the end of the world

[Andre]

There is a book entitled Adams vs Jefferson that actually depicts the conditions just described above- Jefferson was known as praying to the Goddess of reason in France, dividing America into sects called Republicans and because he was quoted at saying "it does me no harm nor brakes my leg if my neighbor has 20 gods or no god"..as a result was called an Athiest- preachers preached he would destroy all bibles, so hide them!! Today he is a hero lol!

Since then, America has endured presidents who over saw every sickness imagineable from the black plague to most recent Avian Flu under Bush. But the world kept on keepin on...America too!

Not taking into account what the natives must have thought about the Jesus-calling immigrants bringing measles, mumps, pox... the world as they knew it surely came to some kind of an end...

Thanks to religion & philosophy; 1/2 the nation is always claiming the end of the world because (their) prez aint in the house.

Less we forgot the last dude in the WhiteHouse claimed he answered to the father on high as to why he took the nation to war and Lt. Boykin..
Crusade | Christian Right | Christian Zionists | Rapture | Holy War

...went to the Islamic world and told them God put Bush in power to fight them.

IT seems America at some point took on every form of ism, then rejects it when a new ism comes along.
Time then turns those heels into heros from Jefferson the athiest to Andrew Jackson and his Jacksonian governing all now loved by those who didnt live in their day.

It will be interesting to see how time judges Bush & Obama, but we know in reel-time they were both defended by 1/2 the nation an abhored by the other half...

Makes me think of a comedian named Dave Allen at Large he was Irish or somethin' he had a skit where 2 soldiers were about to fight each other and they both prayed to God to defeat the other.
Allen playing God looked at one... then the other...then pulled out a quarter , flipped it and thats how he chose. LMAO!

Personally I thought it was a funny as hell skit, but true to form on how nations have the ass out audacity to claim they all represent God, less we forget that the NSA head in the 1970s' under Carter-told Al Queada, "God is on your side" ..then Ronald Reagan brought them muthejumpas to the WhiteHouse and backed them
Sleeping With the Devil: How U.S. and Saudi Backing of Al Qaeda Led to 9/11 Washington's Blog

30 years later....

There are two basic types of religion in this world. The first believe in God and the second doesn't believe in God. They are both on equal footing because both of them can neither prove or disprove the existence of God. The basic doctrine of a the first is to believe in God. The basic doctrine of the second? ...at the first glance I thought it was 'not to believe in God.' But after hearing what most of them say most of the time, I came to the conclusion that their basic doctrine is but to ridicule the first. But I can't understand them. Why would they want to ridicule the first when neither I nor they, or anyone else for that matter, can conclusively prove or disprove the existence or the non-existence of God. If they ridicule the first, it's just like they are ridiculing themselves - they are just different sides of of the same coin. No offense, buddy. Just stating the facts.

Total duality eh . Im not sure the rule applies to all but most think in it for sure.

I dont think its polarization of thoughts as such though.

But thoughts are like poles, north and south,people will always draw their own perspective off of the reverse stance to their thought.

People fuck everything up.

Religion is not Gods creation, it is mans creation.

The God botherers with their "this is that and this is not" addictions to thoughts on Universal process, dont do the Universal power of love that is behind the allowance to form into materialism any justice.

Humans like digging around for shit.

That is the problem with some religious doctrines, they are modelled after human thought and human thoughts are basically formed with huge influence from our survivor instinct, and God doesn't necessarily think, if that is the right word, that way because He has no survivor issue to worry about. But anyway, for me as long as it brings positive vibes, it is good...
...Here I go again, I told myself to stop talking religion as most blokes won't understand me, except few who think outside the box and you know what I mean, mate.

Yeah. The religious are told what to think and how to think by someone else passing it along.
They forget to look deep into the history of those who have passed it along to the ones who are telling them their version.

[SlimTrae]

For the record, I'm not (technically)an unbeliever, but as Andre aka--Dr.Dre here (haha) put it..It's religion that I question: not spirituality.

If I were an athiest, this link would totally describe why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0A_iF1B3k0

I'd like to give prophecy Andre will dig this clip!

[Andre]

Great, I just watched a few of them .


Ever get the feeling we are dumped into the middle of duality so each side you choose has a reflection in the opposite and the truth cant be found between them due to them being fixed but imagined extremes?

When you take a stance you have what you only think is a fixed perspective.

Change is the only cert;embrace it and you can flow.

[pacfan]

For the record, I'm not (technically)an unbeliever, but as Andre aka--Dr.Dre here (haha) put it..It's religion that I question: not spirituality.

