How many guns are enough?

[bozo6]

Guns are a tool. You need different tools for different jobs.

The 'jobs' you are likely to encounter are;

* Walk em up hunting. AND,
*Tree stand or ambush hunting.

3 different game categories; Small, medium and large game, requires 3 different tools. Walking with a rifle all day also requires some consideration to weight of the rifle and its 'handiness', Barrel length.
Small game; Bolt action .17wmr
Medium game; Bolt action 22/250, 243, 7mm08.
Large game; semi-auto, bolt action 270, 30/06 (or larger)

*Varmining

As you are in one position and not walking around, weight is not a major concern, accuracy and range is.
Small game; Bolt action, 17wmr to 22/250 or 220 swift.
Medium game; Bolt action, 243 all the way to the 25/06 and the Weatherby range of large varmint calibres.
Large game; Bolt action, Take your pick of anything over 27 cal. Preferably over 30 cal


*Bird hunting.

12GA shotgun. Pump, semi-auto, over and under.

*Scrub gun for medium game.

Short barrel lever, pump action shotgun or rifle. Winchester 'trapper' 44/40, 30/30. BLR 308.

*Fun gun.

Cheap shooting rifle for shooting tin cans, targets etc.
Lever action, pump or semi-auto .22.

So I think one could get away with just having 10 rifles and a shotgun or 2. But as its a hobby, interest in a new style of rifle or new calibre will always motivate us to get a new toy..

[TitoFan]

There's probably some of those on this rack. Scoot the Pampers over a little bit, have the little girl get off and help push the shopping cart, and the guy could easily kill two birds (excuse the pun) with one stone.

[Bill Paxtom]

A gun can be used as an instrument.

At one time, a pretty good 'raunchy' Hard Rock band.

[Spicoli]

Before Katrina none, after Katrina two.

What exactly are you so scared off?

If its such an issue to live in that area why don't you just move.

I don't consider it scared but situationally aware. Prepared. Hindsight is 20-20 but had I known prior to the storm and aftermath how rapidly society can collapse, I would have done more than a few things differently. I tend to get scrambled when talking about Katrina but when everything you know as a functional city, leadership, infrastructure, services etc..disappears over night..shit gets real. Real bad and real quick. I attempted to 'walk' to work the same day as landfall to see if it was still standing. We had 3-5 ft of water in some areas of the west bank..so much was lost in the media because they rarely distinguished the difference or fact that there is a West and East bank separated by the Mississippi river here. At first on day 1 I was thinking well we made it and the worst was over. Major wind damage but light rain and it appeared that the levees had held in the first few hours. We along with the gulf coast had been through this before, figured we'd be rebuilding in a couple of days. That began to change rather rapidly. I reached the Parish line walking down the middle of the road and as I got close to a strip mall near work I heard screaming and saw at least 8 to 12 guys running around and riding bikes out of the area. I stood on the levee and started to make a b line along it as the main road was gone. Trying to get into building from rear. The next thing I know it was literally a scene out of some fookin movie and THE moment shit got real. The same what were clearly looters had made it to me and riding in circles. Three stopped before I hit the levee, (aka out of sight)..pulling at their pants and covering faces with bandanas and yelled "are you a cop white boy"..I shouted back "do I look like a fuckin cop". It was the first thing that popped into my head. I wasn't confirming a target and left them guessing. They stood there for a minute and said nothing and the group road off. That moment right there, that instant, told me this wasn't just another 'storm'. The only people left in this city were the poor, the infirmed, the idiots who stayed to ride it out or had rides leave them in the middle of the night (me ) and the criminals. Its hard to explain but you go into a minute to minute way of thinking, adapting and you get primal. By day 2 talk of the water rising was there. The wal mart was openly looted, the Wal Greens was being smashed and still zero police presence. That night you started hearing the distinct sound of pop pop pop the next street over. Then random automatic gun fire late at night. Then the frantic scramble for gas and literally ANY car that was mobile began. I had a POS Honda at the time that would not have made the drive, but it had fuel. Thugs were going around 'punching tanks' on cars syphoning the gas. Windows crashing became hourly. My intent was to get as far as I could on I-90..out of that shit hole ASAP..only to find the roads still underwater and blocked by trees and debris. I had to turn around and hunker down another night. You were being watched, packs of guys looking for anything they could get around here. When I pulled into the neighborhood I made it a point to 'be seen' acting like the car stalled out and ran out of gas. Even though I still had a quarter tank. I pushed it so it would block the front windows and didn't want it stolen or looted. A few cops began showing up on 3rd day but there was no order of operation. Literally just a couple squad cars with police as lost as we were. Frantic. They had no clue what was happening. One had approached a group of looters on Gen. DeGaulle road and was shot in the back of the head, no back up, no nothing. The single car near our road had two officers in it that were panicked. A female rookie was balling her eyes out and the senior said they had to leave area and wait for military to arrive. Again..zero officials or City government to be heard of. YOU were on your own save for a few neighbors who banded together once night came. I spent the last two days waiting on a co worker to drive in so we could evacuate the few dogs remaining at work. He came with two family friends who were retired Jefferson Parish officers and in full tactical gear. The shit was surreal. I turned around in the doorway convinced I'd never see it again, gave a box of remaining water and food to the one neighbor left refusing to leave and split. We literally loaded dogs into a horse trailer under armed guard hearing sporadic shots going off from different directions. As we headed out we passed the Mall which was still being looted and was now fully ablaze as were other buildings. I'm not a gun nut, but I will never ever be that vulnerable and left relying on inept City or State Government again. I purchased a .590 and 9mm for the trip back. More importantly though..when cat. 5 hurricane comes..GET OUT! Evacuate. Lessons learned. Massively long winded here mate. I don't think I've taken the proper time to process some of that shit. Cheers

