The Brexit Thread

[Gandalf]

The EU is neo liberalist. Labour obviously played its part in Brexit by collapsing the economy and simultaneously letting in millions of people thus unsettling people and the Tories of course just carried on as they refused to do anything. And lest we forget the people were never consulted on the mass movement of people. That was not right and that along with the undemocratic nature of the EU is why anti EU candidates will likely sweep the board. Patriotism is to reject rule from beyond British soil. Most MP's including the vast majority in Labour seats want to be part of something the British people do not.

New Labor was massively anti immigration not pro, they wanted to appear tougher than the tories. It is still very funny on the day we ..not you mate...we are going to vote for Members of the European Parliament you are telling us how undemocratic it is while Westminster drags it's feet and fucks people over with their intransigence. Labour is split about 60/40 very much like the referendum but reversed. So don't pretend that democracy is about serving only the portion of the electorate you agree with. That is hugely dishonest. It is also part of this modern bury your head in the sand and pretend the American binary way of dealing with political and social issues is the way forward. It isn't. I don't understand what you have against unions and working together, co-operation, the pooling of knowledge and resources in the interests of everyone?

I am not supporting the bureaucratic or neo liberal aspects of the EU anymore than I would those of a British MP in London. What the fuck has London ever done for me or my community? Most of the retaining of important cultural things that make Britain what it is has had to be forced thru by Europe. Here, everything from the preservation of the Cornish language to the building of the Eden Project preserving the environment and representing the county globally, The huge fish market at Newlyn, support for the unemployed to get people into work and small business' all happened because of the EU not Westminster.

And I am not arguing for remain go back to the first post in this thread and stop putting words in my mouth. I voted remain because i believe in community change and reform from within but if people want to leave then so be it.


But where is their plan ? and don't just parrot WTO, that is far more globalist and open to corruption than that which you seek to replace. You have not thought it through at all.

Whatever happens we have to deal with Europe and the EU so sort it out and not by playing into the hands of globalists like you always do. PJW has a frickin world map behind him for Christs sake. It is lauaghable. Benjamin is there because he plays the American card he panders to that audience. So does Farrage and he birthed UKIP, made them, so you cannot disavow him or pretend his ethos of taking backhanders is not at the heart of it still.

Do you still not see? these alternative voices you are behind are on the same side as the Neo Cons you think you are opposing . You are supporting not just that kind of thinking but it's activities in the Middle east ETC by ignoring that FACT.

1. How can you say that Labour under Blair was 'massively anti-immigration' considering the numbers I will link to below and the words of politicians of the time who have admitted that the plan was to increase the voting base. It doesn't seem to have worked for them, but it certainly has increased immigration in less than 2 decades by an estimated 6-8 million. Officially.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/sta...ion-statistics

2. I don't think I have argued against Unions, so I cannot comment on that.

3. I think the vote was to the general public and I wish more votes were in referendum or proportional representation form as it gives a more honest and democratic account of what people actually want. There is no denying the inverse relationship between parliament and the general public.

4. I do not believe that I am being dishonest. Having just agreed to be more civil, let's not immediately start calling one another liars. I simply think that a referendum is democratic and that if you win, you win. If you lose, you lose. I don't see the Scotland referendum losers continue to drag their heels bringing Scotland to a standstill until they get what they want. However, the EU has a history of doing just that. It does not respect democracy.

5. It is on the people of the UK to force London politics into a system of accountability. By rejecting proportional representation for example, that was a classic case of cutting a nose off to spite the face. FPTP is a terrible system and has to go. However, the EU is undemocratic, takes away sovereignty, would not allow nationalization without a fight, and borders remain unchecked. Without parliament as sole power, then NOTHING can change. At least with less power extension, the British people know where the MP's are and can fight tooth and nail for what they want. If they want to.

6. Why does there need to be a plan? The EU is against the constitution of the UK. Just leave and leave on the UK's own terms. What is the EU going to do exactly? Half of its constituent members are extremely poor countries and in the case of Greece treated extremely poorly. Do you really endorse being part of a system that acts like that? That forces youngsters to leave as there are no jobs? That turns young women to selling their bodies for a few Euro's out of desperation? Sorry, but I don't really think a disconnected Euro elite is very responsible when it does that.

