Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?

[TitoFan]

TBH, I find the OP question a little naive (no offense, Miles).

It's the equivalent of the question: "Did you stop beating your wife, yes or no?"

Being poor is not a choice for a great many people.

Sure, your points (Miles) about fatherless families where the mother gives birth to 10 children is totally accurate and well received. I agree 100%. It puts a needless burden on society and at this point it's inconceivable that women without much to contribute to society would be spitting out kids by the dozens. It's irresponsible, especially when usually the plan is that "Well....... the government will take care of us."

But that's only a certain segment of society. Sure, a very big segment, but it cuts across all races and ethnic groups.

You know who's really at fault, IMO? The governments.

Governments that lazily draw up welfare plans and implement them just as carelessly are entirely to blame. They make it possible for people to FREELOAD as much as they possibly can. Generations upon generations decide to live off the government and of course have as many kids as they can, as the number of kids is many times rewarded under these systems. Governments have f*cked society up as royally as possible.

So little Johnny (I always use that name ) is born from a single black mother in the tough neighborhoods of Detroit, one of 10 kids born to this woman. They all live in the projects. They all live off food stamps, welfare, and whatever the mom can scrounge off the streets. Going to and staying in school is the first major challenge little Johnny is going to have to make. Just making it through grade school will be a challenge. The nearby public school is probably crime-ridden, teacher attendance is poor, and the lure of drug trafficking looms large as the way to some good, easy money. Let's say by some miracle Johnny makes it through the 12th grade. What chance does he have for a college or even a trade school education, all of which costs money? What grants are there available? Who's going to loan him money? By this time, all of Johnny's friends are either dead, or living the good life dealing drugs. Tough position to be in, is it not? What percentage of these kids actually make it through a post-high school education and make something out of themselves? I doubt anyone here has come from that background, and it would be interesting to see how each of us would deal with odds like that.

So asking "why do people stay poor" is in effect a superficially-sounding question that makes it seem like you're at Baskin Robbins choosing between chocolate or vanilla. It's not quite that simple.

[Gandalf]

True, Tito but if I branch out and bring in IQ and things of this nature it tends to get even more argumentative, but Beanz seens to be looking for a fight. I have my own thoughts on why all too many cannot get ahead and it boils down to being a bit thick, maybe crappy choices and being full of vice. People generally choose their poverty in the West, but a lack of nurturing certainly plays a part in making that happen too.

The question is really for others as my own conclusions are a bit grim and bad news. I want to hear other ideas just to see what gets thrown out.

[Gandalf]

Will address your points tomorrow if I have time. Your posts always seem to catch me at night.

[TitoFan]

You're in SK (12 hours apart?) so it's a miracle we're ever online at the same time.

When you DO address my post, please tell me what you make of little Johnny's choices about being poor or not. Granted, it's Johnny's mom spitting out kids and holding out her hand for the welfare checks. But Johnny himself... what REALISTIC choices does he have?

Also, the more I think about it, the more I blame governments. Lazy, dumbass people who insist on putting Band-aids where stitches were needed. They're at the core of our societal problems.

[El Kabong]

Could be bad luck, could be poor planning, could be a misunderstanding of the way the system works, could be somebody stole from you and put you in a hole you can't climb out of.


I think a lot of it has to do with A#1 being able to refrain from the Veruca Salt mentality "I want it now" and delay gratification and #2 not getting yourself into massive debt to begin with and the main culprits of that are A ) COLLEGE and B ) CREDIT CARDS ......and I'd also say Debit Cards don't help either from a psychological perspective it's not like a transaction with cash where you count the bills out and receive change it's just numbers on a card which are easier to lose track of.



Financial IQ is uncommon sense these days and ever since the government took control of student loans look at where the tuition prices have gone and value for money fucking forget about it college degrees are more and more worthless.

[Gandalf]

Could be bad luck, could be poor planning, could be a misunderstanding of the way the system works, could be somebody stole from you and put you in a hole you can't climb out of.


I think a lot of it has to do with A#1 being able to refrain from the Veruca Salt mentality "I want it now" and delay gratification and #2 not getting yourself into massive debt to begin with and the main culprits of that are A ) COLLEGE and B ) CREDIT CARDS ......and I'd also say Debit Cards don't help either from a psychological perspective it's not like a transaction with cash where you count the bills out and receive change it's just numbers on a card which are easier to lose track of.