[El Kabong]

I'm not a gun nut, but I will never ever be that vulnerable and left relying on inept City or State Government again.

Thank you for that explanation. I hate that you had to go through that, but whether it's the aftermath of a Hurricane or whether the media whips people up into a frenzy as they did in Ferguson, MO guns keep you safe. And again it levels the playing field, if you have people looting a gun will end that real quick like, if people want to rob from your person a gun ends that real quick too.

[SlimTrae]

Before Katrina none, after Katrina two.

What exactly are you so scared off?

If its such an issue to live in that area why don't you just move.

I don't consider it scared but situationally aware. Prepared. Hindsight is 20-20 but had I known prior to the storm and aftermath how rapidly society can collapse, I would have done more than a few things differently. I tend to get scrambled when talking about Katrina but when everything you know as a functional city, leadership, infrastructure, services etc..disappears over night..shit gets real. Real bad and real quick. I attempted to 'walk' to work the same day as landfall to see if it was still standing. We had 3-5 ft of water in some areas of the west bank..so much was lost in the media because they rarely distinguished the difference or fact that there is a West and East bank separated by the Mississippi river here. At first on day 1 I was thinking well we made it and the worst was over. Major wind damage but light rain and it appeared that the levees had held in the first few hours. We along with the gulf coast had been through this before, figured we'd be rebuilding in a couple of days. That began to change rather rapidly. I reached the Parish line walking down the middle of the road and as I got close to a strip mall near work I heard screaming and saw at least 8 to 12 guys running around and riding bikes out of the area. I stood on the levee and started to make a b line along it as the main road was gone. Trying to get into building from rear. The next thing I know it was literally a scene out of some fookin movie and THE moment shit got real. The same what were clearly looters had made it to me and riding in circles. Three stopped before I hit the levee, (aka out of sight)..pulling at their pants and covering faces with bandanas and yelled "are you a cop white boy"..I shouted back "do I look like a fuckin cop". It was the first thing that popped into my head. I wasn't confirming a target and left them guessing. They stood there for a minute and said nothing and the group road off. That moment right there, that instant, told me this wasn't just another 'storm'. The only people left in this city were the poor, the infirmed, the idiots who stayed to ride it out or had rides leave them in the middle of the night (me ) and the criminals. Its hard to explain but you go into a minute to minute way of thinking, adapting and you get primal. By day 2 talk of the water rising was there. The wal mart was openly looted, the Wal Greens was being smashed and still zero police presence. That night you started hearing the distinct sound of pop pop pop the next street over. Then random automatic gun fire late at night. Then the frantic scramble for gas and literally ANY car that was mobile began. I had a POS Honda at the time that would not have made the drive, but it had fuel. Thugs were going around 'punching tanks' on cars syphoning the gas. Windows crashing became hourly. My intent was to get as far as I could on I-90..out of that shit hole ASAP..only to find the roads still underwater and blocked by trees and debris. I had to turn around and hunker down another night. You were being watched, packs of guys looking for anything they could get around here. When I pulled into the neighborhood I made it a point to 'be seen' acting like the car stalled out and ran out of gas. Even though I still had a quarter tank. I pushed it so it would block the front windows and didn't want it stolen or looted. A few cops began showing up on 3rd day but there was no order of operation. Literally just a couple squad cars with police as lost as we were. Frantic. They had no clue what was happening. One had approached a group of looters on Gen. DeGaulle road and was shot in the back of the head, no back up, no nothing. The single car near our road had two officers in it that were panicked. A female rookie was balling her eyes out and the senior said they had to leave area and wait for military to arrive. Again..zero officials or City government to be heard of. YOU were on your own save for a few neighbors who banded together once night came. I spent the last two days waiting on a co worker to drive in so we could evacuate the few dogs remaining at work. He came with two family friends who were retired Jefferson Parish officers and in full tactical gear. The shit was surreal. I turned around in the doorway convinced I'd never see it again, gave a box of remaining water and food to the one neighbor left refusing to leave and split. We literally loaded dogs into a horse trailer under armed guard hearing sporadic shots going off from different directions. As we headed out we passed the Mall which was still being looted and was now fully ablaze as were other buildings. I'm not a gun nut, but I will never ever be that vulnerable and left relying on inept City or State Government again. I purchased a .590 and 9mm for the trip back. More importantly though..when cat. 5 hurricane comes..GET OUT! Evacuate. Lessons learned. Massively long winded here mate. I don't think I've taken the proper time to process some of that shit. Cheers

