Prime George Foreman vs. Prime Joe Louis.

[El Kabong]

True genius and great. Never overrated.

No he is/was most certainly overrated...if Marciano or Louis had Ali's mouth (were Joe Louis ALLOWED to speak like that) then I'm thinking you'd have a change of heart.


Ali was always "I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest"....Marciano and Louis were quiet humble guys, no flashy flash about them at all, they just stepped in the ring, did a job, and when it was over they acted like regular people whereas Ali was selling everyone on Ali.


Just because he opposed the Vietnam War and hung out with the Nation of Islam doesn't mean he's the greatest boxer ever...it means he took a political and social stance and was given the time and air to keep up with his "I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest" chest beating 24/7/365.

[Master]

True genius and great. Never overrated.

No he is/was most certainly overrated...if Marciano or Louis had Ali's mouth (were Joe Louis ALLOWED to speak like that) then I'm thinking you'd have a change of heart.


Ali was always "I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest"....Marciano and Louis were quiet humble guys, no flashy flash about them at all, they just stepped in the ring, did a job, and when it was over they acted like regular people whereas Ali was selling everyone on Ali.


Just because he opposed the Vietnam War and hung out with the Nation of Islam doesn't mean he's the greatest boxer ever...it means he took a political and social stance and was given the time and air to keep up with his "I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest" chest beating 24/7/365.

I never mention what he said or what he did outside the ring as reasons for him being the best heavyweight ever.

His boxing record and what he accomplished in the ring against the opponent's he faced speaks for itself.

[El Kabong]

I never mention what he said or what he did outside the ring as reasons for him being the best heavyweight ever.

His boxing record and what he accomplished in the ring against the opponent's he faced speaks for itself.

It's still a factor...do you think for one second that Ali would be called the greatest if he wasn't as animated as he was or political as he was? He was a cult of personality.

And what Joe Louis accomplished in the ring speaks for itself, it had to, because Joe wasn't allowed to pump himself up at all. 25 successful title defenses in a row....25.....at a certain point it doesn't matter who you are fighting the shear amount of the people you've fought and beaten is impressive and yet nobody seems to accept that at all. Imagine it, Mike Tyson youngest ever heavyweight champion....everyone had to figure, "Well if there's a guy who could break Louis' record, if there's a guy who looks unbeatable for decades to come it's Tyson".....he couldn't do it and not even couldn't do it, he didn't even come close.

Larry Holmes had a great era to accomplish things better than Louis, he had all his prime, none of it taken away by prison or court rulings or war and he couldn't do it.

Joe Louis beat everyone in his era and a few folks coming into his era who were a lot younger than him...it's impressive, it's STATISTICALLY the best heavyweight title reign ergo he's the best heavyweight champion, EVER. 25 in a row, meanwhile Ali won the title what 3 times meaning he had to lose it a few times and win it back, which hey, it's great he could rebound like that Holyfield did that as well.


Again this is Louis vs Foreman.


I'm not a fan of Ali, he was a great boxer, but yes he's overrated due to his own self promotion....Joe Louis wasn't allowed to say he was the best, but at the end of the day he didn't have to say he's the best, his record says he's the best ergo he's the best.

[Master]

25 defences is a great achievement and no one can take that away from him and even if he ranted and raved he would still be 2nd in my book.

[TitoFan]

If we're comparing careers between Ali and Louis, it's hard to say because they both had defining victories in their illustrious careers. Ali's wins over Liston, Frazier, and Foreman can never be discounted nor taken away from him. One thing I do hold against him though, is how he managed to lose to the likes of Leon Spinks. Leon Spinks!!!! That he won the title back after that is irrevelant. How the f*** do you lose to a Leon Spinks? I give Ali credit for coming back and reinventing himself after his hiatus, going from a perpetual motion machine to setting down a little more on his punches. Ali wasn't the devastating puncher Louis was because he rarely committed his body entirely to the punch. So it's hard to say. Both were dominant in their eras. Both fought and beat feared fighters.

[El Kabong]

25 defences is a great achievement and no one can take that away from him and even if he ranted and raved he would still be 2nd in my book.

Yeah and I get that, I do....you're rating Ali's competition higher than Louis' and that's fine but I just see it differently and that too is fine. 25 consecutive successful title defenses is a tangible, measurable record....if Ali was dropped in Louis' era could he have accomplished that? We can guess but we'll never know. We DO know however Ali couldn't match the accomplishment in his own era.

[Master]

25 defences is a great achievement and no one can take that away from him and even if he ranted and raved he would still be 2nd in my book.

Yeah and I get that, I do....you're rating Ali's competition higher than Louis' and that's fine but I just see it differently and that too is fine. 25 consecutive successful title defenses is a tangible, measurable record....if Ali was dropped in Louis' era could he have accomplished that? We can guess but we'll never know. We DO know however Ali couldn't match the accomplishment in his own era.

We also know that Ali did not get knocked out and lose whilst he was young and up and coming fighter.

[El Kabong]

25 defences is a great achievement and no one can take that away from him and even if he ranted and raved he would still be 2nd in my book.

Yeah and I get that, I do....you're rating Ali's competition higher than Louis' and that's fine but I just see it differently and that too is fine. 25 consecutive successful title defenses is a tangible, measurable record....if Ali was dropped in Louis' era could he have accomplished that? We can guess but we'll never know. We DO know however Ali couldn't match the accomplishment in his own era.

We also know that Ali did not get knocked out and lose whilst he was young and up and coming fighter.

Because his trainer cut his glove to buy time....but sure