If I were an athiest, this link would totally describe why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0A_iF1B3k0

I'd like to give prophecy Andre will dig this clip!

It was okay except one thing, the atheist set himself apart from the rest trying to make us believe he was the only one right when he should've joined the others with his own belief or doctrine. But most importantly, an atheist is probably following the culture he has grown up with without knowing it; exactly the same thing he was denouncing...

[SlimTrae]

LOL! You..are truly a man of conviction.
I respect you saying "probably" as you haven't walked in the shoes of a doubter or athiest, so I will end with a "probably"

The skit is probably showing a person with conviction to find the truth. Not side against it, that is how I took it, but we all have perspectives as Dre said.

Could it be that some christians, become muslims?
Some muslims become Jehovah Witness?
Some Budhists become Christians...and any of the above can find an emptiness in all of them, nothing nurtering their spirit, so the religous can turn athiest more so than being raised one, agree?

As those who find a belief, usually raise questions about what they really don't know (the end of the world- the topic thread) while the athiest is mostly concerned about what they do know live, love and respect those while in the world.

Seems to me between Jews , Christians and Muslims, they have created enough strife and wars that would turn some people athiests as athiests wage war against whom? Each other IMO.

Muslims or those in the name of Islam have defended their faith with murderous organizations ISIS, before that, Al Queada, then Hamas, then Hezbollah, before that DAWA party –why by the way is now the government under Maliki in Iraq- remember when they held elections with the blue-inked finger back in 05,06? Yup they took off the bomb backpacks and put on the political cap- And per Lt. Boykin of the US Army: God put President Bush in power to do that?

Christians and their 30 year war that ravaged Europe.
Martin Luther and his desire to reform the church creating a two-tier system: Protestants & Lutherans.

King James accepting an English version, yet oversaw the murder of the one who wrote the first English translation: William Tyndale- he burned him at the stake-with his own bibles. Yet history shows us the Puritans aka Pilgrims came to American with that Bible and not the KJV.

So denominations follow like-Roger Williams came to America and who persecuted him?

Yup the Puritans, so he fled to the savage Indians under the guidance of Chief Massassoit.
The the Quakers followed,him, then the Amish..none could find justice under the Puritans- yet the puritans claimed that is why they left England and fled to Holland_To serve God the right way.

Point is:Notice how each individual who claims to serve God, has a problem with the next person. But the atheist aren’t the ones killing the so-called righteous- it’s the self righteous

and the Jews and the OT? Just a few...ok just a few to show how some believers turn away from religion...some of us embrace spirituality, while yes others turn athiestic or agnostic.

Exodus- God drowns men in 600 charriots
Exodus 32:27-27 3,000 die
Leviticus 10:1-3 God.. not a man-burns Aarons son…to death
Lev 24:10:23 stoning to death for blasphemy

42 boys were eaten by 2 bears because they called an old man- baldheaded- imagine the grief of the mothers…apparently the God felt it was just…I wonder what yo’ mama jokes do to God..hmmmm

Number 16: 35 250 men killed for burnin incense
Number 16:49 14,700 people question why God is killing so much…so he kills them..so much for ask and it shall to told..
Number 25:1-11 God sends a plague kills 24,000 people- so much for claiming Egyptians were evil, they just enslaved…not killed.
Numbers 31:1-35 God orders 6 kings killed, +males and non-virgin females --save the untouched cootchie, wow that sounds righteous

Deuteronomy 2:33-34 God orders the death of men, women..and get this: children in 60 cities. Damn the kids?

Joshua 8:1-25 12,000 in the city of Ai are ordered killed.
Joshua 10:28-42 all cities to the south are to be anhiliated.
Joshua 11:8-12 now the cities to the north…slaughtered.
Judges 1:4 the canaanites and Perizzites= 10,000 damn that’s genocide isn’t it?
Judges 1:19 The lord was with them all the way but he couldn’t give them the victory because get this its says---they had chariots of Iron

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
Per Hindu, Budhist, Muslim, Christian and then some all claiming God is with them...then told God will end the world, while us non-believers feel the world will keep on going...but the regious zealots... well keep Pacfan..he's a boxing fan!!!

[pacfan]

LOL! You..are truly a man of conviction.
I respect you saying "probably" as you haven't walked in the shoes of a doubter or athiest, so I will end with a "probably"

The skit is probably showing a person with conviction to find the truth. Not side against it, that is how I took it, but we all have perspectives as Dre said.

Could it be that some christians, become muslims?
Some muslims become Jehovah Witness?
Some Budhists become Christians...and any of the above can find an emptiness in all of them, nothing nurtering their spirit, so the religous can turn athiest more so than being raised one, agree?

