Vasyl Lomachenko is P4P #1

[Gandalf]

I'm not a big fan of p4p nonsense , and Loma has a fair shout , but to say Ward and Kovalev weren't impressive is not only unfair, but pretty ridiculous.
You have to take quality of opposition into consideration and basically 2 of the the top 3 were fighting each other. You could look at it a different way and say Ward and Kov were both impressive, and Ward beat a top 2 or 3 P4p guy so should be no.1 ? And Kov was an unlucky loser against the no.1 perhaps?

I disagree, I think Ward and Kovalev were unimpresive. They are both very limited fighters. The only unlimited fighter is someone who can throw a hundred punches a round and not get tired like Calzaghe. Even when slowed against someone like Hopkins he still throws and lands a lot more. Kovalev is a 40 punches a round guy and breathes heavy doing it and and Ward is even less active and clinches to get through it.

No fighter is perfect, but ward is in no way a limited fighter. Kovalev has his flaws sure but he is very good.

Is calzaghe the best fighter ever in your eyes?

Unbeatable really. A machine like no other. Only his hands could stop him and they helped him to evolve perfection.

[powerpuncher]

I'm not a big fan of p4p nonsense , and Loma has a fair shout , but to say Ward and Kovalev weren't impressive is not only unfair, but pretty ridiculous.
You have to take quality of opposition into consideration and basically 2 of the the top 3 were fighting each other. You could look at it a different way and say Ward and Kov were both impressive, and Ward beat a top 2 or 3 P4p guy so should be no.1 ? And Kov was an unlucky loser against the no.1 perhaps?

I disagree, I think Ward and Kovalev were unimpresive. They are both very limited fighters. The only unlimited fighter is someone who can throw a hundred punches a round and not get tired like Calzaghe. Even when slowed against someone like Hopkins he still throws and lands a lot more. Kovalev is a 40 punches a round guy and breathes heavy doing it and and Ward is even less active and clinches to get through it.

No fighter is perfect, but ward is in no way a limited fighter. Kovalev has his flaws sure but he is very good.

Is calzaghe the best fighter ever in your eyes?

Unbeatable really. A machine like no other. Only his hands could stop him and they helped him to evolve perfection.

I have no response

[Gandalf]

I'm not a big fan of p4p nonsense , and Loma has a fair shout , but to say Ward and Kovalev weren't impressive is not only unfair, but pretty ridiculous.
You have to take quality of opposition into consideration and basically 2 of the the top 3 were fighting each other. You could look at it a different way and say Ward and Kov were both impressive, and Ward beat a top 2 or 3 P4p guy so should be no.1 ? And Kov was an unlucky loser against the no.1 perhaps?

I disagree, I think Ward and Kovalev were unimpresive. They are both very limited fighters. The only unlimited fighter is someone who can throw a hundred punches a round and not get tired like Calzaghe. Even when slowed against someone like Hopkins he still throws and lands a lot more. Kovalev is a 40 punches a round guy and breathes heavy doing it and and Ward is even less active and clinches to get through it.

No fighter is perfect, but ward is in no way a limited fighter. Kovalev has his flaws sure but he is very good.

Is calzaghe the best fighter ever in your eyes?

Unbeatable really. A machine like no other. Only his hands could stop him and they helped him to evolve perfection.

I have no response

All of his opponents seemed that way too.

BTW, I think Lomachenko is easily the best fighter out there too. He has that Calzaghe brilliance to him. His one loss happened because he was fighting champions so early. Most fighters build up to a tough 12 rounder. He has it figured now.

[Alpha]

I thought Reid beat Calzaghe.

[powerpuncher]

Calzaghe was not a brilliant fighter. He was good for sure but not brilliant if you are comparing him to Loma. Loma is very technically sound. He is a good defensive fighter with good offensive instincts. He also was amazing footwork which is probably his best attribute.

Calzaghe just jumped in and threw a ton of punches. He had great stamina but his punches were more pitty Pat punches and his footwork and defense weren't particularly great.

Even if you think that calzaghe was one of the best, brilliant doesn't describe his fighting style. That would be more comparable to saying that Chavez was a brilliant fighter.

And ward would at least 9 rounds against calzaghe. Probably more but at least 9.

[Nameless]

The guy has dazzling reflexes and speed and the hell of a footwork. I don't know if he deserves the P4P but I think that it's not scandalous to think that he does deserve it. As long as he's in the top 3 P4P at the moment, I think that it could be considered fair enough.

[Gandalf]

Calzaghe was not a brilliant fighter. He was good for sure but not brilliant if you are comparing him to Loma. Loma is very technically sound. He is a good defensive fighter with good offensive instincts. He also was amazing footwork which is probably his best attribute.

Calzaghe just jumped in and threw a ton of punches. He had great stamina but his punches were more pitty Pat punches and his footwork and defense weren't particularly great.

Even if you think that calzaghe was one of the best, brilliant doesn't describe his fighting style. That would be more comparable to saying that Chavez was a brilliant fighter.

