Should transgenered people be allowed to box?

[TitoFan]

Ronica Jeffrey: Undefeated at 11-0, Ronica is set to compete for the interim WIBA super featherweight title in April.

“Honestly, I don’t think that they should compete against women, because at the end of the day, naturally you are a man, and its unfair for the woman to have to go against someone who is that physically stronger than them. If that’s the case, then we should have co-ed boxing, which we don’t, and that is for a reason. I have nothing against them, and if it’s that serious, then transgendered should go against transgendered."


Mary McGee: Mary is 20-1 and next steps in the ring in May where she will meet up with Holly Holm in a battle for the IBA light welterweight title. Follow Mary on Twitter @marymcgee2586.

“It’s not fair to put a man up against a women in any sport. Transgender or not, naturally men are stronger than women. In some cases a woman can beat the odds, but I don’t think that would be fair. I would never in my life step in the ring with a man. He, in a real fight, might hurt me real bad. If they want to do the sport, do it with men.”


Kaliesha West: At 16-1, the popular West is the IFBA super bantamweight title holder, as well as the WBO bantamweight champ. She can be followed on Twitter @KWildWildWest

“I do not support this! I study in the medical field and have been working at a prestigious medical center for 6 years now (Loma Linda University), and its simple anatomy and physiology. Men are NATURALLY stronger than women!!!! THIS IS WRONG IN SO MANY WAYS! Men have larger hearts and lungs, and their higher levels of testosterone cause them to produce greater amounts of red blood cells. I’ve studied this already, and these statements written EVERYWHERE in anatomy articles, books, or studies only reiterate what I just stated.

Men usually have greater upper body strength, build muscle easily, have thicker skin, bruise less easily and have a lower threshold of awareness of injuries to their extremities. Men are essentially built for physical confrontation and the use of force. Their joints are well suited for throwing objects. A man’s skull is almost always thicker and stronger than a women’s.

If this Shim wants to compete, TELL HER TO JOIN THE MEN’s LEAGUE!!!! OH, and I don’t want to hear about her hormonal pills she has been taking for her gender change, ESTROGEN CAN NOT CHANGE THE SIZE OF YOUR NATURAL SKELETON.”


Holly Lawson: Holly is the 4th ranked welterweight in the world. She currently has a record of 5-2. You can follow her on Twitter @lilbearlawson.

“I feel that if they want to allow transgendered women to compete with women, they might as well start sanctioning men and women to fight in their respective weight classes. I think regardless of the procedures which one undergoes in such a situation, genetically they are still male. With that said, I wouldn’t turn down a fight if my opponent was discovered to be transgendered. Boxing isn’t about brute strength, it’s a science and a chess match.”



Amanda Serrano: The WIBA featherweight champion sports an impressive 17-1 record. She returns to action in April against an opponent to be named. Follow her on Twitter @RealDealSerrano.

“I truly believe that if u were born a man, you’re always going to be stronger than a woman. My choice would be no. Just because the testosterone that men have is a big factor. Just saying.”



Maricela Cornejo: Maricela is quickly making a name for herself in the sport. The model/fighter has started her career with a 2-0 record, and next looks to be fighting on May 3 in Las Vegas.

“I am all for doing whatever makes you feel good. If you want to become a girl, then that is your decision. I don’t have a problem with it. But I don’t agree with it when it comes to fighting. If a transgender woman fights, they are going to be stronger than other women, so I don’t think it’s right. There are still advantages they are going to have from having previously been a man that no amount of drugs are going to erase.”




I should only have to post ONE of these. One would be more than sufficient. But here's a whole group of them. It's THEIR sport.

Last I checked, no one in the "Live and Let Live" sorority here was either female, a boxer, or ever had to fight a transgender male.

Read these AGAIN, Beanz. Tell me once again why your presumptions and Ron's "reasoned, sensible and nuanced points" are worth a hill of beans when stacked up against the opinions of women who actually have to step into the ring with transgender boxers. THEN... get back to me. In the meantime, keep your ignorant rants to yourself.

