I will talk about the losses, I think it will be enlightening. What's on your mind?Originally Posted by imp
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Forum Greatest Of All Time
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Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
I will talk about the losses, I think it will be enlightening. What's on your mind?
Forum Greatest Of All Time
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On my mind right now is that I wish I never had work in the morning and Im thinking whether I should go downstairs and finish off that last bit of whole nut in the fridge whilst watching four rooms.I will talk about the losses, I think it will be enlightening. What's on your mind?
On boxing terms and manny pac lets start of with RUSTICO..
RUSTICO
3rd ko.
Nothing to see here.
Early in his career but he learned from an early age that he had flaws which evantually made him better.
DRAW 1
SANCHEZ
Headbutt stopped fight.
No one did enough to win even with sanchez being DOCKED TWO POINTS.
DRAW 2
MARQUEZ
He ko marquez x3 times in the first round and marquez still comes back to get a draw..what on earth can you defend about that?!!
MORALES
Outboxed and judges gave morales unanimous decision..shall we blame floyd for this?
BRADLEY 1
The first fight was close and manny looked like he won but I could see how the judge could have given it to bradley.
My view is that in their last encounter bradley got injured again but didnt really want to make to much noise about it as the death threats and the decent payday was enough to mute his opinion this time round.
MARQUEZ
4 great fights but the last one was no lucky punch and that was the 2nd ko of the evening that nearly ended his career..no lucky punch..it was timed and countered and all the advantages were with manny including weight, age, power and decision making and the camp really thought they had marquez number this time.
So lets not blame floyd for all the above but credit these fighters for getting the best of pacman and just being to good for him at the time.
Floyd would beat every single one of these guys and we all know he would..he beats every single era of manny pac and you secretly know it.
Forum Greatest Of All Time
Array
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
Discussing the losses/draws:On my mind right now is that I wish I never had work in the morning and Im thinking whether I should go downstairs and finish off that last bit of whole nut in the fridge whilst watching four rooms.I will talk about the losses, I think it will be enlightening. What's on your mind?
On boxing terms and manny pac lets start of with RUSTICO..
RUSTICO
3rd ko.
Nothing to see here.
Early in his career but he learned from an early age that he had flaws which evantually made him better.
DRAW 1
SANCHEZ
Headbutt stopped fight.
No one did enough to win even with sanchez being DOCKED TWO POINTS.
DRAW 2
MARQUEZ
He ko marquez x3 times in the first round and marquez still comes back to get a draw..what on earth can you defend about that?!!
MORALES
Outboxed and judges gave morales unanimous decision..shall we blame floyd for this?
BRADLEY 1
The first fight was close and manny looked like he won but I could see how the judge could have given it to bradley.
My view is that in their last encounter bradley got injured again but didnt really want to make to much noise about it as the death threats and the decent payday was enough to mute his opinion this time round.
MARQUEZ
4 great fights but the last one was no lucky punch and that was the 2nd ko of the evening that nearly ended his career..no lucky punch..it was timed and countered and all the advantages were with manny including weight, age, power and decision making and the camp really thought they had marquez number this time.
So lets not blame floyd for all the above but credit these fighters for getting the best of pacman and just being to good for him at the time.
Floyd would beat every single one of these guys and we all know he would..he beats every single era of manny pac and you secretly know it.
JMM: This was a great fight. I don't see the need to make any excuses or that Manny would need it. This was the first match up between two ATGs and it was a phenomenal fight. Manny overwhelmed him early and JMM showed his class by putting on a counterpunching clinic. Had one of the three judges correctly ruled that first round a 10-6 round, Manny would've won by decision. I find it odd that you would think I would blame Floyd for anything to do with that, or that I would somehow feel that it was a bad performance by Manny. I didn't think Tommy Hearns was a bum or needed excuses when he lost to Leonard, and Manny vs. JMM #1 was closer than that. I commend Manny for taking JMM on at that point when many other fighters were avoiding him.
Morales: Manny was coming up for that fight, Morales only had one disputed loss to fellow ATG Barrera at that point, and again Manny put on a gutsy performance and lost a close decision to a fellow ATG. I don't see the need to make an excuse for him. I feel that Manny performed better in his fights vs. fellow ATGs JMM and Morales than Floyd did vs. Jose Luis Castillo. I'm just being honest when I say that. The decision was close and Manny had zero quit in him and during his prime Morales was a beast (and again, Manny was moving up to fight the best guy available).
Bradley: If you give that first fight to Bradley, or even suggest it was close, you don't have much credibility in my book. Again, I can take some of your comments seriously, but Manny dominated Bradley, who was undefeated and P4P ranked at the time. No need whatsoever for an excuse of any kind. The only thing that disappointed me about Manny in this fight is that he didn't go for the K.O. Again, it was impressive that Manny actively pursued a fight with a younger, larger (Manny was fighting at 147 longer but Bradley is the bigger man) and undefeated champion in his prime.
