The Brexit Thread

[Gandalf]

Your previous posts where you outline economic horror as portrated by an ever dependable British media. Then there was the comment about lots more immigration. It is not as though immigration could be any higher. Have you not seen London lately? It has been colonized.

[Beanz]

Your previous posts where you outline economic horror as portrated by an ever dependable British media. Then there was the comment about lots more immigration. It is not as though immigration could be any higher. Have you not seen London lately? It has been colonized.

Immigration from non EU countries is already higher than that from the EU. Free movement of people is not just an EU or 'lefty' principle it is something already insisted on by the non EU countries we have sounded out as part of trade deals.

That is not 'project fear' from remainers, it is a simple fact. I don't know if being so highly selective with what you read has caused it, or if you are just being wilfully ignorant but the fact is that Brexit itself, and its most hard-line no deal proponents have conducted (and continue to conduct) a campaign based on fear, seems to have passed you by.

Farrages 'Breaking Point' queue of brown migrants, which turned out to be those fleeing Syria between the Croatia/Slovenia border and not entering the UK at all. The bus with the tory political decision not to support the NHS blamed on the EU (we already have US style private doctors surgeries and hospital units run by Virgin ffs within the NHS), all the laws attributed to the EU which turned out to be total hoaxes or UK made rules. It's all project fear.

PJW, Tommeh, Stefan, Etc all your sources of info are all obsessed with 'Project Fear'. So it's not even just Brexit. Fear of women, Fear of the 'other', fear of immigrants, Muslims, political correctness, gun control, feminists, black people, Jews, the 'Fear' drips out of them like a toxic sweat poisoning everything.

And you are worried about people raising facts that question the bullshit you have been sold is motivated by 'project fear'?

Ha!

[Gandalf]

Your previous posts where you outline economic horror as portrated by an ever dependable British media. Then there was the comment about lots more immigration. It is not as though immigration could be any higher. Have you not seen London lately? It has been colonized.

Immigration from non EU countries is already higher than that from the EU. Free movement of people is not just an EU or 'lefty' principle it is something already insisted on by the non EU countries we have sounded out as part of trade deals.

That is not 'project fear' from remainers, it is a simple fact. I don't know if being so highly selective with what you read has caused it, or if you are just being wilfully ignorant but the fact is that Brexit itself, and its most hard-line no deal proponents have conducted (and continue to conduct) a campaign based on fear, seems to have passed you by.

Farrages 'Breaking Point' queue of brown migrants, which turned out to be those fleeing Syria between the Croatia/Slovenia border and not entering the UK at all. The bus with the tory political decision not to support the NHS blamed on the EU (we already have US style private doctors surgeries and hospital units run by Virgin ffs within the NHS), all the laws attributed to the EU which turned out to be total hoaxes or UK made rules. It's all project fear.

PJW, Tommeh, Stefan, Etc all your sources of info are all obsessed with 'Project Fear'. So it's not even just Brexit. Fear of women, Fear of the 'other', fear of immigrants, Muslims, political correctness, gun control, feminists, black people, Jews, the 'Fear' drips out of them like a toxic sweat poisoning everything.

And you are worried about people raising facts that question the bullshit you have been sold is motivated by 'project fear'?

Ha!

1. Yes, and the general public is against it. Immigration is the main topic people want to talk about and solve and it is the one thing the establishment, both Tory and Labour refuse to deal with. The UN itself is now essentially telling nations they must accept migrants and this too is something that needs to be resisted. Ultimately it means Tory and Labour must change or else see new challengers coming through. There is no purpose or use for low skilled workers in an increasingly technological age.

2. I do not consider the leave campaign to have been one of fear. The threats of companies leaving, of massive loss of jobs, etc has come out of the remain camp and this is the kind of information you like to post. Is it not true that the UK is now filled with more than 4 million people from the EU and goodness knows how many more from beyond in a very short space of time? Is it not true that the EU elite are unaccountable? Is it true that a significant number of UK laws are out of its hand? How did that happen from a simple customs union? This is something people simply do not like and simply adding more people and EU dictatorial control is not going to resolve the issue. It will lead to conflict and social disintegration eventually.

3. Your last paragraph is just a stream of consciousness waffle and projection. My sources are the very same source that you will read yourself every day. I just do not buy the narrative and neither do the British people as evidenced by the 52% who simply said 'Yes, we would like to leave the EU'. I don't think they are all listening to Paul Joseph Watson, they are seeing things with their own eyes like I did last year. I just don't have to live with it year in year out.

Is that really such a problem for you? Do you reject democracy? Do you reject the kind of Britain that the majority of British people want? It certainly looks that way.

[Beanz]

You are just deluding yourself by buying into a world of easy simple minded rhetoric. You continue to ignore simple facts and repeat proven lies, rather than engage with anything that might reveal the porkies you have been fed.

[Beanz]

Numbers? Really?

1.Immigration.
This is an unavoidable result of a more connected world. Its what happens to feed capitalisms insatiable greed for profits.

Profits over people.

War for profits at the expense of people creates immigrants.

NON EU immigration is already higher than EU immigration and will continue to grow after Brexit.

So the central tennet of the leave campaigns sermon is a lie. Immigration will rise and from further away. You and the peculiar Europhobic people like Bannon and Trump goading you on will actually increase non white, often Muslim, culturally incompatible immigration. You will tie the hands of white Christian and atheist workers in order to inadvertently create the invasion you dream/fear.

[Beanz]

2.

It matters not what you consider to be this or that.

Fear is the leave campaign's mantra.