You’re still making a fake argument to excuse trying to steal someone’s rights. Notice not one of those quotes is about a woman being forced to fight a transgender woman. Find one of those and you will have a point. As is all you have is your bigotry. No boxer is forced to fight anyone, ever. But go back to your big book of bigotry for your morals. Steal people’s rights and claim morality.

Did you bother to read any of the quotes? Or like Beanz are you just regurgitating your same old tired argument and attempting to speak for others.... others who happen to be in the sport.

Maybe it's your reading comprehension that needs polishing.

They're being asked if they agree with transgenders in women's boxing, and they mostly say "no."

If you want to split hairs and talk about people not being forced to fight anyone..... go ahead. Common sense rarely penetrates thick skulls.

I'll say this again, in English. Let me know if anything is unclear.

No.... no woman boxer would be forced to fight a transgender. But if it's a mandatory... and it's for a championship... they could be stripped. Would that be fair? Or are you going to vomit the same old tired lines?


If caring about women's safety in boxing is "bigotry", then you'd better go back to grade school and bone up on your definitions. You seem to have a problem with that.

[Spicoli]

Holy hell I'd kill for a Mayweather v Manny II thread right now .

But I'd be interested to see how the question was put to these boxers who are quoted. If its in relation to the actual individual in the thread topic then it's false from jump. A transitioned -woman- is now fighting -men-...not the other way around. No backlash for a born man hitting a born woman though eh. Can anyone show me one single instance of a trans man in a sanctioned boxing match vs a woman. And don't anyone make an Anne Wolfe joke . It's an empty boogeyman. Just one as this is 'boxing talk'. And save all that amateur mma or muey Thai stuff.

[holmcall]

Using "nuanced" is a sure sign to me at least that the user is a _______________ Fill n the blank.

[Beanz]

Using "nuanced" is a sure sign to me at least that the user is a _______________ Fill n the blank.

'native speaker of English'


'lot less likely to jump to conclusions about other posters'


Am i getting close?

'a raving poofter' ?

[TitoFan]

Holy hell I'd kill for a Mayweather v Manny II thread right now .

But I'd be interested to see how the question was put to these boxers who are quoted. If its in relation to the actual individual in the thread topic then it's false from jump. A transitioned -woman- is now fighting -men-...not the other way around. No backlash for a born man hitting a born woman though eh. Can anyone show me one single instance of a trans man in a sanctioned boxing match vs a woman. And don't anyone make an Anne Wolfe joke . It's an empty boogeyman. Just one as this is 'boxing talk'. And save all that amateur mma or muey Thai stuff.

Appreciate the attempt at mediation, Spicoli. Always the level head coming in to defuse the bomb.

However, this is pretty clear cut here. Here's the quote on the question posed:

"We asked some of the top female boxers in the sport for their thoughts on the situation, and if they would feel comfortable stepping into the ring with a woman who was previously a man."



The responses you may have already read.

This isn't some philosophical argument where the question itself might be convoluted and subject to interpretation. This is pretty straightforward. Women boxers/fighters were asked whether would feel comfortable stepping into a ring with a women who was previously a man. Black-white. No gray areas here. This was a yes or no question, and most of them answered pretty clearly.

Now..... Beanz may have a hard-on for everything transgender related. I don't know.... maybe a personal bad experience or something. We'll never know.

But knee-jerk reactions from the peanut gallery, ignorantly throwing around accusations of "sexist" (Swanson) without bothering to read fully into the intent of the targeted comment is just plain foolish.

No way to sugarcoat it, or dance around it.

The long and short of it:

You've got this clique here who will leap "Pavlovian style" on any transgender red meat that gets thrown on the floor. Shoot first... ask questions later. If you erred in your initial reaction..... f*ck it. They had it coming anyway.

Hardly an adult way to conduct a conversation or an argument.



So kudos for attempting to bring down the temperature.... but some things around here are just a bit TOO predictable. These knee-jerk reactions being one of them.

