lucky it landed where it did and Khan couldnt recover, if it just buzzed him I think it would have made him fight more conservatively and beat Garcia easily. I believe quite a lot of one punch KO punches are lucky

[pacfan]

We can go back and fourth all we want but as fans we should be grateful we were alive in this era to see these guys fighting. In the end I think Manny is a far superior fighter, I know each fighter has a style until themselves but Floyd wouldn't go balls to the wall as Manny always does. Floyd would not fighter a fighter who consistently gives him trouble as JMM did Manny. If so Floyd would have taken on Cotto three months after the first fight. Manny New when he stepped in the ring against JMM it wasn't a gimme but so many if Floyd's fights were gimme. I think his rematch with his last opponent was more to fulfill his contract than to prove anything else. If Floyd gets the W with some controversy when has he ever given a shot about proving things to his fans. Floyd has no fans, only people who give him money. I think Manny has an entire different view on such things. One of our members here @pacfan often talks about how like is in the Philippines and how Manny was selling food on the streets to help his family survive. Someone else said comparing these two fighters is comparing apples and oranges.Tough times for Manny were avoiding starvation, tough times for Floyd were doing time for domestic abuse..

I have much more respect for Manny not only in boxing but in humanity. He is tough in ways that Floyd couldn't experience any longer.

To reiterate, I am glad I'm a boxing fan and have been able to pay overpriced numbers to see Floyd fight, absolutely love to see him do his thing but even more so when it comes to Manny. I always feel I'm seeing something beyond special with Manny. Sure he has some loses, but his record overall is mind blowing especially when you look where he came from. I have been left breathless after seeing Manny land combos like nothing I have seen before. He is beyond great and he doesn't need to tell us every five minutes. Manny v Pac will happen in 2015. I hear Mannys team is looking to steal Biber away from team money. If this does happen Manny v Pac may not happen as Beiber is the only thing keeping Floyd from beginning a full "blown" pedophile. Justin looks long enough where he fulfills Floyd's need for young boys to touch and penetrate but losing him from team money will force Floyd to capture what he really wants, eleven year old boys. Manny is going to rescue Beiber and get him the help he needs. Bahai

Nice post, buds, I couldn't have said it any better.