7. When will it be audited?

8. When will it stop operating in secret?

9. You can rant about your pet hates, but at the end of the day you are supporting a system that thinks it has the right to do what it likes such as letting in millions of unvetted people some of whom have carried out horrific crimes. I don't think that is very responsible or fair.

[Beanz]

The EU is neo liberalist. Labour obviously played its part in Brexit by collapsing the economy and simultaneously letting in millions of people thus unsettling people and the Tories of course just carried on as they refused to do anything. And lest we forget the people were never consulted on the mass movement of people. That was not right and that along with the undemocratic nature of the EU is why anti EU candidates will likely sweep the board. Patriotism is to reject rule from beyond British soil. Most MP's including the vast majority in Labour seats want to be part of something the British people do not.

New Labor was massively anti immigration not pro, they wanted to appear tougher than the tories. It is still very funny on the day we ..not you mate...we are going to vote for Members of the European Parliament you are telling us how undemocratic it is while Westminster drags it's feet and fucks people over with their intransigence. Labour is split about 60/40 very much like the referendum but reversed. So don't pretend that democracy is about serving only the portion of the electorate you agree with. That is hugely dishonest. It is also part of this modern bury your head in the sand and pretend the American binary way of dealing with political and social issues is the way forward. It isn't. I don't understand what you have against unions and working together, co-operation, the pooling of knowledge and resources in the interests of everyone?

I am not supporting the bureaucratic or neo liberal aspects of the EU anymore than I would those of a British MP in London. What the fuck has London ever done for me or my community? Most of the retaining of important cultural things that make Britain what it is has had to be forced thru by Europe. Here, everything from the preservation of the Cornish language to the building of the Eden Project preserving the environment and representing the county globally, The huge fish market at Newlyn, support for the unemployed to get people into work and small business' all happened because of the EU not Westminster.

And I am not arguing for remain go back to the first post in this thread and stop putting words in my mouth. I voted remain because i believe in community change and reform from within but if people want to leave then so be it.


But where is their plan ? and don't just parrot WTO, that is far more globalist and open to corruption than that which you seek to replace. You have not thought it through at all.

Whatever happens we have to deal with Europe and the EU so sort it out and not by playing into the hands of globalists like you always do. PJW has a frickin world map behind him for Christs sake. It is lauaghable. Benjamin is there because he plays the American card he panders to that audience. So does Farrage and he birthed UKIP, made them, so you cannot disavow him or pretend his ethos of taking backhanders is not at the heart of it still.

Do you still not see? these alternative voices you are behind are on the same side as the Neo Cons you think you are opposing . You are supporting not just that kind of thinking but it's activities in the Middle east ETC by ignoring that FACT.

1. How can you say that Labour under Blair was 'massively anti-immigration' considering the numbers I will link to below and the words of politicians of the time who have admitted that the plan was to increase the voting base. It doesn't seem to have worked for them, but it certainly has increased immigration in less than 2 decades by an estimated 6-8 million. Officially.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/sta...ion-statistics

2. I don't think I have argued against Unions, so I cannot comment on that.

3. I think the vote was to the general public and I wish more votes were in referendum or proportional representation form as it gives a more honest and democratic account of what people actually want. There is no denying the inverse relationship between parliament and the general public.

4. I do not believe that I am being dishonest. Having just agreed to be more civil, let's not immediately start calling one another liars. I simply think that a referendum is democratic and that if you win, you win. If you lose, you lose. I don't see the Scotland referendum losers continue to drag their heels bringing Scotland to a standstill until they get what they want. However, the EU has a history of doing just that. It does not respect democracy.

5. It is on the people of the UK to force London politics into a system of accountability. By rejecting proportional representation for example, that was a classic case of cutting a nose off to spite the face. FPTP is a terrible system and has to go. However, the EU is undemocratic, takes away sovereignty, would not allow nationalization without a fight, and borders remain unchecked. Without parliament as sole power, then NOTHING can change. At least with less power extension, the British people know where the MP's are and can fight tooth and nail for what they want. If they want to.

6. Why does there need to be a plan? The EU is against the constitution of the UK. Just leave and leave on the UK's own terms. What is the EU going to do exactly? Half of its constituent members are extremely poor countries and in the case of Greece treated extremely poorly. Do you really endorse being part of a system that acts like that? That forces youngsters to leave as there are no jobs? That turns young women to selling their bodies for a few Euro's out of desperation? Sorry, but I don't really think a disconnected Euro elite is very responsible when it does that.