The EU is both democratic and accountable while the sovereign Parliament you all pretend is preferable is full of unaccountable elites. Again and again their jobs and parties come before the good of citizens.

They preside over the death of thousands and yet you choose to remain silent and unwittingly conspire with them by deflecting the blame onto Europe.

Most people are not aghast at living amongst Europeans. We are Europeans.

[Gandalf]

2.

It matters not what you consider to be this or that.

Fear is the leave campaign's mantra.

The EU is both democratic and accountable while the sovereign Parliament you all pretend is preferable is full of unaccountable elites. Again and again their jobs and parties come before the good of citizens.

They preside over the death of thousands and yet you choose to remain silent and unwittingly conspire with them by deflecting the blame onto Europe.

Most people are not aghast at living amongst Europeans. We are Europeans.

We are people actually, but we are from different systems with different languages and cultures. You clearly see yourself as European whereas I see myself as British. Maybe this is your foreign heritage talking, but all I know is that I do not speak languages of Europe or have a European passport or a European heritage. I am British.

You appear to be arguing that our own system is not good enough and that somehow a European one makes it better. No. The British elite have got away with cronyism because of the apathy of the British people. It is on them to bring it down through new parties or other forms of action. How do you think a President out here ended up in prison yet you still have Tony Blair, war criminal, walking free still profiting from treason. He sees himself as European too.

It is on the British people to change their own system and the first step is to get away from Europe. We are not Europeans. We are British.

[Beanz]

3.

Its not projection. It is a fact. The negativity runs right through all of it. It is an ideaology revealing it's lack of ideas in it's rhetoric. The submission mantra. It says change is bad, here is the way the world works and when it doesn't it is the fault of everyone outside my cave and has nothing to do with me throwing my crap outside or raining spears down on my neighbours.

'They Turk Er Jerbs' is not an excuse to sink an economy and pretend 48% of a population are 'losers'.

That is the church of lameoid dribblers not a realistic alternative.

[Gandalf]

3.

Its not projection. It is a fact. The negativity runs right through all of it. It is an ideaology revealing it's lack of ideas in it's rhetoric. The submission mantra. It says change is bad, here is the way the world works and when it doesn't it is the fault of everyone outside my cave and has nothing to do with me throwing my crap outside or raining spears down on my neighbours.

'They Turk Er Jerbs' is not an excuse to sink an economy and pretend 48% of a population are 'losers'.

That is the church of lameoid dribblers not a realistic alternative.

Granted, Tories like Boris Johnson and Gove are full of hot air and have no idea what they want. I know what I want though and I believe it is largely a positive thing. It is a country regaining its own sovereignty. Isn't it positive to be a country doing things on your own terms accountable only to the 60 million within your own territory? How is it submissive to regain control of your country? It is the opposite, it is to get back on your own saddle and do the riding yourself.

The populace was never asked if it wanted open borders or to lose sovereignty. They were asked finally if they wanted to be part of it and they said no. Theresa May is being purposely submissive, but she is wrong for doing so and should be playing hard and laying down 'This way or the highway' and if needed to go even further. She is a weak leader and is pro Europe whence what the British are putting up with right now.

This week there will be a Brexit rally and if Brexit is not delivered, then the UK proves yet again that it has no interest in democracy or the will of the people and perhaps that is a good thing to galvanize people further.

Also the idea that we are Europeans. Try telling a Korean that they are Asians and should just be lumped together with nations that occupied them and tried to eliminate their culture. They would not look at you very fondly. They have museums built for their very own Tommy Robinson's and are called patriots.

[Gandalf]

Numbers? Really?

1.Immigration.
This is an unavoidable result of a more connected world. Its what happens to feed capitalisms insatiable greed for profits.

Profits over people.

War for profits at the expense of people creates immigrants.

NON EU immigration is already higher than EU immigration and will continue to grow after Brexit.

So the central tennet of the leave campaigns sermon is a lie. Immigration will rise and from further away. You and the peculiar Europhobic people like Bannon and Trump goading you on will actually increase non white, often Muslim, culturally incompatible immigration. You will tie the hands of white Christian and atheist workers in order to inadvertently create the invasion you dream/fear.

Excessive immigration is a political choice and goes against the desires of the general population. It is not unavoidable, it is simply that the two party tyranny refuses to alter course and control it. When is enough enough for you? You already know that the financial cost of immigration is heavy as documented by Murray. People were never asked and the consequence is a drain on the economy or else the loss of jobs that locals can be doing.

Profits over people? It is just 3 words. You will need to construct a better argument. I do not follow.

Are you suggesting that 4.2 million people came from Europe as the result of war or more truthfully because their countries are poor and they could profit more handsomely from the UK? Then there are those from beyond Europe who indeed cost money.

People from Pakistan or India have little to do with war. Even those that are from war zones are not the responsibility of the British people who were always against the wars.

Non EU migration will only rise under a Labour/Tory monopoly. Things can change very quickly when you make enough people angry. Labour and Tory are both very unpopular right now and people seem to want an end to them both. Both are against the will of the people. That does not get away from the fact that people want an end to immigration. The fact that Labour and Tory will betray them does not avoid that fact.

Nice to tie me in with Bannon and Trump when all I argue is for democracy and controlled borders. This is why I would endorse Ukip or For Britain rather than ever consider the two parties that have ruined a great country.

There is only ever a need for moderate incremental immigration on a temporary visa based system for specific jobs. Anything more is unreasonable and against the wishes of the populace.

[Beanz]

Ukip?

Miles you are better than that. Hells bells😁