What makes an ATG?

[SlimTrae]

I undertand it in theory, but technically speaking, then a guy like Benny Leonard could he have been overated since he didnt fight many Mexicans- who dominate the smaller weight classes?

[Beanflicker]

I undertand it in theory, but technically speaking, then a guy like Benny Leonard could he have been overated since he didnt fight many Mexicans- who dominate the smaller weight classes?

For sure, and he probably is overrated.

When you become a boxing fan who decides to go back and learn about boxing's yesteryears, we all get the same lines fed to us. Stories about how great this guy and that guy was, how much tougher everyone was, how everybody fought for the love of boxing and fought all the best opposition, ect ect. There's a lot of truth in there I'm sure, but there's also a lot of bullshit. The problem is most people are scared shitless in actually going against the grain, researching and actually forming their own opinions. And frankly, most don't want to, because their heads are full of dreamy nostalgic visions of a "better time", and to suggest that a guy might not have been all he was cracked up to be is like pissing on the bible or the quran.

[Beanflicker]

If you want to talk specifically about the analogy you made though, boxing was a relatively new art in Mexico at the time of Benny Leonard brought over from Cuba, and Mexico wasn't producing the kind of fighters like obviously it became known for later on.

In the days of Gene Tunney and Dempsey, there were a ton of black boxers who were (generally) athletically superior, filled with anger from the way they had been and continued to be treated by white society, and a desire to break out of their impoverished beginnings.

[Master]

If you want to talk specifically about the analogy you made though, boxing was a relatively new art in Mexico at the time of Benny Leonard brought over from Cuba, and Mexico wasn't producing the kind of fighters like obviously it became known for later on.

In the days of Gene Tunney and Dempsey, there were a ton of black boxers who were (generally) athletically superior, filled with anger from the way they had been and continued to be treated by white society, and a desire to break out of their impoverished beginnings.

Dempsey did fight Black fighters whom he beat and he was close to defending his title against the leading Black fighter.

[SlimTrae]

If you want to talk specifically about the analogy you made though, boxing was a relatively new art in Mexico at the time of Benny Leonard brought over from Cuba, and Mexico wasn't producing the kind of fighters like obviously it became known for later on.

In the days of Gene Tunney and Dempsey, there were a ton of black boxers who were (generally) athletically superior, filled with anger from the way they had been and continued to be treated by white society, and a desire to break out of their impoverished beginnings.

Technically I understand as I named a fighter who started much earlier than the Mexicans I would have referenced like Jose Flores aka Battling Shaw in the late 1920's.

I just try to keep it in perspective that every sport had to be integrated, so do we draw the line or hold all white athletes accountable if they didn't face an athlete who race/ethnicity rules today?

As I'm sure; before the word pugilism made it to Mexico, there was more than a fare share of fist fights occurring in Tijuana & then some.

it's not like when American football or baseball made it there- that's a lot of stuff to learn. But a boxing match skill wise in the 1910s/1920's was basically a fistfight with mittens on IMO.

I guess Gorgeous George then would have gotten his buttocks kicked had their been a Dwayne the Rock Johnson to wrestle? Can you smell...what the Rock is cookin?

[TitoFan]

You can't have an ATG without an elite level of competition. Not just after having built a career off of beating bums. This progression needs to begin early on. You do not coddle a fighter for the first 30-40 fights of his career and then start crowing about his being an ATG (or anything else, for that matter). The best, most respected fighters, are those who begin fighting good competition early on, many times even by their 10th fight.