7. When will it be audited?

8. When will it stop operating in secret?

9. You can rant about your pet hates, but at the end of the day you are supporting a system that thinks it has the right to do what it likes such as letting in millions of unvetted people some of whom have carried out horrific crimes. I don't think that is very responsible or fair.

Numbers? Really?

1. You have linked not to evidence but to an advocacy group that argues for increased restrictions on immigration to the United Kingdom founded by Lord Green of Deddington, a former British ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

Let that sink in while you do the toffs/Deepstate/Glaobalist/Corporate Monsters work for them

2. The EU for all its faults is unsurprisingly given it's name a union. It is this principle of co-operation whether it is embodied in communities or between workers or countries you argue against as though workers are not really workers unless you put a label on them

3. Again you are arguing that the slice of cake you want to eat has nothing to do with the cake it was cut from. If you vote UKIP or Brexit then you are pretending that your meaningless vote never happened in order to again play make believe and pretend the EU election you just voted in is not democratic.

4. What i actually said was "So don't pretend that democracy is about serving only the portion of the electorate you agree with. That is hugely dishonest."

It was your argument and not you I was calling dishonest much like the massive American voices (Bannon etc) who are begging for a no deal Brexit when they have no belief in democracy at best they want a republic but actually something more like a dictatorship. This is why Brexiteers will think nothing of calling the EU Nazis while they seek to silence any argument but extremist stances and refuse to partake in democracy

5. This is a classic example of a nonargument and you taking yourself out of what makes no sense. We have had 3 years of seeing how less accountable Parliament is then even the EU. And again you blame migrants instead of those who refuse to change in British politics. Watch the Yannis video before you smash up stuff like a hooligan for the sake of 'borders' and 'Sovreignty' like some imaginary feudal lord of the manor.

6. Most of this is borderline racist bullshit with no grounding in reality. It doesn't mean you are a racist but you aren't half doing their work. Lazy stereotyping. I have worked in Europe. My family often work in Europe. None of us are part of a Euro elite class. Not even just work. Science, education, Cultural exchange these pathways and networks are entrenched and valuable and you want to tear them up. What a vandal. Brother in law working in Spain right now and my own younger brother just come back from teaching in a German Uni. You just buy lies by the barrel load of dodgy blokes in Thanet.

7. It is audited but should be overhauled. Watch the Yanis video.

8. Again you just made that up. You even post videos of debates on here. The secrets of Nige etc meanwhile are whitewashed by you

9. This time this is actually you being dishonest. How is singing the praises of the counties I love me ranting about my pet hates? You are inverting reality. It is a positive thing I am celebrating but you are intent on hating it. And then to add insult to injury you agin make crap up and suggest I am supporting letting in illegal immigrants or are somehow despite working in the CJS am pro crime. The most insidious thing though is your use of lanuguage. You insinuate that they are millions of unvetted criminals responsible for horrific crimes 'let in' by the EU when you know the majority of migrants are not criminals at all. Propaganda mate and again no reasonable arguments at all.

I have never said or thought the simplistic things that you suggest or made the easy to destory strawman arguments you are inventing. It's not debate really is it?

[Master]

Isn’t it ironic that the main parties that want no deal Brexit or are against everything it stands for are going to end up in the place they despise and hate yet will gladly pick up their pensions and salary from there?

[Gandalf]

1. You wanted numbers I gave you numbers. Are the numbers not to your liking? Millions have undeniably flooded the country. Fact.

2. The EU is a trading group, it was never supposed to be about free movement of people. There was no people's vote on this.

3. These elections should not even be happening.

4. I believe in a British nation state and not a European superstate.

5. Only British people can push for democracy in the UK. The EU is illegitimate and immoral.

6. It is not racist to say that Greece was hardballed and treated unjustly. It is not racist to say that Romania is an economically poor country.

7. Show me data, rather than videos. I am doing a Kirkland.

8. Prove me wrong. Those debates are for show. When TTIP was being pushed it was in secret. Free Julian Assange!

9. Your pet hates are the people you consistently vilify.

The points are simple because I am going to bed. Go Britain!

[El Kabong]

If the EU IS about "the free movement of people" then why are "the freely moving people" in question seemingly from the Middle East and Africa? I get that there's plenty of poorer Eastern Europeans moving as well, but at least those folks are European and if their nations are in the EU then perhaps that's what it was all for....but it seems to me (from the outside of course) that migrants from the Middle East and Africa get to 1 EU nation and then "freely move" to the EU nations with the best benefits.


