Israel has suspended ties with 12 UN Security Council countries

[TitoFan]

It's academic, Lyle. No sense arguing about this when Palestine is about to obliterate Israel with their vicious rock-throwing.

[El Kabong]

It's academic, Lyle. No sense arguing about this when Palestine is about to obliterate Israel with their vicious rock-throwing.

Not really the point I'm trying to make TitoFan it's more of a the UN resolution seemed to bolster the Palestinians who believe in violent attacks and President Obama along with Sec. of State John Kerry HELPED and ENCOURAGED this UN resolution.

But those sources which you give the thumbs up to cite....you're going to give me that list so this kind of thing never happens again OR would you rather I play the guessing game and you can just dismiss anything I post on a whim?





We'll just do the whim thing, it seems much more your style

[TitoFan]

It's academic, Lyle. No sense arguing about this when Palestine is about to obliterate Israel with their vicious rock-throwing.

Not really the point I'm trying to make TitoFan it's more of a the UN resolution seemed to bolster the Palestinians who believe in violent attacks and President Obama along with Sec. of State John Kerry HELPED and ENCOURAGED this UN resolution.

But those sources which you give the thumbs up to cite....you're going to give me that list so this kind of thing never happens again OR would you rather I play the guessing game and you can just dismiss anything I post on a whim?





We'll just do the whim thing, it seems much more your style

No, not whim. Sarcasm. It's the only thing what works with you because it's obvious logic and civil arguments don't work.
So since you seem so willing to "accommodate" to my style, let's just do sarcasm.

[El Kabong]

No, not whim. Sarcasm. It's the only thing what works with you because it's obvious logic and civil arguments don't work.
So since you seem so willing to "accommodate" to my style, let's just do sarcasm.

Well OOOOOOOOOO KAAAAAAAAAAAY.




sarcastic enough?

[TitoFan]

No, not whim. Sarcasm. It's the only thing what works with you because it's obvious logic and civil arguments don't work.
So since you seem so willing to "accommodate" to my style, let's just do sarcasm.

Well OOOOOOOOOO KAAAAAAAAAAAY.




sarcastic enough?

Yes, thank you.


Seriously though, it's quite simple.

You toe the party line when it comes to Israel, thinking they can do no wrong. I'm not saying that's necessarily bad, it's just your opinion. You also feel the U.S. is better off backing Israel regardless of circumstances, regardless of whether or not it pisses off the entire Arab world. Fair enough? You also feel all of the conflicts between Israel and the Palestinians are the Palestinians' fault. Does that pretty much wrap it up?

Me, on the other hand, feel it's naive to think of Israel as the eternal victims, and feel (oops.... I just realize you don't like the word "feel") that as in most global conflicts, there's blame to go around on both sides. I also feel that the U.S., a third party to this conflict, would be better served as being a bit more neutral, so as to not encourage the hatred that it has traditionally encouraged from the radical Arab world.


Those are plainly-stated, respectful, honest personal opinions.


Now.... if forum history is any indication, your "witty", condescending, patronizing response to ME is due in just about 4..... 3..... 2.....

[El Kabong]

Israel is America's closest Ally in the region....the Arab and Persian world need to understand that and respect it. Israel offers up olive branches all the time to the Palestinians, historically that has been the case and historically when they do that the attacks on Israel increase.

Was the founding of Israel perfect? No. The UK won the area in World War I from the Ottoman Empire. After World War II they handed control of the area to the United Nations. What happened was UN Resolution 181

Future constitution and government of Palestine: A. TERMINATION OF MANDATE, PARTITION AND INDEPENDENCE: Clause 3 provides:

Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, ... shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948.

The Arab countries opposed the plan (shocking I know) but they lost the vote as 33 countries or 72% voted FOR the plan.


Right after Israel declared Independence and when that happened you get the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. On 15 May 1948, Iraq and the neighboring Arab states, Egypt, Jordan (Transjordan) and Syria, invaded what had just ceased to be the territory of the British Mandate, and immediately attacked Jewish settlements..

Israel kicked the shit out of the Arab League and has done every time they attacked afterwards.




So OK, Israel isn't founded in the easiest way for everyone I agree. Israel wins a big war vs the Arab League that the Arab League started so right away you're getting off on a bad foot with the neighbors. Israel doesn't have much oil compared to other nations in the area but the guys make their money and Israel is quite successful. The people understand all of this, they have offered Palestine a Nation State 3 times and 3 times Palestine declined the offer.


Here's the point of this whole deal.....how long are we going to sit here and just allow this feud to go on? I mean Israel COULD destroy Palestine 20 times over if they wanted to. This is like a Tyson KO victim getting up after the fight and telling Mike Tyson "I'm going to beat you up now!".....Israel has the land, if they had lost the war in 1948 I doubt Israel would be complaining today because it wouldn't exist but the people would just learn to live with it or they would immigrate somewhere. I tell you what they wouldn't do....throw rocks, dig tunnels to attack the Palestinians, kidnap and murder Palestinians, fire rockets from school yards, hide behind hospitals and daycare centers.



Israel won the war, if they were to fight again Israel would win. Israel has offered them peace but it keeps getting rejected....Palestine needs to grow up they will never win.

[TitoFan]

If your reasoning for U.S. support of Israel stems from Israel being a close ally of the U.S., which I understand involves many areas including some like counter-terrorism, then ok... I can live with that. But when you add the circumstances around the founding of Israel by U.N. resolution, you go into the realm of "depends who you hear it from." Neither of us were there, so we all depend on literature on the subject, written by someone who may or may not have an agenda. As hard as it may be, it's up to us to try and separate the facts from the propaganda. In a previous post I pointed out the blatant unfairness of the Resolution, where more than half of Palestinian land was handed over to the Jewish state. This, regardless of the fact that Palestinians represented a vast majority of the population. "Either/Or". It depends who writes it and who reads it. There are credible journalists out there who favor the Israeli side, just as there are credible, reputable journalists out there who favor the Palestinian side. Regardless, to just surmise that the Arabs as a whole have this inborn hatred of the Israelis for no reason at all, seems a bit naive to me. Just out of the blue, the Palestinians began this hatred of Israel. I don't buy that. When Palestinians fight, they fight dirty... yes. They fire rockets from school yards, and I as well as most of the world find that deplorable. But it doesn't make me blindly support Israel in every issue that comes up. You said the Palestinians wanted the obliteration of Israel. I've read where the first PM of Israel wanted the same thing for the Palestinians. Six of one... half a dozen of the other. Again, I seriously doubt Israel is blameless in this whole issue, and they've shown they can be pretty aggressive and violent in their own right. I just think that the U.S. should not be in the business of creating enemies. There's enough of those to go around. When the U.S. meddles in other countries' conflicts and affairs, they're inviting even more enemies.