So surreal had to remind myself- you aren't writing fiction.
Work with me bro ok?
#1. If I were in your shoes- man, I'd probably do the same. But I'd have gone machete style- knives, Chinese stars, brass knuckles- In case I had to pull the trigger and ran outtta ammo.
#2. Think this over and please respond: as a man I admire once told me_ the difference between crime today & yesterday is someone can report it for our era..with that said.
Would U? Could U see a difference if U are walking down a street in Chicago- but it's the 1920's...No Black Gangster disciples, no El Rukns, no Bloods or Crips
BUT
their is Lucchese family, the Bonanno family, the Gambino family, the Colombo family, and the Genovese family

No guys riding on bikes circling to see if U got gas in the car- but there are names that made it in the paper- and they run something called rackets: Johnny Torin, Dion O’Banion, Bugs Moran, Tony Accardo, Salvatore Luciano , Al Capone, Myra Lanski.

My point is- it seems like every era- there is some deep shit the people endure from rotten human beings. I just wonder if U had those guns U got now--BACK THEN...and those cats were in your face.

Would those guns make U feel safe?
I understand that was yesterday- but I'd rebut- we've had guns since the colt45 & yes: protection with a firearm seems to even shit out in some ways- but in other ways- the bad guys always seems to get more (every era)
Serious question- think it out & I will read every word.

[El Kabong]

the bad guys always seems to get more (every era)

Probably because the bad guys aren't following laws so they can get firearms considered "illegal" or they can make "illegal" modifications to their firearms in some cases making them deadlier.

Example...

[SlimTrae]

the bad guys always seems to get more (every era)

Probably because the bad guys aren't following laws so they can get firearms considered "illegal" or they can make "illegal" modifications to their firearms in some cases making them deadlier.

Example...

I'd say bad guys get access to all kinds of guns. Making modifications only occur after they get a hold of them.

Again: how do they get a hold of these guns, be they legal or illegally modified?
I'd say the same way--- guys got a hold of guns in the 1800s when train robberies became a norm- but rather than call it white on white crime- it was called: The Wild Wild West.

I'd say the same way guys got a hold of guns in the early 1900s that caused politicians to expand government to what we today call the Federal Bureau of Investigation. But rather than call it a problem of gangs and mafia- it was called: The Roaring 20's.

