The Brexit Thread

[Beanz]

The EU is neo liberalist. Labour obviously played its part in Brexit by collapsing the economy and simultaneously letting in millions of people thus unsettling people and the Tories of course just carried on as they refused to do anything. And lest we forget the people were never consulted on the mass movement of people. That was not right and that along with the undemocratic nature of the EU is why anti EU candidates will likely sweep the board. Patriotism is to reject rule from beyond British soil. Most MP's including the vast majority in Labour seats want to be part of something the British people do not.

New Labor was massively anti immigration not pro, they wanted to appear tougher than the tories. It is still very funny on the day we ..not you mate...we are going to vote for Members of the European Parliament you are telling us how undemocratic it is while Westminster drags it's feet and fucks people over with their intransigence. Labour is split about 60/40 very much like the referendum but reversed. So don't pretend that democracy is about serving only the portion of the electorate you agree with. That is hugely dishonest. It is also part of this modern bury your head in the sand and pretend the American binary way of dealing with political and social issues is the way forward. It isn't. I don't understand what you have against unions and working together, co-operation, the pooling of knowledge and resources in the interests of everyone?

I am not supporting the bureaucratic or neo liberal aspects of the EU anymore than I would those of a British MP in London. What the fuck has London ever done for me or my community? Most of the retaining of important cultural things that make Britain what it is has had to be forced thru by Europe. Here, everything from the preservation of the Cornish language to the building of the Eden Project preserving the environment and representing the county globally, The huge fish market at Newlyn, support for the unemployed to get people into work and small business' all happened because of the EU not Westminster.

And I am not arguing for remain go back to the first post in this thread and stop putting words in my mouth. I voted remain because i believe in community change and reform from within but if people want to leave then so be it.


But where is their plan ? and don't just parrot WTO, that is far more globalist and open to corruption than that which you seek to replace. You have not thought it through at all.

Whatever happens we have to deal with Europe and the EU so sort it out and not by playing into the hands of globalists like you always do. PJW has a frickin world map behind him for Christs sake. It is lauaghable. Benjamin is there because he plays the American card he panders to that audience. So does Farrage and he birthed UKIP, made them, so you cannot disavow him or pretend his ethos of taking backhanders is not at the heart of it still.

Do you still not see? these alternative voices you are behind are on the same side as the Neo Cons you think you are opposing . You are supporting not just that kind of thinking but it's activities in the Middle east ETC by ignoring that FACT.

1. How can you say that Labour under Blair was 'massively anti-immigration' considering the numbers I will link to below and the words of politicians of the time who have admitted that the plan was to increase the voting base. It doesn't seem to have worked for them, but it certainly has increased immigration in less than 2 decades by an estimated 6-8 million. Officially.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/sta...ion-statistics

2. I don't think I have argued against Unions, so I cannot comment on that.

3. I think the vote was to the general public and I wish more votes were in referendum or proportional representation form as it gives a more honest and democratic account of what people actually want. There is no denying the inverse relationship between parliament and the general public.

4. I do not believe that I am being dishonest. Having just agreed to be more civil, let's not immediately start calling one another liars. I simply think that a referendum is democratic and that if you win, you win. If you lose, you lose. I don't see the Scotland referendum losers continue to drag their heels bringing Scotland to a standstill until they get what they want. However, the EU has a history of doing just that. It does not respect democracy.

5. It is on the people of the UK to force London politics into a system of accountability. By rejecting proportional representation for example, that was a classic case of cutting a nose off to spite the face. FPTP is a terrible system and has to go. However, the EU is undemocratic, takes away sovereignty, would not allow nationalization without a fight, and borders remain unchecked. Without parliament as sole power, then NOTHING can change. At least with less power extension, the British people know where the MP's are and can fight tooth and nail for what they want. If they want to.

6. Why does there need to be a plan? The EU is against the constitution of the UK. Just leave and leave on the UK's own terms. What is the EU going to do exactly? Half of its constituent members are extremely poor countries and in the case of Greece treated extremely poorly. Do you really endorse being part of a system that acts like that? That forces youngsters to leave as there are no jobs? That turns young women to selling their bodies for a few Euro's out of desperation? Sorry, but I don't really think a disconnected Euro elite is very responsible when it does that.

7. When will it be audited?

8. When will it stop operating in secret?

9. You can rant about your pet hates, but at the end of the day you are supporting a system that thinks it has the right to do what it likes such as letting in millions of unvetted people some of whom have carried out horrific crimes. I don't think that is very responsible or fair.

Numbers? Really?

1. You have linked not to evidence but to an advocacy group that argues for increased restrictions on immigration to the United Kingdom founded by Lord Green of Deddington, a former British ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

Let that sink in while you do the toffs/Deepstate/Glaobalist/Corporate Monsters work for them

2. The EU for all its faults is unsurprisingly given it's name a union. It is this principle of co-operation whether it is embodied in communities or between workers or countries you argue against as though workers are not really workers unless you put a label on them

3. Again you are arguing that the slice of cake you want to eat has nothing to do with the cake it was cut from. If you vote UKIP or Brexit then you are pretending that your meaningless vote never happened in order to again play make believe and pretend the EU election you just voted in is not democratic.

4. What i actually said was "So don't pretend that democracy is about serving only the portion of the electorate you agree with. That is hugely dishonest."

It was your argument and not you I was calling dishonest much like the massive American voices (Bannon etc) who are begging for a no deal Brexit when they have no belief in democracy at best they want a republic but actually something more like a dictatorship. This is why Brexiteers will think nothing of calling the EU Nazis while they seek to silence any argument but extremist stances and refuse to partake in democracy

5. This is a classic example of a nonargument and you taking yourself out of what makes no sense. We have had 3 years of seeing how less accountable Parliament is then even the EU. And again you blame migrants instead of those who refuse to change in British politics. Watch the Yannis video before you smash up stuff like a hooligan for the sake of 'borders' and 'Sovreignty' like some imaginary feudal lord of the manor.

6. Most of this is borderline racist bullshit with no grounding in reality. It doesn't mean you are a racist but you aren't half doing their work. Lazy stereotyping. I have worked in Europe. My family often work in Europe. None of us are part of a Euro elite class. Not even just work. Science, education, Cultural exchange these pathways and networks are entrenched and valuable and you want to tear them up. What a vandal. Brother in law working in Spain right now and my own younger brother just come back from teaching in a German Uni. You just buy lies by the barrel load of dodgy blokes in Thanet.

7. It is audited but should be overhauled. Watch the Yanis video.

8. Again you just made that up. You even post videos of debates on here. The secrets of Nige etc meanwhile are whitewashed by you

9. This time this is actually you being dishonest. How is singing the praises of the counties I love me ranting about my pet hates? You are inverting reality. It is a positive thing I am celebrating but you are intent on hating it. And then to add insult to injury you agin make crap up and suggest I am supporting letting in illegal immigrants or are somehow despite working in the CJS am pro crime. The most insidious thing though is your use of lanuguage. You insinuate that they are millions of unvetted criminals responsible for horrific crimes 'let in' by the EU when you know the majority of migrants are not criminals at all. Propaganda mate and again no reasonable arguments at all.

I have never said or thought the simplistic things that you suggest or made the easy to destory strawman arguments you are inventing. It's not debate really is it?