And ward would at least 9 rounds against calzaghe. Probably more but at least 9.

He was an extraordinary fighter, with a unique style. Sure he could be sloppy, sure he didn't hit the hardest, but how are you going to take rounds off him on a consistent enough basis to win a 12 round fight? Impossible. It isn't ballet, you don't win the fight based on the grace of your hook, or the snazzy way you roll after a punch, it's about hitting that man again and again and making sure he cannot land as much on you. Andre Ward with his 30 punches a round would be dazzled by Calzaghe. Ward is very limited. Calzaghe wouldn't give him the chance to breathe. Ward would make it ugly, but Calzaghe would be on him like a mental mosquito again and again and again. Ward struggled against a plodder in his last fight, put him in with someone with output, speed and intelligence and you will see him undone.

[powerpuncher]

Calzaghe was not a brilliant fighter. He was good for sure but not brilliant if you are comparing him to Loma. Loma is very technically sound. He is a good defensive fighter with good offensive instincts. He also was amazing footwork which is probably his best attribute.

Calzaghe just jumped in and threw a ton of punches. He had great stamina but his punches were more pitty Pat punches and his footwork and defense weren't particularly great.

Even if you think that calzaghe was one of the best, brilliant doesn't describe his fighting style. That would be more comparable to saying that Chavez was a brilliant fighter.

And ward would at least 9 rounds against calzaghe. Probably more but at least 9.

He was an extraordinary fighter, with a unique style. Sure he could be sloppy, sure he didn't hit the hardest, but how are you going to take rounds off him on a consistent enough basis to win a 12 round fight? Impossible. It isn't ballet, you don't win the fight based on the grace of your hook, or the snazzy way you roll after a punch, it's about hitting that man again and again and making sure he cannot land as much on you. Andre Ward with his 30 punches a round would be dazzled by Calzaghe. Ward is very limited. Calzaghe wouldn't give him the chance to breathe. Ward would make it ugly, but Calzaghe would be on him like a mental mosquito again and again and again. Ward struggled against a plodder in his last fight, put him in with someone with output, speed and intelligence and you will see him undone.

Ward is one of the top talents in the sport in the last 20 years. He did himself a disservice by not fighting for so long but he absolutely dominated a stacked 168 division. And for the record, did it much more impressively than calzaghe. You are far underrating ward and far overrating calzaghe.

I just can't take somebody seriously who says that Ward is a limited fighter.

And for the record, calzaghe would have ran into a huge shot from kovalev eventually and been put out. His defense wasn't good enough and kovalev has fight ending power.

[Gandalf]

I thought Reid beat Calzaghe.

A broken hand will make a fight closer, but think Calzaghe edged that. Maidana beat Mayweather on an off night too, these things happen. Reid is obviously not on a Calzaghe level.

[Alpha]

I thought Reid beat Calzaghe.

A broken hand will make a fight closer, but think Calzaghe edged that. Maidana beat Mayweather on an off night too, these things happen. Reid is obviously not on a Calzaghe level.

I had it 114-113 Reid when I watched it. But yeah Calzaghe had the better career.

[Gandalf]

I thought Reid beat Calzaghe.

A broken hand will make a fight closer, but think Calzaghe edged that. Maidana beat Mayweather on an off night too, these things happen. Reid is obviously not on a Calzaghe level.

I had it 114-113 Reid when I watched it. But yeah Calzaghe had the better career.

That's fair enough. It was a close fight and on the whole one of Calzaghe's lesser performances. Calzaghe was excellent in those days too when focused, but with the hand injuries he refined himself into something really different. It could have ended his career and at times seemed to be getting there, but he evolved that style which is hard for any fighter to prepare for. Sometimes it has been leveled that Calzaghe's resume is lacking, but you can flip that quite easily and say 'Well look at Kovalev's. He's been knocking everyone out but there is nobody there that Calzaghe would have had the minimal amount of difficult handling'. I don't like it when people put Calzaghe down because he was awesome and not only that but really gave his money's worth. I sometimes look at fighters filling out rounds or throwing a minimal amount and you never saw that with Calzaghe. Most of his fights are really exciting and when he stepped up he dazzled almost every time. Even at his sloppiest like against Mitchell it was FOTY material. Even in a gritty fight like against spoiler Hopkins he still massively outlanded him landing 232 punches as compared with Kovalev's 166. That was against a really brittle looking BHop and 38 came in the final round so it was something like 10 punches landed a round for 11 rounds. It's dismal really. Yet Kovalev is rated so highly by some, as is Ward who made his name off of Calzaghe leftovers. I rated Kov highly too and thought he was maybe just having an off day against Chilemba and took a breather against Hop, but he really seems to have forgotten how to put people away. He struggles after 6 and he hasn't even thrown a lot of punches. People suggest that Kovalev would stop Calzaghe or Ward would be too 'gifted' and it's absurd really. People are high on these fighters and forget just how good Calzaghe was. Ward and Kovalez are good, but they are no legends like Hopkins, Calzaghe, or Toney.