In fact, by the late 1930's-1940's--guns in the hands of black men like Ellsworth Johnson aka Bumpy- allowed him to fight it out with Doc Shultz on behalf of Madame Queen and became the 1st negro to ally himself with the Italian mob via Lucky Luciano and the national crime syndicate.
Point: Bumpy didn't make modifications to guns. He simply obtained them from those who purchased them (legally) -and those guns compromised the killings of blacks at the hands of Jewish & Italian mob gangs. Guns in those days were used by black gangs- to protect the neighborhood from (non) black gangs.


This black woman obtained guns for her protector_ Bumpy---didn't access the guns (legally). Just like with today...

Yesterday illegal guns weren't used for black on black crime via gangs. They were used to kill non-black gangs that police did nothing about.
Today blacks kill black- some by gangs. But gangs aren't the same as yesteryear- today they are called clicks- which means little loyalty to any one person of power. Overall this tells me that gangs don't make guns, distribute them or modify them. Gangs simply respond to the conditions the society produces. So whether there are gangs or drugs...guns will always be made by manufacturers- who sell them (legally) to people who obtain them illegally. Proof dated all the way back to the 1800's. I am just sad that we don't have the Queen Madam to use these (illegal) guns for the benefit of the communities that keep gaining access to these weapons.

[greynotsoold]

I think about 175 would be good. There would be more but I dont see the point in the very light caliber rifles or the very large caliber handguns.

[El Kabong]

The Culture of Violence in the American West: Myth versus Reality: The Independent Review: The Independent Institute


The "Wild" West, pfffft more like The "Mild" West

[SlimTrae]

The Culture of Violence in the American West: Myth versus Reality: The Independent Review: The Independent Institute


The "Wild" West, pfffft more like The "Mild" West

I stand by the claim that bad guys get access to all kinds of guns- including the 1800's- there is no era innocent or free from killers; none.


This (sole-single) link you gave -by Anderson, Hill & Umbeck, backed by a Bruce Benson gives you the confidence to say the “West was not violent?
I focused on (2) things:
1. Their claims
2. Their sources for such claims (they gave quite a few references at the end )

As I read-Something stood out- like sweaty buttocks: ass open: I noticed_ ALL of the material can be dated 1860-1890
Are the writers insinuating that :
the West wasn't wild until 1860-1890? then they blame Indians for it?

Every historical source I've come across are in agreement that by the 1880's the Vaudeville shows were a success- because it allowed the old WEST to be relived on stage. the Anny Oakleys of the world went on tour- acting out a time that had come and gone- BUT according to the writer(s) of the link U provided, the west --just got wild? Did I miss any references? At the bottom they all detail 3 decades- that's it.


They refuse to site the names of criminals during the 1800's. I mean even I know that some of the stories were embellished. Yet the names are real. Wyatt Earp to Johnny Ringo, Billy the Kid, Abran Baca the Outlaw who was lynched by a vigilante committee, his brother Antonio Baca: killed by authorities to James Malone executed for murder.


But this article says fuck even acknowledging those names. Why? These criminals came after the invention of the camera- - they took photos- so we know they existed!! At least put their names out in this article then invent/lie makeup some shit as how/why Hollywood took their 2 or 3 killings and turned them into 2 or 300. But, no. They said fuck it all together.

Index of Old West Outlaws - M
The above link is one of (many) records that government had- in order to pursue those who did have guns and used them illegally.


Then this link U have pissed all over the government for what they did to Indians --and they pulled it off without having to name people- (blame the government but not the soldiers who executed what the government asked them to do-...then if indians respond- well then- THAT is the west going wild?

Indians killin' mofos. Speed up to 2015- black killing mofo's -outside of these two- it appears that writer wants me to think guns haven't caused problems in America, they prevent them.

ALL of their resources hinges on the Lincoln era. No wonder they claim the west wasnt wild- they did no fucking research on it (the 1800's)-

They researched the end of the 1800's- 1860-1890, then zeroed in on the effects of the civil war & the profiteers- Republicans, Lincoln and a few families- the ones that when I name them- I'm called a liberal...well now these guys are tearing the booty lining outta republican politicians just to claim- the west wasnt wild.