As those who find a belief, usually raise questions about what they really don't know (the end of the world- the topic thread) while the athiest is mostly concerned about what they do know live, love and respect those while in the world.

Seems to me between Jews , Christians and Muslims, they have created enough strife and wars that would turn some people athiests as athiests wage war against whom? Each other IMO.

Muslims or those in the name of Islam have defended their faith with murderous organizations ISIS, before that, Al Queada, then Hamas, then Hezbollah, before that DAWA party –why by the way is now the government under Maliki in Iraq- remember when they held elections with the blue-inked finger back in 05,06? Yup they took off the bomb backpacks and put on the political cap- And per Lt. Boykin of the US Army: God put President Bush in power to do that?

Christians and their 30 year war that ravaged Europe.
Martin Luther and his desire to reform the church creating a two-tier system: Protestants & Lutherans.

King James accepting an English version, yet oversaw the murder of the one who wrote the first English translation: William Tyndale- he burned him at the stake-with his own bibles. Yet history shows us the Puritans aka Pilgrims came to American with that Bible and not the KJV.

So denominations follow like-Roger Williams came to America and who persecuted him?

Yup the Puritans, so he fled to the savage Indians under the guidance of Chief Massassoit.
The the Quakers followed,him, then the Amish..none could find justice under the Puritans- yet the puritans claimed that is why they left England and fled to Holland_To serve God the right way.

Point is:Notice how each individual who claims to serve God, has a problem with the next person. But the atheist aren’t the ones killing the so-called righteous- it’s the self righteous

and the Jews and the OT? Just a few...ok just a few to show how some believers turn away from religion...some of us embrace spirituality, while yes others turn athiestic or agnostic.

Exodus- God drowns men in 600 charriots
Exodus 32:27-27 3,000 die
Leviticus 10:1-3 God.. not a man-burns Aarons son…to death
Lev 24:10:23 stoning to death for blasphemy

42 boys were eaten by 2 bears because they called an old man- baldheaded- imagine the grief of the mothers…apparently the God felt it was just…I wonder what yo’ mama jokes do to God..hmmmm

Number 16: 35 250 men killed for burnin incense
Number 16:49 14,700 people question why God is killing so much…so he kills them..so much for ask and it shall to told..
Number 25:1-11 God sends a plague kills 24,000 people- so much for claiming Egyptians were evil, they just enslaved…not killed.
Numbers 31:1-35 God orders 6 kings killed, +males and non-virgin females --save the untouched cootchie, wow that sounds righteous

Deuteronomy 2:33-34 God orders the death of men, women..and get this: children in 60 cities. Damn the kids?

Joshua 8:1-25 12,000 in the city of Ai are ordered killed.
Joshua 10:28-42 all cities to the south are to be anhiliated.
Joshua 11:8-12 now the cities to the north…slaughtered.
Judges 1:4 the canaanites and Perizzites= 10,000 damn that’s genocide isn’t it?
Judges 1:19 The lord was with them all the way but he couldn’t give them the victory because get this its says---they had chariots of Iron

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
Per Hindu, Budhist, Muslim, Christian and then some all claiming God is with them...then told God will end the world, while us non-believers feel the world will keep on going...but the regious zealots... well keep Pacfan..he's a boxing fan!!!

Actually I liked how that video was presented especially the part on those missiles. It gave me some good laffs. What I disagree is that the atheist there presented himself to be a sensible and benevolent referee, but you and I know that many atheists are as rowdy and disagreeable as the rest of them; I know because I've debated with many of them even here in the Philippines.

Now back to the issue, to keep it simple, we'll stick to the issue of theism and atheism, or simply belief or unbelief in God or his existence. I asked myself why the concept of God has been present in almost all, if not all, civilizations, even the most primitive ones. It's like a universal instinct built-in on us humans. Why was this universal instinct of belief in God planted on us? there must be a reason, and I thought, it must have come from above. That's one of the reason why I believe in the existence of God. But when people started to interpret God in their own ways and create religions, that's where the problem started. And for me just because various religions have interpreted God in different and often contradictory ways doesn't change the fact, of course to theists like me, that God exists. To put it in another way, just because people of various countries or races have come up with different ideas of God or religions have no bearing on God himself, it's their problem, not God's. I believe God is absolute, while religion definitely is not! as everyone probably knows. We were taught that God is good and devil is evil. That is the basic concept of God I believe in. Now you probably understand why I kept religion away from the concept of God. Most of your arguments above were religious issues, not issues about God per se. So turning a bit on religion. I think religion is just evolving and it has a natural tendency to become more and more benevolent as society develop. The early Christians were just like the Muslims today. In the end, I believe they will all believe God in the same way: God that represents everything good, which is the old, classic way we were taught when we were childrens. The problem, I think, is that we humans are misinterpreting what or who God actually is. I have my own concept but I will not go into that... and get myself into more trouble.