Or is all that extremely cynical and not the case at all?

[Beanz]

If the EU IS about "the free movement of people" then why are "the freely moving people" in question seemingly from the Middle East and Africa? I get that there's plenty of poorer Eastern Europeans moving as well, but at least those folks are European and if their nations are in the EU then perhaps that's what it was all for....but it seems to me (from the outside of course) that migrants from the Middle East and Africa get to 1 EU nation and then "freely move" to the EU nations with the best benefits.


Or is all that extremely cynical and not the case at all?

Yes that is extremely cynical not the case at all.

And the EU is not just about the free movement of people, not at all. It is not about poor eastern Europeans either. It is very weird when people say stuff like that as though there are not thousands of people from well off civilized countries working all over Europe with each other like they have for hundreds of years. There is a ferry to France and a Ferry to Spain only a few miles from here and people use them not just for holidays but to go and work in Europe like Europeans do here. Many of whom start businesses that employ British people.

The idea that the EU is only about poor eastern Europeans and migrants from the Middle East and Africa is a useful narrative perpetuated by those who want to capitalise on fear and the scapegoating of migrants etc.

[El Kabong]

Yes that is extremely cynical not the case at all.

And the EU is not just about the free movement of people, not at all. It is not about poor eastern Europeans either. It is very weird when people say stuff like that as though there are not thousands of people from well off civilized countries working all over Europe with each other like they have for hundreds of years. There is a ferry to France and a Ferry to Spain only a few miles from here and people use them not just for holidays but to go and work in Europe like Europeans do here. Many of whom start businesses that employ British people.

The idea that the EU is only about poor eastern Europeans and migrants from the Middle East and Africa is a useful narrative perpetuated by those who want to capitalise on fear and the scapegoating of migrants etc.

Nobody is saying that international businessmen don't exist, I certainly didn't say anything of the sort.




In the video there a few things I'll have to look at...1. The old man sea captain saying migrants come to Spain and immediately make more than a retired person (a claim I find dubious on it's face) 2. the old man refugee helper saying that migrants come to Spain but don't stay (If they don't stay then where do they go?) 3. "Spain's fragile Socialist government" (I know how the Democrats in America attempt to shore up their voting base.....you add more voters any way you can and people ALWAYS vote for Santa Claus so when politicians are very generous with other people's money that is a way to lock up reelection)



but again, I'm not there I just see things, I read things, I ask questions, and I know how things work in America and I compare and contrast.

[Gandalf]

Numbers? Really?

1. You have linked not to evidence but to an advocacy group that argues for increased restrictions on immigration to the United Kingdom founded by Lord Green of Deddington, a former British ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

Let that sink in while you do the toffs/Deepstate/Glaobalist/Corporate Monsters work for them

2. The EU for all its faults is unsurprisingly given it's name a union. It is this principle of co-operation whether it is embodied in communities or between workers or countries you argue against as though workers are not really workers unless you put a label on them

3. Again you are arguing that the slice of cake you want to eat has nothing to do with the cake it was cut from. If you vote UKIP or Brexit then you are pretending that your meaningless vote never happened in order to again play make believe and pretend the EU election you just voted in is not democratic.

4. What i actually said was "So don't pretend that democracy is about serving only the portion of the electorate you agree with. That is hugely dishonest."

It was your argument and not you I was calling dishonest much like the massive American voices (Bannon etc) who are begging for a no deal Brexit when they have no belief in democracy at best they want a republic but actually something more like a dictatorship. This is why Brexiteers will think nothing of calling the EU Nazis while they seek to silence any argument but extremist stances and refuse to partake in democracy

5. This is a classic example of a nonargument and you taking yourself out of what makes no sense. We have had 3 years of seeing how less accountable Parliament is then even the EU. And again you blame migrants instead of those who refuse to change in British politics. Watch the Yannis video before you smash up stuff like a hooligan for the sake of 'borders' and 'Sovreignty' like some imaginary feudal lord of the manor.