By their perspective of looking at 1860-1890, I'd begrudgingly agree with them. However if they look at how many guns were owned by common people since the advent of mass producing them. They'd have to ask, what for? Why do you need guns in an era that isn't (WILD)?
- Let me re-read over one other point they mentioned---brb...

[SlimTrae]

This article isn't rewriting history rather it is ignoring it- in order to deflect the evil that gun-toters brought to this continent. This seems true when the article sites this: It is untrue that white European settlers were always at war with Indians, as popular folklore contends. After all, Indians assisted the Pilgrims and celebrated the first Thanksgiving with them;

Really? How many tribes sat down and ate squash with these puritans?

And what about France, Italy Holland, Spain; several European nations were already here. Did they partake in this feast? How does this writer pretend that ALL INDIANS celebrated with Pilgrim taking puritans? That is geographically impossible. Cherokee & Pochanatans is all he named-he's short by about a hundred or so tribes.

The writer then continues cleaning up history with this: As Jennifer Roback has written, “Europeans generally acknowledged that the Indians retained possessory rights to their lands. By the twentieth century, some $800 million had been paid for Indian lands.


When did this begin? early or late 1800s? and what was the natives supposed to do with paper printed with words they had no fucking clue of?

They weren't allowed on the premise(s) of these lands so called paid for. And paper currency is meant as a debt for trade of resources- well shit: resources are apart of the land. So why would they need paper to access that which was stolen/bought for?

And why does the diaries of pilgrims contradict this? The narration of the Mayflower rejects this all day long. By 1640 the Narragansett tribe to name one- were betrayed by the children of the 1st generation of the Mayflower- The writer(s) of this seems oblivious to King Phillip's war- Natives were long at odds with Puritans before the 1860...this dude has to be on some meth or something to even pretend... Natives were long at odds with puritans and those who came afterward 1700's and on.

Why does the founder of Rhode Island aka Roger Williams the 1st baptist contradict this? He wrote the blood tenant in which he CLEARLY stated he was to be kicked out of the colonies for bad mouthing Massachusetts for stealing land from the natives. Not according to this link- shit; they paid for land.

The writer(s) would have me believe Indians were paid well for their land- yet they still did (something) to create the (wild) for the western territory. Based on Lincoln & a reference to a link in this article called him (NOT SO HONEST) Abe.

a quote from it: We are not going to let a few thieving, ragged Indians check and stop the progress [of the railroads],” Sherman wrote to Ulysses S. Grant in 1867 (qtd. in Fellman 1995, 264

Well if there are just a few..and they are ragged- how do they contribute to the west becoming (WILD)?

W*rites Benson, “[t]here were few instances of violence on the wagon trains even when food became extremely scarce and starvation threatened.

In other words: never have Europeans manifested primal behavior- even in the worst of times- they were civil.

The contractual system of law effectively generated cooperation rather than conflict, and effectively quelled through nonviolent means” (1998, 105).



So there it is. The West wasn't wild, so guns weren't a problem. And when it became wild- blame the Indians. As today blame the gangs which are primarily African-American.

In reality- The west was wild, the 1920's were roaring with gangs, mafia driven and today guns are still able to find the hands of evildoers as in the past. EVIL--- To whom belong no specific people, be they black, white,, red male or female exists in all eras. And when guns are plenty- they get their fair share.

Since we want to be a nation of gun-toters- the least we can do: is ensure those who get them legally- should have the right to carry them--and as many. But if they choose to sell them- how the heck do they not become responsible for what becomes them? We should learn from the Wild West, the Roaring 20's that too many guns produced will fall into the hands of sick & evil.

Have the right to bare arms- but have the godliness to ensure none of our brethren or neighbors sell them to the unfaithful, the crazy, the sick, the evil just for a profit.

[SlimTrae]

Any/all profanity is used for entertainment purposes and not stated toward you or about you. Just my ghetto nature.

[SlimTrae]

The Complete List of Old West Outlaws
Too many criminals during the 1800's way too many.

[El Kabong]

The Complete List of Old West Outlaws
Too many criminals during the 1800's way too many.

Yeah back when stealing cattle was a crime worthy of HANGING


I wonder how many criminals there are today...
North Texas Crime Commission

That's JUST North Dallas although it says "North Texas"