JMM #4: I don't think it was a lucky punch, per se, but I do feel that Manny was overwhelming JMM and just got too aggressive. It happens in a fight sometimes. It was a great punch and great win for JMM. Manny was punishing him prior, despite the phenomenal KD from JMM in the third. Look at JMM's face at the time of the stoppage, he was busted up pretty good and Manny was pushing HARD for that KO. Could he have played it safe and tried to outbox and out hustle him? Sure. I love the guy's desire to be great/tenacity and how he tried to erase all doubt and score the knockout. JMM timed him and he paid the price though. Still, much like Hearns vs. Hagler, I don't think that stoppage is horrible for Manny. If you fight long enough against the toughest competition available, it is going to happen.
Floyd vs. those who beat Manny: I agree with you, I think that Floyd, who started at 130 and was naturally larger than JMM and Morales would have beaten them, and I feel that while Bradley would've given Floyd trouble (I would argue that due to style match up more trouble than he gave Manny), Floyd would've beaten him as well (unless he had the same judges against him that Manny had).
Floyd vs. Manny: Complex question. I think Floyd is the better fighter, in that he has MUCH more skill, is more versatile and has a much smarter boxing mind in that ring and is the naturally larger man. I would definitely make Floyd the favorite in that fight. That being said, Manny has a VERY good chance to upset Floyd for a couple of reasons. 1) Style match up. Floyd Sr. has gone on record numerous times throughout Floyd's career and said he should NEVER fight a southpaw. Additionally, Manny's speed of hand and foot and ability to move in and out from odd angles would bother Floyd. Think of the Judah fight, but understand that Manny is much more consistent throughout the fight and doesn't gas like Judah. Manny's workrate would also trouble Floyd. Floyd has superb defense, and manny would miss a ton of shots but his high volume may keep Floyd defensive and allow Manny to hustle his way to a win. Punching power. While I think Floyd has a solid chin and good recuperative ability, some of Manny's punches break bones (orbital bones...etc.), it would be interesting to see how Floyd would overcome severe damage in a fight against a savage like Manny. 2) Manny will get "up" for Floyd. Some guys just have a "thing" for a specific fighter. Evander for Tyson is an example. JMM is that guy for Manny. Barrera was that guy for Morales. It is hard to explain but if you ever competed you know what I'm talking about. There is a natural mental aspect where fighter "A" has a chip on his shoulder for fighter "B". They also see something that they are just certain they can capitalize on, and their styles just naturally give that other fighter a hard time. I have a feeling Manny will be that guy for Floyd. I don't see Manny as motivated for guys like Bradley, JMM for the fourth or fifth time, Danny Garcia...etc. For Mayweather I think you would see him fight the fight of his life. Even if he beats Floyd, I don't necessarily think that would make him the better fighter, as I don't think Floyd will be as "up" for Manny.
Forum Greatest Of All Time
Array
So after reading your reply mike, you pretty much agree with what I said apart from the bradley situation.Discussing the losses/draws:On my mind right now is that I wish I never had work in the morning and Im thinking whether I should go downstairs and finish off that last bit of whole nut in the fridge whilst watching four rooms.I will talk about the losses, I think it will be enlightening. What's on your mind?
On boxing terms and manny pac lets start of with RUSTICO..
RUSTICO
3rd ko.
Nothing to see here.
Early in his career but he learned from an early age that he had flaws which evantually made him better.
DRAW 1
SANCHEZ
Headbutt stopped fight.
No one did enough to win even with sanchez being DOCKED TWO POINTS.
DRAW 2
MARQUEZ
He ko marquez x3 times in the first round and marquez still comes back to get a draw..what on earth can you defend about that?!!
MORALES
Outboxed and judges gave morales unanimous decision..shall we blame floyd for this?
BRADLEY 1
The first fight was close and manny looked like he won but I could see how the judge could have given it to bradley.
My view is that in their last encounter bradley got injured again but didnt really want to make to much noise about it as the death threats and the decent payday was enough to mute his opinion this time round.
MARQUEZ
4 great fights but the last one was no lucky punch and that was the 2nd ko of the evening that nearly ended his career..no lucky punch..it was timed and countered and all the advantages were with manny including weight, age, power and decision making and the camp really thought they had marquez number this time.
So lets not blame floyd for all the above but credit these fighters for getting the best of pacman and just being to good for him at the time.
Floyd would beat every single one of these guys and we all know he would..he beats every single era of manny pac and you secretly know it.
