Britain vote to leave the EU

[Gandalf]

Okay, so people voted on the basis of immigration and wanting to stop the free movement of people - but why base a vote on that when even the leaders of the Brexit campaign are admitting that the vote to leave will have no impact on this particular aspect? I just wish those fucking Anglo-Saxons would fuck off where they came from and give me my country back. I just want to feel like I'm a Celtic Briton without this ridiculous influx of foreigners.

They are already winding in the promises of 350 million extra per week for the NHS.

What annoys me is that so much of the vote was based on issues that will not be affected by the decision to leave the EU. And now we'll all have to work harder and longer to maintain the same standard of living, or accept that it is going to deteriorate.

Why is anything going to deteriorate? Hasn't that already happened in recent years? Being a part of the EU has nothing to do with that. It's about self determination at the end of the day. Why people have such a thing for something that looks like the former Soviet Union is baffling. The short term effect on markets is what it is, but unless you are invested in stocks and shares or have a vested interest in exchange rates, then it shouldn't matter too much. I happen to like the exchange rate myself. Britain has a trade deficit with the EU, so they have more to lose. The globe is a much more positive place for the Brits to trade with as Europeans are broke and the UK does much better there.

The problem the UK has is its voting system. In direct democracy you hear the will of the people. In a system of seats, the system is much more easily rigged in favor of the 3 main parties who are laughing at people really. If nothing changes it is because those parties are not willing to listen. Already the Tories are stalling on leaving the EU and it will take years to set it in motion. Then Labour is off its rocker saying it's Corbyn's fault that the core doesn't like Blairism. All Labour really needs to do is listen and admit a few errors. In the 1980's Labour was against the EU. That Labour would do well today.

Basically I don't see what you are complaining about Rhun as nothing has changed except for the markets wetting the bed a little bit. There are plenty of things people can do to hedge against that, so I have little sympathy there.

[Beanz]

Okay, so people voted on the basis of immigration and wanting to stop the free movement of people - but why base a vote on that when even the leaders of the Brexit campaign are admitting that the vote to leave will have no impact on this particular aspect? I just wish those fucking Anglo-Saxons would fuck off where they came from and give me my country back. I just want to feel like I'm a Celtic Briton without this ridiculous influx of foreigners.

They are already winding in the promises of 350 million extra per week for the NHS.

What annoys me is that so much of the vote was based on issues that will not be affected by the decision to leave the EU. And now we'll all have to work harder and longer to maintain the same standard of living, or accept that it is going to deteriorate.

Why is anything going to deteriorate? Hasn't that already happened in recent years? Being a part of the EU has nothing to do with that. It's about self determination at the end of the day. Why people have such a thing for something that looks like the former Soviet Union is baffling. The short term effect on markets is what it is, but unless you are invested in stocks and shares or have a vested interest in exchange rates, then it shouldn't matter too much. I happen to like the exchange rate myself. Britain has a trade deficit with the EU, so they have more to lose. The globe is a much more positive place for the Brits to trade with as Europeans are broke and the UK does much better there.

The problem the UK has is its voting system. In direct democracy you hear the will of the people. In a system of seats, the system is much more easily rigged in favor of the 3 main parties who are laughing at people really. If nothing changes it is because those parties are not willing to listen. Already the Tories are stalling on leaving the EU and it will take years to set it in motion. Then Labour is off its rocker saying it's Corbyn's fault that the core doesn't like Blairism. All Labour really needs to do is listen and admit a few errors. In the 1980's Labour was against the EU. That Labour would do well today.

Basically I don't see what you are complaining about Rhun as nothing has changed except for the markets wetting the bed a little bit. There are plenty of things people can do to hedge against that, so I have little sympathy there.

