gay marriage in the US

[Gandalf]

You two take this stuff far too seriously. I do not share the views of NV and neither do I share the faith of Walrus, but I appreciate the humour and character of them both. In the past I would get disturbed by religious based posts, but found that my views were likewise intolerant of others. You have to chill out and respect that different people are coming from a different place. If faith helps Walrus in life, then all power to the man. If faith is NV's way of handling a frankly irrational world, then the same to him. If someone wants to judge then that is up to them. Does it reflect on them? Of course it does, but that is their call to make. In some way or another we are always judging others. Andre likes to judge the Chinese, Greenbeanz likes to judge music taste, I like to judge Tony Blair.

With all due respect Miles, I don't really know what your point is ? I am not angry, my posts are not aggressive and neither are Andre's. So what do you mean by chill out ? Are we all just supposed to stop debating and expressing different opinions now ? I can of course see the humour in both posters, though Walrus sometimes has a sense of humour bypass when reading other people's posts.

Andre was there telling people they 'should not judge' and yet that is what people do constantly. If NV wants to have his Bible based fun, then so what? People are entitled to their views no matter how odd. I doubt he goes around confronting gay people or anything like that. It's odd to take it so seriously. Also, I sometimes thinks NV picks up on some interesting points such as the concept that homosexuals are oftentimes the victims of abuse. This is a pattern that I have noticed too having seen it in life, but also in examples of well known people I respect. Not always the case, but far too common to be ignored. It is something that goes somewhat unspoken.

People can express what they like, but certainly in my own case, I have more time for different perspectives than I used to. I respect the rights of homosexuals, but I am also cool with groups that don't want it promoted or do think it is immoral. That is up to the individual and should be respected too.

[walrus]

Nice sentiments Miles. The thing that gets me about beanz is he takes such offense to those who express different ideas to his political beliefs yet things nothing of doing so to others. It's all good, we should express our opinions but should be mindful we don't do to others that which we don't like done to us. Andre puzzles me, at one moment he reports he has done Christian volunteer work in Africa, a very noble act I must say, but then speaks rather negatively on Christianity.

[Andre]

Nice sentiments Miles. The thing that gets me about beanz is he takes such offense to those who express different ideas to his political beliefs yet things nothing of doing so to others. It's all good, we should express our opinions but should be mindful we don't do to others that which we don't like done to us. Andre puzzles me, at one moment he reports he has done Christian volunteer work in Africa, a very noble act I must say, but then speaks rather negatively on Christianity.

I was part of the continuation of the Desposni churches work there, not Christian,although I was early in my life and went to a Christian bible college by my own means and studied scripture there.

Im against the Roman take over of what was once a love based church of followers,to this day they are still against us because we claim their God of fear is the false worship as warned about and the moving of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday as warned about also in scripture is wholly their doing.

[walrus]

Nice sentiments Miles. The thing that gets me about beanz is he takes such offense to those who express different ideas to his political beliefs yet things nothing of doing so to others. It's all good, we should express our opinions but should be mindful we don't do to others that which we don't like done to us. Andre puzzles me, at one moment he reports he has done Christian volunteer work in Africa, a very noble act I must say, but then speaks rather negatively on Christianity.

I was part of the continuation of the Desposni churches work there, not Christian,although I was early in my life and went to a Christian bible college by my own means and studied scripture there.

Im against the Roman take over of what was once a love based church of followers,to this day they are still against us because we claim their God of fear is the false worship as warned about and the moving of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday as warned about also in scripture is wholly their doing.

The Sabbath was made for man, man was not made for the Sabbath.

[Andre]

Nice sentiments Miles. The thing that gets me about beanz is he takes such offense to those who express different ideas to his political beliefs yet things nothing of doing so to others. It's all good, we should express our opinions but should be mindful we don't do to others that which we don't like done to us. Andre puzzles me, at one moment he reports he has done Christian volunteer work in Africa, a very noble act I must say, but then speaks rather negatively on Christianity.

I was part of the continuation of the Desposni churches work there, not Christian,although I was early in my life and went to a Christian bible college by my own means and studied scripture there.