[Spicoli]

Well Tito I appreciate that but in fairness are you not doing the exact same thing with knee jerk and scenarios that do not exist? Not looking to monitor the playground with what I wrote, you're all adults, good heads and will work it out, no worries. But I'm genuinely interested in that the quotes sighted are geared towards a reaction or narrative that isn't applicable in this specific case. The 'situation' is a former woman fighting a man. The quoted boxers don't even recognize that scenario or automatically assume its reversed.

[Beanz]

Thanking a post is a knee jerk reaction?

[TitoFan]

Well Tito I appreciate that but in fairness are you not doing the exact same thing with knee jerk and scenarios that do not exist? Not looking to monitor the playground with what I wrote, you're all adults, good heads and will work it out, no worries. But I'm genuinely interested in that the quotes sighted are geared towards a reaction or narrative that isn't applicable in this specific case. The 'situation' is a former woman fighting a man. The quoted boxers don't even recognize that scenario or automatically assume its reversed.

Here's my first post:


"Women of boxing discuss competing with transgender females"


http://proboxinginsider.com/women-of...ender-females/



Here's the opinion of some of those who actually have to step into the ring with transgender females. Some bravely go with the flow and don't seem to mind... but others emphatically say "no".

I agree with the latter.



Here's my second post:


In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

'Nough said.



From there, I was called "sexist" by that paragon of a poster.... Swanson. Beanz predictably jumps in and thanks him for the insult he hurled at me.

Now... I get it that as Mod your job is to moderate and try and find middle ground or peace.

But where I come from we call a spade a spade.

If someone can feel free to call me a "sexist" based on my opinion that women should not have to fight transgenders, then so be it.

But when I retaliate, it'll be with the kid gloves off.



My only suggestion is that people become better acquainted with the meaning of words before they decide to throw them around like candy. I realize that would be against current Saddo practices.

[Beanz]

Everyone sing along with me..... in a football terrace tune.....

"Swansons got a vag hole, Swansons got a vag hole, la la la la, la la la la"

"Swansons got a.....

It's all fine TitoFan. You have a mod setting a fine example in encouraging those from the sport to carry on posting on the forum. If i get perma- banned again at least It will be a bit clearer why this time.

[powerpuncher]

Most of this comes down to the debate on the decisions of individuals. So if someone who used to be a woman becomes a man and wants to fight men then it seems like most, if not all, agree that that’s up to them. If they are at a disadvantage and want to take the risk then they can do it.

The other side of the argument is if someone who was a man transitions to a woman. Other woman in the sport have the ability to refuse to fight someone transgendered, but there will be consequences for it like losing a title. So basically they are forced to fight. It’s like if I hold a belt to my kids and whip them if they aren’t eating their food. Sure they can technically choose but in reality their choice is made for them.

It would seem that a study would need to be done of some sort to prove that a man that has transitioned into a woman has absolutely no unfair advantage over other women. This isn’t about racism or sexism. This is about safety and fairness. So if it is proven that there is no unfair advantage then I have absolutely no problem with it.

[TitoFan]

Most of this comes down to the debate on the decisions of individuals. So if someone who used to be a woman becomes a man and wants to fight men then it seems like most, if not all, agree that that’s up to them. If they are at a disadvantage and want to take the risk then they can do it.

The other side of the argument is if someone who was a man transitions to a woman. Other woman in the sport have the ability to refuse to fight someone transgendered, but there will be consequences for it like losing a title. So basically they are forced to fight. It’s like if I hold a belt to my kids and whip them if they aren’t eating their food. Sure they can technically choose but in reality their choice is made for them.

It would seem that a study would need to be done of some sort to prove that a man that has transitioned into a woman has absolutely no unfair advantage over other women. This isn’t about racism or sexism. This is about safety and fairness. So if it is proven that there is no unfair advantage then I have absolutely no problem with it.

Thank you.

Maybe now because it's you who said it, everybody will calm down.