You have little sympathy because you do not live in the UK let alone in Wales or one of the regions in which your fantasy world does not exist. The repercussions for education alone are massive and now the front runners to take over running the country are two absolute heartless ignorant fools, Gove and IDS who have already wreaked havoc and destroyed the lives of so many. My kids and grandkids will not have the freedom to go and work in Europe like I did, the students I support will see their chances of gainful employment fade to nothing and everything will be privatized. You will not countenance anything but your own distorted view of a country you left years ago impacting on your clouded view of reality but you are way off he mark here. Clueless.

[Gandalf]

Your children will still be able to live and work overseas, so I do not understand that argument. At the end of the day if you don't want the Tories then don't vote for them. How is being in an undemocratic institution like the EU meant to solve anything? It is incapable of reform. They offer a few trinkets, but that does not justify it.

If people would rally around Corbyn they might stand a chance, but I see he is busy fending off snakes. Get Labour in and forget about the EU. It's an uphill battle because Labour has lost Scotland and people know it's full of snakes. I have sympathy about that, but not about stock markets or the EU. Rather than fantasy it is just reality.

[Britkid]

Your children will still be able to live and work overseas, so I do not understand that argument. At the end of the day if you don't want the Tories then don't vote for them. How is being in an undemocratic institution like the EU meant to solve anything? It is incapable of reform. They offer a few trinkets, but that does not justify it.

If people would rally around Corbyn they might stand a chance, but I see he is busy fending off snakes. Get Labour in and forget about the EU. It's an uphill battle because Labour has lost Scotland and people know it's full of snakes. I have sympathy about that, but not about stock markets or the EU. Rather than fantasy it is just reality.

The EU is far more democratic than the UK. We in the UK do not have a say who governs us in the executive nor do we have any say who is in the upper house. Money is the only way to have influence on this.

The only Democracy the UK offers for free is the chance have a say in who is the representative of 1/650th of the lower house. It is likely that, that representative shall win their election by picking up less than 50% of those who vote for them, and yet that is better than other scenario which sees many seats already resolved before a vote is even given, as it is shown time and time again a hundred seats tops, decide the makeup of the lower house. So you have around 100/650 chance of being relevant to have a 1/60,000 influence in deciding 1/100 of the seats that mould the executive.

So without money the citizen of the UK has no democratic input into the Executive; that is for the Monarch to decide; has no input into the upper house; that is for the Executive to decide; and has on average a 1/39,250,000 influence on the makeup of the lower house...

At least EU elections (for the lower house) are done on proportional representation, thus you do not have to be voting for the seats that are relevant to the executive's makeup.

[Gandalf]

Your children will still be able to live and work overseas, so I do not understand that argument. At the end of the day if you don't want the Tories then don't vote for them. How is being in an undemocratic institution like the EU meant to solve anything? It is incapable of reform. They offer a few trinkets, but that does not justify it.

If people would rally around Corbyn they might stand a chance, but I see he is busy fending off snakes. Get Labour in and forget about the EU. It's an uphill battle because Labour has lost Scotland and people know it's full of snakes. I have sympathy about that, but not about stock markets or the EU. Rather than fantasy it is just reality.

The EU is far more democratic than the UK. We in the UK do not have a say who governs us in the executive nor do we have any say who is in the upper house. Money is the only way to have influence on this.

The only Democracy the UK offers for free is the chance have a say in who is the representative of 1/650th of the lower house. It is likely that, that representative shall win their election by picking up less than 50% of those who vote for them, and yet that is better than other scenario which sees many seats already resolved before a vote is even given, as it is shown time and time again a hundred seats tops, decide the makeup of the lower house. So you have around 100/650 chance of being relevant to have a 1/60,000 influence in deciding 1/100 of the seats that mould the executive.

So without money the citizen of the UK has no democratic input into the Executive; that is for the Monarch to decide; has no input into the upper house; that is for the Executive to decide; and has on average a 1/39,250,000 influence on the makeup of the lower house...

At least EU elections (for the lower house) are done on proportional representation, thus you do not have to be voting for the seats that are relevant to the executive's makeup.