JMM: This was a great fight. I don't see the need to make any excuses or that Manny would need it. This was the first match up between two ATGs and it was a phenomenal fight. Manny overwhelmed him early and JMM showed his class by putting on a counterpunching clinic. Had one of the three judges correctly ruled that first round a 10-6 round, Manny would've won by decision. I find it odd that you would think I would blame Floyd for anything to do with that, or that I would somehow feel that it was a bad performance by Manny. I didn't think Tommy Hearns was a bum or needed excuses when he lost to Leonard, and Manny vs. JMM #1 was closer than that. I commend Manny for taking JMM on at that point when many other fighters were avoiding him.
Morales: Manny was coming up for that fight, Morales only had one disputed loss to fellow ATG Barrera at that point, and again Manny put on a gutsy performance and lost a close decision to a fellow ATG. I don't see the need to make an excuse for him. I feel that Manny performed better in his fights vs. fellow ATGs JMM and Morales than Floyd did vs. Jose Luis Castillo. I'm just being honest when I say that. The decision was close and Manny had zero quit in him and during his prime Morales was a beast (and again, Manny was moving up to fight the best guy available).
Bradley: If you give that first fight to Bradley, or even suggest it was close, you don't have much credibility in my book. Again, I can take some of your comments seriously, but Manny dominated Bradley, who was undefeated and P4P ranked at the time. No need whatsoever for an excuse of any kind. The only thing that disappointed me about Manny in this fight is that he didn't go for the K.O. Again, it was impressive that Manny actively pursued a fight with a younger, larger (Manny was fighting at 147 longer but Bradley is the bigger man) and undefeated champion in his prime.
JMM #4: I don't think it was a lucky punch, per se, but I do feel that Manny was overwhelming JMM and just got too aggressive. It happens in a fight sometimes. It was a great punch and great win for JMM. Manny was punishing him prior, despite the phenomenal KD from JMM in the third. Look at JMM's face at the time of the stoppage, he was busted up pretty good and Manny was pushing HARD for that KO. Could he have played it safe and tried to outbox and out hustle him? Sure. I love the guy's desire to be great/tenacity and how he tried to erase all doubt and score the knockout. JMM timed him and he paid the price though. Still, much like Hearns vs. Hagler, I don't think that stoppage is horrible for Manny. If you fight long enough against the toughest competition available, it is going to happen.
Floyd vs. those who beat Manny: I agree with you, I think that Floyd, who started at 130 and was naturally larger than JMM and Morales would have beaten them, and I feel that while Bradley would've given Floyd trouble (I would argue that due to style match up more trouble than he gave Manny), Floyd would've beaten him as well (unless he had the same judges against him that Manny had).
Floyd vs. Manny: Complex question. I think Floyd is the better fighter, in that he has MUCH more skill, is more versatile and has a much smarter boxing mind in that ring and is the naturally larger man. I would definitely make Floyd the favorite in that fight. That being said, Manny has a VERY good chance to upset Floyd for a couple of reasons. 1) Style match up. Floyd Sr. has gone on record numerous times throughout Floyd's career and said he should NEVER fight a southpaw. Additionally, Manny's speed of hand and foot and ability to move in and out from odd angles would bother Floyd. Think of the Judah fight, but understand that Manny is much more consistent throughout the fight and doesn't gas like Judah. Manny's workrate would also trouble Floyd. Floyd has superb defense, and manny would miss a ton of shots but his high volume may keep Floyd defensive and allow Manny to hustle his way to a win. Punching power. While I think Floyd has a solid chin and good recuperative ability, some of Manny's punches break bones (orbital bones...etc.), it would be interesting to see how Floyd would overcome severe damage in a fight against a savage like Manny. 2) Manny will get "up" for Floyd. Some guys just have a "thing" for a specific fighter. Evander for Tyson is an example. JMM is that guy for Manny. Barrera was that guy for Morales. It is hard to explain but if you ever competed you know what I'm talking about. There is a natural mental aspect where fighter "A" has a chip on his shoulder for fighter "B". They also see something that they are just certain they can capitalize on, and their styles just naturally give that other fighter a hard time. I have a feeling Manny will be that guy for Floyd. I don't see Manny as motivated for guys like Bradley, JMM for the fourth or fifth time, Danny Garcia...etc. For Mayweather I think you would see him fight the fight of his life. Even if he beats Floyd, I don't necessarily think that would make him the better fighter, as I don't think Floyd will be as "up" for Manny.
My honest gut feeling after the bradley fight was that pac won so lets leave that loss alone.
At least you were able to discuss these losses with me as that was my teeny weeny trump card that kind of kept the over keen pac fan at bay.
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