Im against the Roman take over of what was once a love based church of followers,to this day they are still against us because we claim their God of fear is the false worship as warned about and the moving of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday as warned about also in scripture is wholly their doing.

The Sabbath was made for man, man was not made for the Sabbath.

Read on,Its not a book of excuses.

[walrus]

Nice sentiments Miles. The thing that gets me about beanz is he takes such offense to those who express different ideas to his political beliefs yet things nothing of doing so to others. It's all good, we should express our opinions but should be mindful we don't do to others that which we don't like done to us. Andre puzzles me, at one moment he reports he has done Christian volunteer work in Africa, a very noble act I must say, but then speaks rather negatively on Christianity.

I was part of the continuation of the Desposni churches work there, not Christian,although I was early in my life and went to a Christian bible college by my own means and studied scripture there.

Im against the Roman take over of what was once a love based church of followers,to this day they are still against us because we claim their God of fear is the false worship as warned about and the moving of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday as warned about also in scripture is wholly their doing.

The Sabbath was made for man, man was not made for the Sabbath.

Read on,Its not a book of excuses.

not quite sure what that comment means. There is an interesting passage in Collossians 2: 16-17. They seem to lean more to celebrating the resurrection and meeting/breaking bread (institution of the Eucharist) on Sundays as it was the day Christ rose. From very early on the topic was addressed by several saints. I found several interesting writings including from one of my favorites, Augustine. However, what you say is not without merit. I found the passage I mentioned in Collissians very interesting. It seems the solemnity for the early Christians was changing to the day of the risen Christ.I always enjoy these topics mostly when they become discussions not arguments. To me, the highest form of thought is theology. I'm not big on preaching but I did have two people close to me convert to Catholicism through our discussions. I don't take credit for that but that is where our discussions led. I had a good friend who was Islamic and man we had some great discussions. Sure, we both came from the point of few where we felt we were both right but we had respect for each other and each other's faith. There are some intense versus in the Koran about killing the non believer but there are others about letting him go on his way. He couldn't always reconcile the two for me but none the less we learned a lot from each other.

[Andre]

Nice sentiments Miles. The thing that gets me about beanz is he takes such offense to those who express different ideas to his political beliefs yet things nothing of doing so to others. It's all good, we should express our opinions but should be mindful we don't do to others that which we don't like done to us. Andre puzzles me, at one moment he reports he has done Christian volunteer work in Africa, a very noble act I must say, but then speaks rather negatively on Christianity.

I was part of the continuation of the Desposni churches work there, not Christian,although I was early in my life and went to a Christian bible college by my own means and studied scripture there.

Im against the Roman take over of what was once a love based church of followers,to this day they are still against us because we claim their God of fear is the false worship as warned about and the moving of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday as warned about also in scripture is wholly their doing.

The Sabbath was made for man, man was not made for the Sabbath.

Read on,Its not a book of excuses.

not quite sure what that comment means. There is an interesting passage in Collossians 2: 16-17. They seem to lean more to celebrating the resurrection and meeting/breaking bread (institution of the Eucharist) on Sundays as it was the day Christ rose. From very early on the topic was addressed by several saints. I found several interesting writings including from one of my favorites, Augustine. However, what you say is not without merit. I found the passage I mentioned in Collissians very interesting. It seems the solemnity for the early Christians was changing to the day of the risen Christ.I always enjoy these topics mostly when they become discussions not arguments. To me, the highest form of thought is theology. I'm not big on preaching but I did have two people close to me convert to Catholicism through our discussions. I don't take credit for that but that is where our discussions led. I had a good friend who was Islamic and man we had some great discussions. Sure, we both came from the point of few where we felt we were both right but we had respect for each other and each other's faith. There are some intense versus in the Koran about killing the non believer but there are others about letting him go on his way. He couldn't always reconcile the two for me but none the less we learned a lot from each other.

I think its hard to reconcile the differences in all scripture writings whatever the religion;Thats why I said they are not a book of excuses (so people can point to a verse and say see I can kill or see I can judge,or I can change ceremony, names, dates etc to our human needs. I think the stories run deeper into situations and outcomes than single verse or chapters to justify ones actions or lack of.