That isn't democratic at all then. So why is there no revolution to crash it all down? That was historically how things get fixed. The UK has issues. A bloody monarchy too? What's that all about? House of Lords. The UK system does suck a tad.

[Britkid]

That isn't democratic at all then. So why is there no revolution to crash it all down? That was historically how things get fixed. The UK has issues. A bloody monarchy too? What's that all about? House of Lords. The UK system does suck a tad.

The UK does not do Revolution; whenever crisis arises the Monarch/Executive sells minor changes as the resolution to the problem, if that does not work they spin the fear of change as another answer. Some minor asides, these tactics have worked since the Union has begun, this is the first time it has seemingly failed in over three hundred years. There maybe interesting times ahead...

[superheavyrhun]

Why is anything going to deteriorate? Hasn't that already happened in recent years? Being a part of the EU has nothing to do with that. It's about self determination at the end of the day. Why people have such a thing for something that looks like the former Soviet Union is baffling. The short term effect on markets is what it is, but unless you are invested in stocks and shares or have a vested interest in exchange rates, then it shouldn't matter too much.

Miles, you have to remember that these aspects do not live in isolation. A drop in the exchange rate is fine for ex-pats who get paid in foreign currencies as you do, but those who have pensions in the UK are going to be suffering significantly from the drop.

There are also so many commodities that we in the UK are effectively going to be paying more for - we do not produce enough energy, and around 40% is imported from various countries, including France and Russia. The drop in the value of the pound makes all of these imports, and we are talking tens of billions of pounds per year, all proportionally more expensive. Energy costs are one of the largest parts of what people spend every year, and an increase there means that they will have less money to spend on other parts of their lifestyle. That is why I say that it will deteriorate.

Follow this with the increased costs that our businesses are going to be facing in terms of production because of the increased energy costs, and that is going to make things more expensive. It's not only domestic products and services that will be more expensive, but anything imported will cost more, as we will still be buying things at their prices, and more pounds will be required for each unit of currency. Plus any trade deals we negotiate with the EU now will not be on terms as favourable as the ones we had, so the tariffs we pay will be higher too.

Not to mention the fact that I have no trust whatsoever in the wishy washy promises of the leave camp, who said that all of the subsidies and support provided to different industries through the EU will be replicated by the UK government. The repercussions of our farmers not getting the same levels of support could also see our food prices increasing as these costs will be passed on to the consumer, along with the increases that come with the increased costs of energy used in production.



But of course, I am pleased that you are enjoying the greater number of pounds you get when you grace us with your presence in the UK.

[X]

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[Britkid]

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And as I mentioned one day we may get a 'decent form' of democracy, where the people without the need to pay, get a say in the upper house and executive...

[Gandalf]

Why is anything going to deteriorate? Hasn't that already happened in recent years? Being a part of the EU has nothing to do with that. It's about self determination at the end of the day. Why people have such a thing for something that looks like the former Soviet Union is baffling. The short term effect on markets is what it is, but unless you are invested in stocks and shares or have a vested interest in exchange rates, then it shouldn't matter too much.

Miles, you have to remember that these aspects do not live in isolation. A drop in the exchange rate is fine for ex-pats who get paid in foreign currencies as you do, but those who have pensions in the UK are going to be suffering significantly from the drop.

There are also so many commodities that we in the UK are effectively going to be paying more for - we do not produce enough energy, and around 40% is imported from various countries, including France and Russia. The drop in the value of the pound makes all of these imports, and we are talking tens of billions of pounds per year, all proportionally more expensive. Energy costs are one of the largest parts of what people spend every year, and an increase there means that they will have less money to spend on other parts of their lifestyle. That is why I say that it will deteriorate.