[SlimTrae]

I think my convo-argument with my brother yesterday-carried into this forum My bad.
However, your final post we are in total agreement!

[walrus]

And Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Khmer rouge, and so many others killed under there own brand of atheism. Chairman Mao alone killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. An estimated eighty million of his own people. He killed more in his short time in history than Religion did in thousands of years.

[pacfan]

I think my convo-argument with my brother yesterday-carried into this forum My bad.
However, your final post we are in total agreement!

C'mon Mr.SlimT, you are just being kind, lol. I understand how tiring it is to discuss theism and atheism when either side haven't got much evidence to support its claim but stubbornly try to support his claim. So I usually don't engage in discussion with atheists but when I saw your post, I thought you were a reasonably sensible guy so I decided to reply to your post - and take that as a compliment.

And Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Khmer rouge, and so many others killed under there own brand of atheism. Chairman Mao alone killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. An estimated eighty million of his own people. He killed more in his short time in history than Religion did in thousands of years.

...and Cambodian despot Pol Pot. What's ironical is that some of their adherents consider them their Gods.

Peole kill for all kinds of reasons, but to use a tit-for tat as a reason to NOT discuss why religous people do it doesn't make much sense to me.

And I wouldn't say that those guys-killed more than all religions or books put together----unless you know about the Koran, Mahabarata, Epic of Giglamesh, Septuagint, there are way too many reilgious texts that have led to deaths in the name of their gods, to even try to make a tally. You are talking modern times and historic times have long covered their attrocities.

Once again its usually the religous who talk of end times, talk of their piousness, then when questioned about it; most will use a... well someone else does it.

But since those of Stalin to Chaka Zulu have killed, there was no moral justification for their killings.

Nor do they speak of end times as if they have some inside scoop from the maker above.

The very books that claim no one knows the end times, have readers who claim to know.
The very books that claim to have the blueprint for righteous living seem to have the most unrighteous people heading them.
Killings weren't the topic, but an example of those who claim end times, are the same ones who kill in the name of their god, what exuse do they have for that?

I agree, and during much earlier times, Christians (and I'm a Christian though more nominal than real) used to do that and they even used to burn infidels on stake! They did that to one young lady and made her a saint later. Unlike God, religion and people are fallible, except perhaps one fella who call himself KirklandL (yo, ol' buddy).

*******

I was born into a Catholic family but has never been particularly that religious. I just couldn't bring myself to believe some biblical passages, like the story of Adam and Eve and the forbidden fruit. So I'm pretty relieved to know that the Catholic leaders have suggested that bible doesn't have to be interpreted literally, or it can be interpreted allegorically. That gives us much more latitude to see bible in different light. For example, my interpretation of the Adam and Eve's fruit of knowledge of good and evil is that when somewhere up the evolution when man acquired consciousness, and conscience, the sense of right and wrong, that's where trouble started because now man had to deal with constant sense of guilt, which many psychologists say is the source of man's many suffering, sometimes even physical ones. That's probably the reason why the bible empahsizes repentance - relieve man of his guilt and set him free... Of course that's just my opinion.

[SlimTrae]

LOL! You..are truly a man of conviction.

well keep Pacfan..he's a boxing fan!!!

I know because I've debated with many of them even here in the Philippines.
.

I didn't get a chance to reply to your home territory- the land of Pac- for the record. I admit frustration on Pac's part that he is with Arum. Man Pac is the shiznick! I feel that he brings his A game to the table-But Arum IMO has stood in the way .
But a man who understand's there is a God usually presents some form of humility-to which Pac exhibits.
I know when he does get inducted to the HOF, I will be there.
He had the power as a skinny runt, so that will always be a no-brainer to me. His power is natural.
Or...a gift from....

[pacfan]

LOL! You..are truly a man of conviction.

well keep Pacfan..he's a boxing fan!!!

I know because I've debated with many of them even here in the Philippines.
.

I didn't get a chance to reply to your home territory- the land of Pac- for the record. I admit frustration on Pac's part that he is with Arum. Man Pac is the shiznick! I feel that he brings his A game to the table-But Arum IMO has stood in the way .
But a man who understand's there is a God usually presents some form of humility-to which Pac exhibits.
I know when he does get inducted to the HOF, I will be there.
He had the power as a skinny runt, so that will always be a no-brainer to me. His power is natural.
Or...a gift from....