Financial IQ is uncommon sense these days and ever since the government took control of student loans look at where the tuition prices have gone and value for money fucking forget about it college degrees are more and more worthless.

Two solid arguments there. After years of schooling and no financial education, what do schools do? They say 'You must go to University for your future'. You have no idea what you want to be and suddenly an adult child is now signed up to tens of thousands of debt and banks throwing cards and overdrafts out like confetti. That's somewhat dangerous and good schooling and parenting would have educated the child about those things. It doesn't happen.

I like the Salt analogy. I cannot believe anyone in the US would study in the humanities and come out 200,000 dollars poorer. Quite surreal.

[Dia bando]

Were it went simple enough to many people willing to live on benefits.
Many round my area where professional benefit cheats working on the side breeding a house full of kids one dipstick told me he could not work he had a bent finger and that prevented him from working mind you he could fuck he had 6 kids plus cleaning windows on the side.
There were many more to speak of what happened the genuine people who were disabled had to suffer because of this work shy bunch.
Poverty stuck in a rut etc there is work out there if people can be assed to look.
You would be amassed how work shy some people are I know people who a professional alcoholics I kid you not paid to stay at home and drink Worlds a fucked up place.

[Gandalf]

TBH, I find the OP question a little naive (no offense, Miles).

It's the equivalent of the question: "Did you stop beating your wife, yes or no?"

Being poor is not a choice for a great many people.

Sure, your points (Miles) about fatherless families where the mother gives birth to 10 children is totally accurate and well received. I agree 100%. It puts a needless burden on society and at this point it's inconceivable that women without much to contribute to society would be spitting out kids by the dozens. It's irresponsible, especially when usually the plan is that "Well....... the government will take care of us."

But that's only a certain segment of society. Sure, a very big segment, but it cuts across all races and ethnic groups.

You know who's really at fault, IMO? The governments.

Governments that lazily draw up welfare plans and implement them just as carelessly are entirely to blame. They make it possible for people to FREELOAD as much as they possibly can. Generations upon generations decide to live off the government and of course have as many kids as they can, as the number of kids is many times rewarded under these systems. Governments have f*cked society up as royally as possible.

So little Johnny (I always use that name ) is born from a single black mother in the tough neighborhoods of Detroit, one of 10 kids born to this woman. They all live in the projects. They all live off food stamps, welfare, and whatever the mom can scrounge off the streets. Going to and staying in school is the first major challenge little Johnny is going to have to make. Just making it through grade school will be a challenge. The nearby public school is probably crime-ridden, teacher attendance is poor, and the lure of drug trafficking looms large as the way to some good, easy money. Let's say by some miracle Johnny makes it through the 12th grade. What chance does he have for a college or even a trade school education, all of which costs money? What grants are there available? Who's going to loan him money? By this time, all of Johnny's friends are either dead, or living the good life dealing drugs. Tough position to be in, is it not? What percentage of these kids actually make it through a post-high school education and make something out of themselves? I doubt anyone here has come from that background, and it would be interesting to see how each of us would deal with odds like that.

So asking "why do people stay poor" is in effect a superficially-sounding question that makes it seem like you're at Baskin Robbins choosing between chocolate or vanilla. It's not quite that simple.

Firstly, I agree that the question has a naive edge to it. It was mainly as I wanted an open question with people free to chime in as they liked. I also thought it would be fair to erase the racial element as people of any race can be poor, only statistically it effects some races more than others.

I agree with you completely that government has enabled and encouraged this behavior. Having children without planning or consideration is rewarded. I have seen it in my own life back home and it is generational and will continue. I hate to sound harsh but there comes a point when the tap of generosity needs to be shut down. It results in the smartest, most fiscally responsible people having fewer children and the least able having the most children and this is a very unhealthy trajectory.

I agree with your points about Johnny. He is going to have a very hard time making good decisions. He has never been able to see any alternative and thus the patterns will continue and he can cry about slavery all he likes, but his own mother put him into that environment and she did not consider the outcomes.

We are in an age of me and I feel as though children get used like commodities among the poor sometimes.