Follow this with the increased costs that our businesses are going to be facing in terms of production because of the increased energy costs, and that is going to make things more expensive. It's not only domestic products and services that will be more expensive, but anything imported will cost more, as we will still be buying things at their prices, and more pounds will be required for each unit of currency. Plus any trade deals we negotiate with the EU now will not be on terms as favourable as the ones we had, so the tariffs we pay will be higher too.

Not to mention the fact that I have no trust whatsoever in the wishy washy promises of the leave camp, who said that all of the subsidies and support provided to different industries through the EU will be replicated by the UK government. The repercussions of our farmers not getting the same levels of support could also see our food prices increasing as these costs will be passed on to the consumer, along with the increases that come with the increased costs of energy used in production.



But of course, I am pleased that you are enjoying the greater number of pounds you get when you grace us with your presence in the UK.

I don't really understand why you are worrying about your pension when it comes to Brexit. It is a short term shock to the exchange rate and markets and it will likely correct itself. Granted it is good for me to have a poor exchange rate, but I don't think for a moment it will stay at this level for long. I think what you should be more concerned about is the central bank, bankrupt banks and the perpetually low interest rates being used to keep them all alive. Japan for instance isn't in decline because it is not part of a Super Asia Alliance.

In terms of energy. Well, the UK is nuts for not producing any energy and having privatised everything. Your bills are already expensive and privatisation happened because nobody bothered to resist. You know what happens here? They burn coal and it is nationalised. It also means the bills are cheap. Again, you can't really blame Brexit for 30 years of neo-liberalism.

Russia was put on a sanctions list and recently they also had a currency 'crisis'. Their response was to raise interest rates and start growing and manufacturing. The Russian economy has no debt, they have plenty of gold reserves, they are becoming the worlds largest organic food provider in the world. A stand alone Britain will face some short term pain, but it could work in the national interest if the people start to stand up for their own interests. Being able to reject a narrative of fear and a short term hit to the pocket is a healthy sign. Grow food and be self sustaining. Quit with the property nonsense. The houses are old and full of damp.

The difference between Britain and Russia is large though as Britain has few people working in the interests of the people as seen with fracking, banking, privatisation, wars, tuition fees, NHS privatisation etc. The government is a large corporation and that is why living standards are declining. Blaming a referendum when the ills are decades long and systemic just doesn't ring true. Weather the short term hit, it's not like you are retiring any time soon. It's up to the people to change the system and get Corbyn in, but 'they' are doing their hardest to curtail that too right now.

I wish you well, I really do.

[Master]

I voted to leave and am glad I did but the repercussions are worrying because no one is taking control, ownership and providing stability.

Cameron ran off crying.

Conservatives are trying to find a leader.

Boris is hiding in a corner somewhere.

Corbyn has no one in the shadow cabinet working for him.

Scottish and Irish want to leave us

Politicians have no balls.

[Gandalf]

My concern is that Cameron started all this but doesn't have the guts to see it through, then on the other side you have Labour going through some kind of manufactured crisis at a time when their leader is popular with the core and the Tories are on the ropes. You couldn't make it up.

I hope the country rallies behind Corbyn. I always said I would come back for a bit if Corbyn became PM and it's now looking like a life in permanent exile. I think he would be great for the country. He understands the banking system and war machine and they know it whence the desperation to topple him.

[Master]

The only MP with any balls is Nicola Sturgeon.

Nicola Sturgeon: 'Project Farce has begun' - BBC News

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

The only MP with any balls is Nicola Sturgeon.

Nicola Sturgeon: 'Project Farce has begun' - BBC News

She is legit. I like her.

Not like that.

[Memphis]

I did have a laugh at the silver spoon teenage mobs berating the old for 'ruining their future'. Good work, blame someone else, dissolve any sense of responsibility and then regurgitate some poster from a mildly amusing chap who says 'if all you have is 2 GCSE's and an STI........you get the rest'. Nice dose of lost hypocrisy.

Another exchange of pleasantries saw a 16 year old girl shriek 'If I was able to vote........after all, I know more about Politics than anyone voting leave!'.