What are you talking about, pacman Is God!..

[pacfan]

There is a book entitled Adams vs Jefferson that actually depicts the conditions just described above- Jefferson was known as praying to the Goddess of reason in France, dividing America into sects called Republicans and because he was quoted at saying "it does me no harm nor brakes my leg if my neighbor has 20 gods or no god"..as a result was called an Athiest- preachers preached he would destroy all bibles, so hide them!! Today he is a hero lol!

Since then, America has endured presidents who over saw every sickness imagineable from the black plague to most recent Avian Flu under Bush. But the world kept on keepin on...America too!

Not taking into account what the natives must have thought about the Jesus-calling immigrants bringing measles, mumps, pox... the world as they knew it surely came to some kind of an end...

Thanks to religion & philosophy; 1/2 the nation is always claiming the end of the world because (their) prez aint in the house.

Less we forgot the last dude in the WhiteHouse claimed he answered to the father on high as to why he took the nation to war and Lt. Boykin..
Crusade | Christian Right | Christian Zionists | Rapture | Holy War

...went to the Islamic world and told them God put Bush in power to fight them.

IT seems America at some point took on every form of ism, then rejects it when a new ism comes along.
Time then turns those heels into heros from Jefferson the athiest to Andrew Jackson and his Jacksonian governing all now loved by those who didnt live in their day.

It will be interesting to see how time judges Bush & Obama, but we know in reel-time they were both defended by 1/2 the nation an abhored by the other half...

Makes me think of a comedian named Dave Allen at Large he was Irish or somethin' he had a skit where 2 soldiers were about to fight each other and they both prayed to God to defeat the other.
Allen playing God looked at one... then the other...then pulled out a quarter , flipped it and thats how he chose. LMAO!

Personally I thought it was a funny as hell skit, but true to form on how nations have the ass out audacity to claim they all represent God, less we forget that the NSA head in the 1970s' under Carter-told Al Queada, "God is on your side" ..then Ronald Reagan brought them muthejumpas to the WhiteHouse and backed them
Sleeping With the Devil: How U.S. and Saudi Backing of Al Qaeda Led to 9/11 Washington's Blog

30 years later....

There are two basic types of religion in this world. The first believe in God and the second doesn't believe in God. They are both on equal footing because both of them can neither prove or disprove the existence of God. The basic doctrine of a the first is to believe in God. The basic doctrine of the second? ...at the first glance I thought it was 'not to believe in God.' But after hearing what most of them say most of the time, I came to the conclusion that their basic doctrine is but to ridicule the first. But I can't understand them. Why would they want to ridicule the first when neither I nor they, or anyone else for that matter, can conclusively prove or disprove the existence or the non-existence of God. If they ridicule the first, it's just like they are ridiculing themselves - they are just different sides of of the same coin. No offense, buddy. Just stating the facts.

Total duality eh . Im not sure the rule applies to all but most think in it for sure.

I dont think its polarization of thoughts as such though.

But thoughts are like poles, north and south,people will always draw their own perspective off of the reverse stance to their thought.

People fuck everything up.

Religion is not Gods creation, it is mans creation.

The God botherers with their "this is that and this is not" addictions to thoughts on Universal process, dont do the Universal power of love that is behind the allowance to form into materialism any justice.

Humans like digging around for shit.

That is the problem with some religious doctrines, they are modelled after human thought and human thoughts are basically formed with huge influence from our survivor instinct, and God doesn't necessarily think, if that is the right word, that way because He has no survivor issue to worry about. But anyway, for me as long as it brings positive vibes, it is good...
...Here I go again, I told myself to stop talking religion as most blokes won't understand me, except few who think outside the box and you know what I mean, mate.

Yeah. The religious are told what to think and how to think by someone else passing it along.
They forget to look deep into the history of those who have passed it along to the ones who are telling them their version.

Xactly, even now new cults are cropping up even here in the Philippines with new leaders making their own interpretation of the bible and attacking each other - same book and they can't agree. And most religions has this doctrine of exclusivity - 'ours is the only true religion' mentality - which is nothing more than a herd instinct trying to assert itself in the world of 'survivor of the fittest.' And when they go into exteme, they go out chopping off infidels' heads. The Jews believe they are the only fellas chosen by God, but at least they don't go around trying to destroy people of other race...

*******

For me, you can find true religion and God when you rid ourselves of all bestial or animal instinct. When you achieve that you can see the world for what it really is. As Jesus, or Jesusa? as Andre calls him, said, 'blessed is the pure of heart for they will see God.' So go on purify your hearts and you will see God and heaven... ... and I hope the world will not end before that happens...