6. Most of this is borderline racist bullshit with no grounding in reality. It doesn't mean you are a racist but you aren't half doing their work. Lazy stereotyping. I have worked in Europe. My family often work in Europe. None of us are part of a Euro elite class. Not even just work. Science, education, Cultural exchange these pathways and networks are entrenched and valuable and you want to tear them up. What a vandal. Brother in law working in Spain right now and my own younger brother just come back from teaching in a German Uni. You just buy lies by the barrel load of dodgy blokes in Thanet.

7. It is audited but should be overhauled. Watch the Yanis video.

8. Again you just made that up. You even post videos of debates on here. The secrets of Nige etc meanwhile are whitewashed by you

9. This time this is actually you being dishonest. How is singing the praises of the counties I love me ranting about my pet hates? You are inverting reality. It is a positive thing I am celebrating but you are intent on hating it. And then to add insult to injury you agin make crap up and suggest I am supporting letting in illegal immigrants or are somehow despite working in the CJS am pro crime. The most insidious thing though is your use of lanuguage. You insinuate that they are millions of unvetted criminals responsible for horrific crimes 'let in' by the EU when you know the majority of migrants are not criminals at all. Propaganda mate and again no reasonable arguments at all.

I have never said or thought the simplistic things that you suggest or made the easy to destory strawman arguments you are inventing. It's not debate really is it?[/QUOTE]

In a little more detail. One by one as numbers are a good method of organizing points.

1. It doesn't matter who Lord Blah Blah is, the point is that immigration has been very high and that for many years people have been getting more and more upset by it. The UK is for British citizens and not the world, so it does matter when millions upon millions pour in and especially during a period of economic turmoil thus causing division, depressing wages, and burdening the welfare system.

2. The EU was supposed to be a trading bloc, not a new Empire as it is rapidly turning into with completely open borders within and seemingly beyond. I disagree that it is a union of communities as Italy is very different to the UK and the UK very different to Spain. We can all get on of course, but we are different and should respect that. It is a community of economic exchange and it is appalling that the borders were opened as they were. I think there is something to be said for maintaining cultures and nation states rather than dissolving them. I think this is where you and I differ. I do not see myself as European. I am English and by extension British. I will never be European as in being akin to an Italian or a French person. I have nothing against Italy, but I am not an Italian and an Italian is not English. This strange unifying badge of European is a fake and imposed one. By ideologues.

3. These elections should not even be taking place and you know it. Labour and Tory have both held the country. Short of an uprising, protest voting is the only alternative. The elite are not going to obey their public thus they need to fall and Jeremy Corbyn campaigned to stay and must fall too. May is a walking corpse at this stage ready for a retirement home.

4. I have nothing to do with Bannon. I simply believe in an independent nation state and always have. A nation state that the people, an active populace, holds to account regularly.

5. Not sure I mentioned smashing anything up there, but this is why the people must continue to avoid the Labour/Tory false option. Sure, Corbyn is alright, but his party are basically Tories in Red. Both parties have to disappear at this stage. It is time for something entirely new. However, it must not cave like the Greeks and hold strong and forge good ties with the world. A nation has the right to sovereignty. It should not be a mafia. The elite are scared and cowardly and do not want to leave. How can a remainer be negotiating to leave? Of course it makes no sense. Off with all of them.

6. Nope, I speak facts. Check out the welfare conditions and minimum wages in different European countries. Economically some are better than others. There is no denying that some countries are a better option than others. If Romania was so great, then why are Brits not flooding there in their millions. You know the answer and it is not in racist old me.

7. I would love to see the figures.

8. You know that is not made up. Hardly transparent, right?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-10456206.html

9. No, I say you hate on people who are not fascists or far right by calling them just that. I know as you do it to me too and I am hardly far right and you know that.

[Beanz]

Ban numbered responses.

Fuck me it is not the class room.

My immediate neighbour is Italian as is his wife. I myself have worked in Milan for 6 months once.

It is pretty relevant when you take the Thatcherite view that there is no such thing as community.

It sums up your entire ethos.

Nationhood above everything else and to the detriment of both individuals and communities.


You keep quoting statistics from clearly biased and invested group led by agenda driven aristocrats, Corporate giants, bent businessmen and corrupt politicians and then demanding that I deny and ignore any personal experience, or the experiences of anyone I may know whether they be relatives, friends or work colleagues. It is made even more ridiculous by the fact that you do not live and work in either the UK or Europe but you are so eager for your narrative to be presented as the truth about a situation you have no experience of and nothing to gain or lose from. A bit like the Troy, UKIP and Brexit part candidates who live in France, Spain etc and are demanding a no deal Brexit.