[SlimTrae]

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The Sabbath was made for man, man was not made for the Sabbath.

Wow..I though it was meant for Ozzie.

[Beanz]

Actually in some ways it was made for the woman. The Queen of the Sabbath, that is why she lights the candles, why during Shabbat as a celebration of creation she says the prayer and can even demand sex from her husband. It is a time for mercy while three meals are eaten and it is indeed a time for family, it is also a time to make sure anyone that is hungry (your neighbour for example) is fed.

[SlimTrae]

Andre puzzles me, at one moment he reports he has done Christian volunteer work in Africa, a very noble act I must say, but then speaks rather negatively on Christianity.

His perspective is: dare I say again? Deep!
I can't explain his POV but I can understand it.

The statement U mentioned about Dre- is what I get when it comes to my family. They can't figure out what I mean when I say: Christians are cool. It's Christianity I have issues with.

1. Christian is mentioned in scriptures- In Antioch where they( followers-aka students) were labeled such. And IMO wore it with a badge of honor.
2. Christianity isn't. IMO that was the government taking over that which they couldn't stop the movement Hey-suus started. . But could control.

[walrus]

Andre puzzles me, at one moment he reports he has done Christian volunteer work in Africa, a very noble act I must say, but then speaks rather negatively on Christianity.

His perspective is: dare I say again? Deep!
I can't explain his POV but I can understand it.

The statement U mentioned about Dre- is what I get when it comes to my family. They can't figure out what I mean when I say: Christians are cool. It's Christianity I have issues with.

1. Christian is mentioned in scriptures- In Antioch where they( followers-aka students) were labeled such. And IMO wore it with a badge of honor.
2. Christianity isn't. IMO that was the government taking over that which they couldn't stop the movement Hey-suus started. . But could control.

To me that's just semantics, it all boils down to followers of Christ but I digress, I know it can be a hot topic. To be honest, the one thing I don't understand is the hostility towards believers of any faith. I'm not saying just you slim, I'm saying everyone who holds such views,I'm a proud Catholic but I find beauty in every religion on the planet. Wisdom is not an I thing, it is an I you thing. When I can relate openly with my fellow man and listen to him without my bias creeping g in we are both achieving wisdom. I can read, study, pontificate but if I am shut out from the bird of others I have no wisdom. You say you have no problems with Christians but it is Christianity that makes us so.

[Andre]

My problem with Christianity is they judge others when specifically told not to.
Also Romes version that is now the modern take on the old religion of love and peace: ad rules and fear and you are all back to judgment once again, against his word.

[walrus]

My problem with Christianity is they judge others when specifically told not to.
Also Romes version that is now the modern take on the old religion of love and peace: ad rules and fear and you are all back to judgment once again, against his word.

Well, you ate blaming the religion when in reality it is humans falling short. I truly wish I could live the gospel, but I fall short. Having said that it has helped to greatly decrease my many character defects. The problems with Christianity is we humans. Not christ. If you don't follow Rome, fine, your more than entitled. I wouldn't try to change you, to the believer, my words are irrelevant to the non believer, they would not change your mind. I just ask we respect one another's belief.

[Beanz]

Some beliefs are dangerous and should be challenged. If you love your fellow man then surely that is the right thing to do ?

[SlimTrae]

Also Romes version that is now the modern take on the old religion of love and peace: ad rules and fear and you are all back to judgment once again, against his word.

If you don't follow Rome, fine, your more than entitled. I wouldn't try to change you, to the believer, .

How do you view Martin Luther and the reformation? More so, the puritans who made the pilgrimage to this country who came with the Geneva Bible which was disliked by the King at the time. Some even had the Tyndale Bible or that which he finished-NT before being executed for doing so. If I understand: neither were government approved.

I offer no criticism. Just interested to know how a catholic such as yourself views the first settlers of this land that didn't use the catholic bible, Just curious-- considering that you come across as an American Patriot, proud of your country- and rightfully so.