Crazy Stuff.

[Gandalf]

Ban numbered responses.

Fuck me it is not the class room.

My immediate neighbour is Italian as is his wife. I myself have worked in Milan for 6 months once.

It is pretty relevant when you take the Thatcherite view that there is no such thing as community.

It sums up your entire ethos.

Nationhood above everything else and to the detriment of both individuals and communities.


You keep quoting statistics from clearly biased and invested group led by agenda driven aristocrats, Corporate giants, bent businessmen and corrupt politicians and then demanding that I deny and ignore any personal experience, or the experiences of anyone I may know whether they be relatives, friends or work colleagues. It is made even more ridiculous by the fact that you do not live and work in either the UK or Europe but you are so eager for your narrative to be presented as the truth about a situation you have no experience of and nothing to gain or lose from. A bit like the Troy, UKIP and Brexit part candidates who live in France, Spain etc and are demanding a no deal Brexit.

Crazy Stuff.

I don't give a damn. I lived in the same house as an Italian for several years. Nice enough chap, but he was not English and I am not Italian.

You deny statistics just as you deny any evidence based around Tommy Robinson. You cannot reason with someone that denies data.

I have lived in many more parts of the UK than you have and know plenty of people from many different countries. You live in a provincial mostly white middle class town with very little migration and no grooming. Go and live in London for a few years or go and live in Manchester for a few years and get back to me. Otherwise I really do think you are in a bit of a bubble yourself.

[Gandalf]

In fact I spent nearly as much time in the North East of England as Robinson just last year. When was the last time you walked around Longsight?

[Beanz]

Ban numbered responses.

Fuck me it is not the class room.

My immediate neighbour is Italian as is his wife. I myself have worked in Milan for 6 months once.

It is pretty relevant when you take the Thatcherite view that there is no such thing as community.

It sums up your entire ethos.

Nationhood above everything else and to the detriment of both individuals and communities.


You keep quoting statistics from clearly biased and invested group led by agenda driven aristocrats, Corporate giants, bent businessmen and corrupt politicians and then demanding that I deny and ignore any personal experience, or the experiences of anyone I may know whether they be relatives, friends or work colleagues. It is made even more ridiculous by the fact that you do not live and work in either the UK or Europe but you are so eager for your narrative to be presented as the truth about a situation you have no experience of and nothing to gain or lose from. A bit like the Troy, UKIP and Brexit part candidates who live in France, Spain etc and are demanding a no deal Brexit.

Crazy Stuff.

I don't give a damn. I lived in the same house as an Italian for several years. Nice enough chap, but he was not English and I am not Italian.

You deny statistics just as you deny any evidence based around Tommy Robinson. You cannot reason with someone that denies data.

I have lived in many more parts of the UK than you have and know plenty of people from many different countries. You live in a provincial mostly white middle class town with very little migration and no grooming. Go and live in London for a few years or go and live in Manchester for a few years and get back to me. Otherwise I really do think you are in a bit of a bubble yourself.

I live in a poor city. It most certainly is not middle class and neither am I. There are council houses on the opposite side of my street and i was born and brought up on a council estate. I have lived in caravans and even a tent for a while. I have lived and worked all over the UK including London. You assume to much. The point is you do not live here and have not for many years. I voted in the referendum and voted in the EU elections yesterday. You did neither and yet like many people who are not living here you seek to not only dominate the conversation but to dismiss anyone with a different view than your fantasy.

There are many, many immigrants in my city. From all over the world. We are a naval port form which people like Scott, Darwin, Cook atc left to explore the world. You like most Northerners think the South West is like The South East and it is not. There is huge poverty here and in both counties.

I can also assure you i have met, talked, sat down, volunteered and lived with many more of the people you demonize than you can imagine. I don't think that makes my opinion more valid than yours but it sure as hell is more informed.

[Gandalf]

It is 96% white and is hardly suffering like some of the cities of the North. I lived for years in Manchester and freelanced around places like Salford. That is or certainly was poverty stricken and the social problems immense.

I have a friend here from where you are and a few of us from the North tease him about it as we have seen and heard things he couldn't dream about. Armes robberies are no laughing matter. Car radios stolen. People stabbed. The works.

I have lived in 8 cities in the UK and met people from all parts of the country and indeed the world such are the perks of life on the road.